True pachanoi or PC pachanoi?

[Philocacti]

So I asked the owner of this cactus what it is and he told me it's PC pachanoi, but somehow it doesn't seem to look like any PC I've seen.

I'm supposed to receive 2 pups of it

What do you guys think?

[Philocacti]

Hey Nemisty, it looks stunning

I can easily sit for hours staring at such a beauty

Thanks for sharing these pics my friend

[magical9]

oh my those are so gorgeous! i WISH i could get legit Pachanoi like that.I just cant find it yet.

[mutant]

Philocacti I have probably the same NZ pachanoi, this is a fine pachanoi specimen and definately different to my pachanoi KK336, also a fine clone.

Ozzie pachanois purchased from SAB "ALF" and "OMAR" look a lot like PC, I am still not totally sure they're not it, but they probbly arent. OMAR is also the first tricho that flowered on my roof.

[Philocacti]

Yeah, I really like the looks of KK336, I'm going to try to provide more shade on my roof, as you advised me so my cacti green up a bit and grow faster, although I'm sure this will compensate with their girth.

I'm going to try the 30% shade cloth

[M S Smith]

Here's some more proper pachanoi, this one from Huaca Pucllana in Lima, Peru.

~Michael~

[Philocacti]

So how do you define "proper"?

It's kind of strange that some columns of the same batch are spineless while the others have long spines.

I can't say if it's more confusing or if it's clearer that this pachanoi/peruvianus issue different species or just different "hybrids" of one big species.

It's a beautiful specimen

[M S Smith]

I suppose "proper" simply means not "PC".

I suspect there are two different genes pools in those photos. The one with the sign on it does look like a different plant, but I don't believe that such differences in spination mean differences in species, especially when some columns of T. pachanoi can have both long spines and sections with nearly no spines. But then again I think T. pachanoi and T. peruvianus are the same species.

Not the clearest picture, but check out the base on this T. pachanoi in Vilcabamba, Ecuador.

~Michael~

[Philocacti]

Yeah the one with the tag seems like different individuals, but what do you think about the the 1st pic?, the spineless column looks identical to the one behind it, which has spines. Do you think it's one individual displaying different phenotypes?

I'm. to sure what you're trying to point out in the last pic but all I see at the base is how woody it got.

[M S Smith]

Yeah, a single plant, even a single limb can show various spination. It the last pick I was just stunned by the girth. I wonder how old that thing is.

~Michael~

[Philocacti]

Looks ancient, I wouldn't know but I'd say it's older than 150 years or so

[mutant]

hey this looks like a peruvianus. fatter, less branches,

[magical9]

my god that is a gorgeous tricho MS Smith.

[M S Smith]

How about this one?

~Michael~

[mutant]

nice bougainvilias , where the cactus? of there I see it.

hey did I tell you that my "pachanois" are not really blue?

what you showed is so blue... can can that not be a peruvianus??

I love it, its getting more and more complicated..

problem here is probably I dont have many proper pachanois, and moreover I am overpropagating my cacti..

kk339 and NZ pachanoi are nice, but are pretty spineless... I have yet ot see a pachanoi with long spines...

(KK339 does longer spines in the base, but much much later) - NZ pachanoi, the spines are even shorter

and these , along with every other "pachanoi" are definately faster than any of my "peruvianus" , which are definately BLUE

how can some say its the same species, when they have so much difference in puping tendency and much faster growth speed?

please help here....

[mutant]

so smith you still think pc might be a pach bridgesii hybrid?

I remember you commenting on SAB clone named "2" , as interesting, looking like a pc, but with a different phenotype, maybe more peruv?

[M S Smith]

You wouldn't say dogs weren't the same species because they were different color, sizes, or shapes would you? T. peru is the wolf, T. pachanoi the dog, and of course there are dogs that run the full gamut from husky to chihuahua. Because the most similar plants to the PC are T. roimizquensis and the strange plants of Cochabamba, both of central Bolivia, I suspect the PC has either been lost in habitat or quite possibly is some form of these two or a hybrid of one or the other. I have to admit that I am interested in seeing hybrid T. bridgesii x T. scopulicola, the former from norther Bolivia and the latter from the south of the county. I would at least say that the PC has its origins in Bolivia, buts that's just speculation you can accept or deny as you see fit.

~Michael~

Edited February 7, 2014 by M S Smith

[Optimystic]

I think americas PC is more likely a scop cross than anything

but im sure there's a few look alikes by now.. I have some

that look like a skinny version of PC and don't seem to fatten

up and grow much slower

has anyone else noticed that PC Pach is less cold hardy

than just about everything else?

[hostilis]

I've heard the opposite. That it's more cold hardy than most clones.

[Optimystic]

yeah I heard the opposite as well....

then I left a few dozen trichos outdoors in a hoophouse this year...

4 times (4 cold spells of 1-several days with low temps below freezing, we got below 20F/-6C maybe 6 or 7 nights in total... the first winter spell was one was 3 days straight frozen solid but the plants were pretty well protected from moisture) so far and the only ones to freeze solid are PCs.. not all of the PCs did but one thick one and a few small ones

I brought most of them in I was planning to repot and/or graft to and then winter kicked in and I was like fuckit lol

then shit happened and i didn't see my plants for nearly 3 weeks!

in fairness, the first one to freeze didnt get covered the first winter spell, and I thought since they so hardy maybe wouldnt need it...I had simply run out of blankets and t shirts and though oh well its a pc lol... but she changed color that night...

was still protected from moisture just without a blanket or a styro cup over the tip, but then when I left thing in the hands

of someone else, more recently, they didn'n't cover the plants one bitter cold night a couple weeks ago, and only those PC's froze solid everything else handled it okay.. I did have some smaller pc's do okay, and also a thinner pc-like plant that didn't freeze solid but snapped at the base.. its possible that they got weakened cause i let them get rained on one extra time but that was

way at the beginning of winter but before the first freezing spell

I suppose it could be because the ones that froze came from a tropical location and were accustomed

to temps above freezing all year ... in my case PC's were the only ones to turn into popsicles...

particularly PC's that I obtained from ppl in tropical zones..

a lumberjack snapped in half but I saved a little tip... I had a few skinny

plants bending over but usually where the neck was skinnny was where any

issue happened but nothing fatal...one larger non pc pachanoid had 2 out of 3 tips get freeze burned

otherwise im really surprised how well most of the plants handled a few winter spells... most of them

had nothing more than some yellow spots from being covered... even after the hoophouse got torn to shit

they did okay wrapped in wool blankets with a tarp over them... but they went at least one freezing night

without any protection... today the snow melted so I'll know soon enough, but I know what they've already

been through and thus im worry free, other than one large 3 foot 4 inch thick PC that had a huge rotted

spot before I covered her again ..

shrugs

Edited February 8, 2014 by Spine Collector

[Philocacti]

I have to admit that I am interested in seeing hybrid T. bridgesii x T. scopulicola

~Michael~

This is "super pedro X psycho0"

[mutant]

Thanks Michael.