Growing psychotria under ideal artificial conditions

[gneumatics]

Gday there.....

How is everybody going? I was wondering if I might be able to get some advice on the best methods to grow some p.nexus (p.viridis x p.carthagenensis cross) within an artificial environment (I live in a cold climate so this is a must). I would say that I am a novice gardener (at best) and unfortunately my last couple of p.nexus's I managed to get hold of last year didnt make it Probably due to low temperature and being moved around and re-potted more times then they should have.

So I have decided to give it another go this year and really try to give it my best shot and I was hoping that I might get some help and/or advice from those wiser then myself in how I'm planning of going about growing these little guys. Is there anything that you are able to see below in my method which could be perhaps be done better or something that might really screw me up that I'm simply not aware of? Here are the details...

Plant size: I am assuming they will be around the 8 inch/20cm mark (going on how large they were when I last had them delivered at the same time last year).

Soil: soil mixture comprised of 1/3 perlite, 1/3 humus and 1/3 coco-peat plus ¼ of a cup limestone per 1 gallon (4 liters) of mix.

Growing area: 2ft x 2ft (60cms x 60 cms) enclosed space with painted white walls.

Light type: 4 x 18w T8 6500k fluorescent tubes placed 8 inches/20cms from the tips.

Light Intensity: The light meter I grabbed from the gardening store reads 200 at the base of the pots to around 300 at the tips of the plants. (I'm guessing the measurement is lumens here?).

Light Cycle: 16hrs on and 8 hrs off (set by a timer to ensure cycle is constant from day to day).

Watering Times and Type: Twice weekly with tap water. Once on Monday which will be a full watering (Adding water, allowing it to drain and then adding water again this time with fertilizer) and again on Thursday night which will be a half watering (simply adding water and allowing it to drain).

Fertilizing: Liquid fertilizer to be used once weekly with the full watering (as directed on the packaging), and Seasol once fortnightly with the full watering and liquid fertilizer (once again as directed by the packaging). Or would I be better off with pellets or mixing manure into the soil mix? If so how much and what type? Or would this be over fertilizing considering I already have humus in the soil?

Humidity: Spraying twice daily with a spray bottle using standard tap water.

Temperature: Aiming to keep as close to a constant 25 degrees Celsius as possible with the help of a small oil heater. (Do people think this will lower the humidity too much?).

Fan: fan placed on low and oscillating to promote stronger roots. (Not sure if this is necessary, does the wind even blow in the jungle?).

Pot Size: Standard plastic 8 inch pots (20 cms).

Pests: Food grade diatomaceous earth for fungus gnats (placed on the top layer of soil).

Once again, any help you might throw me, as small or as important as it might be would be very greatly appreciated Cheers...

… G

Edited April 13, 2012 by gneumatics

[Foo]

With ferts i like to mix it up. I use use a bit of what ever ive got.

Liquid, manure, slow release ect. Ive always thought that "the reckomended amount" is the most you can give plants without killing them (I.E sell as much as we can) so i almost never use the full amount.

I dont have a Pychotria factory though.

[Sallubrious]

If they are indoors and the house doesn't turn into an icebox midwinter they should be OK. If it gets really cold maybe consider some bottom heat.

The fan could dry them out a bit in cool dry conditions, sometimes a good shaking once or twice a day will toughen them up and you won't get the drying effect from a fan.

It's got to be better than leaving them outside to fend for themselves in a Melbourne winter, especially if they are coming from a warmer climate.

Here's a pic of a box of Nexus I have going, they all came from two leaves donated by a fellow member here. I also have another pot of stragglers that came from the same two leaves. These ones are in a plastic box with 8 holes @ 40 mm diameter covered with micropore tape and they are going well.

They get fuck all air exchange other than through the micropore tape or when I open the lid.

[Sallubrious]

I forgot to mention mine are growing under a home-made 50 watt SMD LED fixture which is an array of 5050 cool white LEDS for half of the day, the other half of the day they get filtered sunlight.

[gneumatics]

Nice looking plants Elf Hunter!

I wonder if 50 watts of led translates into 50 watts of fluoro? I am starting to think that the 74 watts I have of fluoro lighting might not be enough for the 2 ft x 2 ft space I'm planning to grow in :/

Since this post I've actually been told to keep away from coco-peat and it makes the soil too damp. As well as no lime (due to ph) and the use of an ultrasonic humidifier instead of spraying. Does anybody have an experience with this?

[whitewind]

Nice looking plants Elf Hunter!

I wonder if 50 watts of led translates into 50 watts of fluoro? I am starting to think that the 74 watts I have of fluoro lighting might not be enough for the 2 ft x 2 ft space I'm planning to grow in :/

Since this post I've actually been told to keep away from coco-peat and it makes the soil too damp. As well as no lime (due to ph) and the use of an ultrasonic humidifier instead of spraying. Does anybody have an experience with this?

 

Someone's been giving you good advice! Ditch the coco peat, don't add lime unless you have tested the pH and it comes out low, and go with a humidifier.

Don't use a fan, if you are worried about stability shake like SallyD says, the fan might just dry and burn.

I've noticed Psychotria viridis doesn't mind being kept in smaller pots, but larger pots when small can actually inhibit growth. They are pretty drought as well as moisture tolerant, and like to dry out a bit periodically, so I would put in the smallest size pot possible for now and be prepared to water more frequently. I would alternate feeding with seasol and feeding with gogo juice, and add a very light sprinkling of osmocote once established.

As far as lights go, 300 lux is enough but 500 lux might be a little better. Also, a light cycle probably isn't necessary unless you are trying to induce flowering. There is light wavelengths as well as intensity to think about here, but I can't remember much about this as I only use natural light.

I would filter your tap water, just in case it is high in lime content (pH). It will help filter chlorine and other weird things too, which might not be a problem at first but may build up over time.

Happy growing!

[johnnyzero64]

I've had Psychotria Viridis leaves in soil in small pots since maybe November '11. they've got good roots but no pups yet. i've recently planted a few more leaf cuttings, this time I'm leaving the small pots in closed plastic bags (indirect sunlight, indoors) and maybe the higher humidity will get pups to sprout?

Yesterday I noticed 2 tiny pups emerging from a leaf I've got in soil outside, 5 months after taking the leaf cutting, and now in Winter! They are in a draghty greenhouse though.

Edited May 2, 2012 by johnnyzero64

[Sallubrious]

I've had Psychotria Viridis leaves in soil in small pots since maybe November '11. they've got good roots but no pups yet. i've recently planted a few more leaf cuttings, this time I'm leaving the small pots in closed plastic bags (indirect sunlight, indoors) and maybe the higher humidity will get pups to sprout?

 

I'd say you're right about the lack of humidity.

Low overnight temps won't help much now winter is almost here. A heat mat or tray would help too.

[Sallubrious]

Nice looking plants Elf Hunter!

I wonder if 50 watts of led translates into 50 watts of fluoro? I am starting to think that the 74 watts I have of fluoro lighting might not be enough for the 2 ft x 2 ft space I'm planning to grow in :/

 

A rough guide for light level is to use watts per square foot. 74 watts divided by 4 square feet = 18.5 watts per sq foot which is a bit on the low side, try to aim for at least 20 watts per sq foot for psychotria, preferably 25 watts per sq foot or higher.

I actually prefer fluorescent lights but they don't penetrate the canopy as well. so for larger plants with lots of leaves sometimes they might need some supplementary lighting down lower once they get over about 25 cm tall. A strip of SMD LEDs would be good for that purpose, maybe warm white to balance the spectrum out a bit and up your wattage to a better level.

Either that or high output T5 fluoros.

Edited April 14, 2012 by SallyD

[gneumatics]

Thanks for the tips guys!

Whitewind, what kind of soil would u suggest for indoors then? %60 perlite and %40 humus maybe?

And maybe 6 inch pots to start with might be the way to go then?

SallyD, Do recommend any particular brand or vendor for grabbing SMD LED's?

[Sallubrious]

I haven't tried many to be honest.

I've only dealt with an ebay vendor going by the name of HKLED

[.dg]

you say 1/4 cup limestone, what kind?

did you test the soil's ph?

[glimpse]

I'm no expert but I think my outdoor ones like it best when its nice and hot'n'sweaty so maybe if you can keep the humidity up when the cooler weather comes

[Chef's Foreskin]

Only time will tell I guess!?

[gneumatics]

I've decided to go with the link listed here as a lighting solution ....

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HYDROPONICS-T5-FLUORO-PROPAGATION-4-X-55W-LAMP-/220874846723?pt=AU_Seed_Starting_Hydroponics&hash=item336d2ab203

For those who might be reading once this link is no longer active the link is a 4 x 55 watt T5 fluoro with a 60cms x 50cms reflector.

I'm planning on removing 2 of the tubes which should give me 27.5 watts per square foot + %20 (for the increase of power from T8 to T5) which equals 33 watts per square foot of output.

This might be a little too high so I might just raise the lights up a little until I get 500 lux at the tips.

dg420: I am no longer going to use limestone as I am led to believe it will screw up the ph too much.

[whitewind]

Whitewind, what kind of soil would u suggest for indoors then? %60 perlite and %40 humus maybe?

And maybe 6 inch pots to start with might be the way to go then?

 

That mix would be better, I still keep hearing stories about how coco peat can still be high in salts too, though I'm sure the better brands have that problem sorted by now. The 6inch pots would be good too, I would even consider 5inch if the roots fit comfortably, at least until they are established.

[Sallubrious]

They should go well under that light.

I looked at that the other day and couldn't decide between that and 2 tube model for a similar price. I thought it may be a bit overkill, but it would be versatile. Being able to slip a tube in or out if needed would be handy.

That last potting mix would be OK particularly for the cooler months, but in warmer weather it could dry quite fast. Mixes with a lot of perlite are hard to over wet and they hold a good moisture balance but they go dry very fast. It depends what you call humus too, to me humus is a sticky rich dark substance almost like clay in some respects, most commercial humus products are just half composted leaves and fibrous stuff still in a state of decay.

A good quality potting mix should be OK, I know some are better than others though and they can vary from batch to batch, I'd be tempted to try a few different mixes and compare the results.

I think whitewhind is on the right track, pot size is very important. Don't go too big or the plant won't have the correct wet/dry cycle.

[gneumatics]

The humus I have came in a 30 litre bag from the local nursery and is labeled 'humus plus'. Its actually been sitting in an open bag in a back shed for a year and feels a lot drier then when i first bought it. Not sticky at all. Do you think I'd be better off getting some fresh (living micro organisms etc) or doesn't this really matter?

I'm thinking about heading towards a %33 perlite, %33 humus, %33 cactus soil mix at this stage based on what a forum member has recommended over at forums.ayahuasca.com but I might try replacing the cactus soil with regular high quality potting mix as well as a %60 perlite %40 hummus mix and see which makes the little guys smile more.

[gneumatics]

Ok, so I'm trying to decide which humidifier is going to be best for my purposes. The choice is between an ultrasonic cool mist humidifier and a regular warm mist humidifier ...

The ultrasonic cool mist link is as follows

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HoMedics-Home-Ultrasonic-Cool-Mist-Room-Air-Humidifier-Glow-Light-BRAND-NEW-/330711045762?pt=AU_Home_Environmental_Solutions&hash=item4cffea1682

... and the warm mist...

http://au.jtote.com/product_info.php/two-speed-settings-hm5082tg-p-129313

I'm leaning towards the warm mist as I assume it will raise the temperature of the room and give a more balmy 'tropical' like environment. However I have read that people generally get the ultrasonic cool mist humidifiers. Are there any advantages to the ultrasonic cool mist humidifiers over the regular warm mist that people have experienced? Greater relative humidity? better coverage maybe? Lower power consumption?

[RyanVolle]

this is just a theory 'cuz i haven't really done this type of thing

it's in a controlled environment.

do you need humidity? why not mist them?

about the lighting, it might be very helpful not to place the light too near to the plant

i'm sorry i can't help very much. what does the P. in p. nexus stand for? maybe i can gather sources

[Sallubrious]

He's talking about Psychotria nexus Volle

I'd prefer not to have a humidifier going too, the condensation would make a real mess if the growing chamber isn't made of suitable materials. Mould could become a problem too.

The plants will be hardened off to drier environment without a humidifier and would adapt better to outside conditions when planted out down the track.

The humidifier would be great until the plants are over their transplant shock, but after that I'd wean them off it and let them adapt to a drier environment.

[gneumatics]

Yup, Psychotria nexus. If you can find any info on the best way to grow these little guys it would be great to add to the collection here, for myself and others who might be interested in following the same path as me. The thing is that this forum (as well as forums.ayahuasca.com) are really the ONLY place that I have come across that give detailed and reliable information (at least on the net). I'm sure anybody with a good education in tropical plant cultivation would know this stuff inherently, but I certainly do not fit into that category.

The humidifier: This is my first experimentations with using one but my thinking is that I would like to mimic their natural environments as closely as possible. I do worry about keeping fungal growth at bay and also at the state of my wooden closet after the this little experiment but I'm prepared to make sacrifices if I can get a deeper understanding into how psychotria ticks.

... G

Edited April 18, 2012 by gneumatics

[Nosf3ratu]

Hi there, I replied to you post over at AE but thought I'd throw my reply up here as well just in case anyone else was interested.

I'm in much the same boat as you. Novice gardening skills and also trying to grow p. nexus in a cold environment.

Whilst mine have been growing a bit slower than I anticipated, they are growing and healthy nonetheless. I have them potted in 1/3 course sand, 1/3 perlite and 1/3 good quality potting mix. They are in a small plastic hothouse/humidity tent I purchased from a local hardware store, it sits on my verandah and gets about 2-3 hours of direct sun per day, then filtered sun/shade for the rest of the day. It's approx. 1.8m high, 1.0m wide and 0.6m deep. The pots sit on the top shelf.

I have been watering them a couple of times a week, maybe every 2 days if it has been really hot and down to 1 watering a week if it has been cold/cloudy. I have been fertilizing with liquid fish emulsions (as per instructions on bottle) roughly every 1-2 weeks. The brand I am using has an N:P:K of 10:2:6. I have tried foliar feeding a couple of times, by mixing half-strength fish emulsion into a spray bottle and spraying the undersides of the leaves. I try to flush the pots out by watering heavily and letting them drain at least once in between the ~fortnightly fertilizing.

Even inside the plastic hothouse I have been misting once daily. Humidity usually sits between 60-90% and temperatures range from around 14 degrees C up to 40 degrees C on hot days (I usually open the plastic up or even take the pots out when it gets close to 40C until it cools down a bit in there. Currently at 10pm it is 17C and 93% humidity inside the hothouse.

I had early infestations of mealybugs but these were quickly dealt with using insecticide. I would have preferred to use something organic like Neem oil but at the time I only had access to insecticide and the bugs were doing some serious damage. They recovered well and I have not had any attacks since.

Some of the plants have put out lots of pairs of small leaves while the others have only put out a few pairs but these leaves have grown much larger and more quickly than the others.

[gneumatics]

Great to hear from someone who's going through the same process as me and good thing you posted here as I'd pretty much given up on AE as the response rate isn't anywhere near as high as here at SAB.

How do you gauge the best time to water? soil dampness? As mine aren't actively growing I've been instructed to humidify more and water less so thats what I'm doing.

I've also had large differences in humidity reading from locally bought Hygrometers. Some say %60 and others say %95 (I have three so far). I think its time to bite the bullet and actually spend some money on something that will give me a reasonable amount of accuracy.

... G

[Nosf3ratu]

I'll usually water a bit after the surface soil dries out. Otherwise I'm just going by feel. Once I left it a bit too long and didn't water for maybe 4-5 days during a warm spell. All the leaves wilted but perked back up within and hour or so after a good, heavy watering.

My humidity meter is also pretty cheap so I don't doubt that there are inaccuracies, at least it gives a bit of an indication. Now that it is starting to get colder I've been watering much less, once or twice a week as the humidity is supposedly above 90% most of the time according to my meter.

Hope you start getting some good growth soon!