nabraxas Posted July 26, 2005 excellent article the quest for the Immortalhood; through exercise, meditation & medication---not too different from shamanism, maybe? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nabraxas Posted July 29, 2005 quote: In the same book, Ma discusses the importance of maintaining this extremely simple lifestyle: "A person of the Tao must not dislike being poor. Poverty is the foundation of nurturing life. If hungry, eat one bowl of rice gruel. If you become sleepy, spread out a grass mat. Pass the days and nights in tattered garments. Such is truly the lifestyle of a person of the Tao. Therefore you must understand that the single matter of pure immaculateness cannot be acquired by the wealthy." (35) By saying "poverty is the foundation of nurturing life", Tan-yang is implying that his lifestyle of poverty not only helps erase the desires and attachments that hinder enlightenment, but is also conducive to health. "Pure immaculateness" or "purity and stillness" refers to a state of mind that is completely free of desires and attachments; and the term can also have definite physiological implications. In explaining why his sect laid such importance on maintaining an ascetic lifestyle, Liu Ch'ang-sheng pointed to the fact that the great enlightened men of old times were ascetics: "Accomplished men of old, wanting to distance themselves from the dreams and mirages (the impermanent and illusory world), took on the outer appearances of fools. The Confucian Yen Hui (one of Confucius' best disciples) was pure and poor and [owned only] a rice bucket and a drinking gourd. The Buddhist Sakya [the historical Buddha, Gautama Siddhartha] begged for food and took one meal [per day] by [begging from] seven [different] households. The Taoist [Lu] Ch'un-yang was non-active. He lived like a quail (had no permanent home) and ate like a baby bird [ate only what was given to him without complaint like a baby bird receives the food given to it by its mother]." (36) any thoughts on that? how does that compare to Jesus saying "it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven"? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mescalito Posted July 29, 2005 and I thought I was just a poor scumbag Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flash Posted July 29, 2005 Jesus said that? Sheesh. These passages describe the principal of Taoist humility; mentally trying to acquire wealth is a mind state of desire for profit. The Taoist practice to dispel these desires through humility in ones self and socially. Taoists do strive for an austere lifestyle, not entirely practical in this day and society, the minimising or extinguishing of physical and mental desire not only leads to inner peace and self-knowledge but also teaches valuable lessons in humility, thus bringing you closer to enlightenment. Also a reason for taking the appearance of a fool is to be overlooked and underestimated, thus giving an unseen advantage and secrecy (Art of War). The teachings of Confucius and his disciples were written during a war torn period from invasion and different dynasties. The towns people would not be suspicious of a beggar lingering in the town market especially if the beggar (spy) was thought a fool. Here the principle of “non action” does not apply. Quote(theory and practice)Ch'uan-chen Taoisim. I allow people around me to laugh and say, 'You stupid, lazy bum!" Is there anybody who knows who I am?” To which part of the beast must you first tie a thread before pushing it through the eyelet? For merely pushing the camel through would seem purposeless... Hmm..... fair comparison. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nabraxas Posted July 30, 2005 mesc---yeah, it's nice to give subsistance living a spiritual veneer. flash---thanks for your insight. what do you make ov the Toaist search for immortalhood? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flash Posted July 30, 2005 Ok here goes… There are a few differing ways of interpreting “the Immortal” depending on who’s teachings you adhere to, this is how I understand it. (short version) The living Immortal Description: pure and still, the already accomplished. Image: The serpent before shedding its skin.(meaning before death or transcending) State: a Sage or Tao master having prepared properly and successfully Summary: when a Sage has reached this stage successfully an immortal may choose to make it’s presence felt or known, offer teachings or an audience in heaven (nature itself not biblical heaven), set a task or meditation to complete in order to become more immortal or gain powers and insights. Footnote: herbs and potions are also believed in some Tao sects to provide a path to immortality in the physical body. The transcended Immortal Description: A shadow, trickster, the teacher who will appear when the student is ready. Image: the serpent shed its skin and transcended into heaven leaving only its skin or body on earth. State: a Sage having completed his earthbound duties in preserving the Tao. Description: This master has physically died and transcended becoming Immortal in spirit. He is a shadow in essence in that unlike a mortal he has no body to project a shadow from blocking ambient light (sun) he conceals his light becoming a shadow and remains hidden to those not worthy. Footnote: Also the immortal has attained a state of kind of melding opposites into one – he is here as if he were absent, he lives as if he were dead. A word on Tao alchemy The inner alchemy procedure is based on Taoist principals to prolong life with a view or goal of immortality; this alchemy involves meditation to produce a symbolic elixir within the physical body. If interested, Lü Tung Pin may provide further information as he is considered the healer or medicine man of the immortal Taoists, even today people still use the system of yarrow sticks to diagnose ailments and refer herbal remedies. On a personal level I do not strive to this goal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nabraxas Posted August 1, 2005 flash---i'm struck by the similarities between the immortals & the bodisatvas, & the subtle differences too. have you read any Mantak Chia? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flash Posted August 1, 2005 Nab... i have not studied healing Tao,Quigong or tai chi. And are aware of some principals only.I can only assume a Bodisatvas is an immortal or enlightened Buddhist-Hindu maybe? Possibly you can offer insight here? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spiders Posted August 1, 2005 I find Taoist ideas quite interesting - really enjoyed and have re-read many times Tao Te Ching and some other texts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nabraxas Posted August 2, 2005 what is a bodhisattva the tao te ching as a martial arts manual Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flash Posted August 2, 2005 Bluemeanie – yeah it just makes sense eh, the Tao Te Ching is a great piece of work. Try this next time you pick it up: think of a particular problem or question that you Want enlightenment or wisdom on – flick to any page in books 1 or 2 Lao Tzu and relate it to your question, you may find you still get an appropriate answer .. spooky! Nebraxas- cheers for the link, I see what ur saying. There seems to be a lot of links between the Tao and Buddhism in general. Martial art teachings flow well with either of these religion/philosophy even Goju Kai a martial art earlier practiced for several years, maybe it’s a discipline thing? Both require heaps of discipline and commitment to progress. Traditional Goju Kai precepts: We are proud to study the way of Goju Ryu. We are courteous in manners We are humble but strong We cultivate the spirit of co-operation We respect the Budo spirit of traditional martial arts. BTW Nabraxas…. To which religion or philosophy do you subscribe to most if I may ask? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nabraxas Posted August 3, 2005 BTW Nabraxas…. To which religion or philosophy do you subscribe to most if I may ask? --that's a really difficult question to answer. you are right that there seem to be many similarities between buddhism & taoism. there are also similarities w/the bakti yoga side ov Hinduism (which ov course buddhism grew out ov). i guess i subscribe to the physical practces ov each ov those religions, but try not to get too lost in their philosophies. the one school that i do have some time for is the Nyingmapa branch ov Tibetan Buddhism. particularly their dzogchen practices. Dzogchen 4 dying Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flash Posted August 3, 2005 Interesting link, going to need some time to read n absorb the concepts. Bardo & bonpo relate well to this discussion too as far as similarities. Thx for sharing Nab [ 03. August 2005, 10:44: Message edited by: Flash ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nabraxas Posted August 4, 2005 one ov the interesting things about bonpo is the claim that they recieved their teachings from a wondering monk from a Central Asian land of Olmo Lung-ring, otherwise known as Shambhala. The actual place maybe a fantasy, but the practical similarities suggest that bonpo grew out ov contact w/buddhism way before Padmasambhava eventually brought tantra to the whole ov Tibet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
