violence as spirituality

[Thelema]

recently i have come to regard nihilism as the ultimate in self-awareness, and have come to regard violence as the ultimate way in which to show and share to the world its truth.

Violence is the ULTIMATE force against overwhelmce by the GOD PRINCIPLE, the last and dying bastion of the "I AM" before and betwixt the suffocations of the "I AM NOT" and the "I AM OTHER".

I would like others to join me in my experiment, and post here about violent actions against others, or to ones-self, and the corresponding psychological ramifications that result.

whoops, gotta go, someone has just smashed in my door.

[nabraxas]

whoops, gotta go, someone has just smashed in my door. ---are you joking? or was that the first reaction to you showing the world it's truth?

i tend to agree that you need to destroy before you can create, & like Jean Genet there is a passion for destruction.

i've seen too much self inflicted violence--from self mutilation, piercings, tatoos to smoking cigarettes, to see any worth in it other than the feeble afirmation ov "individuality".

on the subject ov nihilism, this poem has stuck in my mind for nearly 20 years---

"I am not an Anarchist in your sense of the word:

your brain is too dense for any known explosive

to affect it.

I am not an Anarchist in your sense of the word:

fancy a Policeman let loose on Society!

While there exists the burgess, the hunting man, or

any man with ideals less than Shelley's and self-

discipline less than Loyola's-in short, any man

who falls far short of MYSELF-I am against

Anarchy, and for Feudalism.

Every "emancipator" has enslaved the free."

--pretty sure you'd know that one Thelema

[rkundalini]

viddy me droogs

[ramon]

Why and how do you fight something (GOD PRINCIPLE) which according to your personal philosphy ( nihilism ) doesn't exist.

[Thelema]

YEAH im not really making sense am i?

[BorgFace]

rkundalini, hehe.

"The sounds were real horroshow. You could slooshy the screams and moans very realistic and you could even get the heavy breathing and panting of the tolchocking malchicks at the same time. And then, what do you know, soon our dear old friend, the red, red vino on tap. The same in all places like it's put out by the same big firm, began to flow. It was beautiful. It's funny how the colours of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on a screen."

Thelema, you put forward a very interesting idea.

I personally have never been the subject, or instigator of violent acts so I can't really relate.

Would you care to explain your hypothesis in greater detail? Just what do you mean by violence being the ultimate opposition to the god force?

Borg.

[devance]

Nihilism is a hothouse type of mentalism.

Typical for college students.

Reality is like a harsh wind soon comes crashing through the windows of the hothouse and the rare mental tropical plants die, maybe just as well.

As far as being subjected to such a nililistic person [Nihilism ]a person soon comes to the conclusion is that survival clicks in rather than a philosopy. [As in military/politics]

http://www.strike-the-root.com/

I don't think the next evolution of individual thought should be from Nihilism to Anarchy but

it can keep the mind analytical.

I be a lawyer if I wanted to be a real pain in ass to the establishment.

[Rev]

Like Alex after the treatment people get strongly conditioned for impotence in the face of violence to respond appropriately

we are the civilised men

castrated, compliant, cowardly

yet the desire cant be killed only the ability to act on it so we institute other forms of violence on each other much more insidiuos than a punch up but impersonal.

We avoid confrontation by hiding behind legal proceedings or mercenaries, or by sending a machine or ballistic weapon to do a mans job.

The sickness goes deeper. Racism, sexism manifesting in verbal violence 'just for laughs'

'cant you take a joke?'

desperate Desires and frustration get driven underground to spawn snuff films and ultra-violent pornography. mentally eviscerated manboys loathing and hating in their civilised and dehumanised world.

Emotional retards raised from birth not to show true feelings but to arrest expression fail to master the vocabulary of human contact and context

so later in fear of exposing weakness or inadequacy all emotionally sensitive behaviour is suppressed, individually, and by the group. Deviation from the lowest emotional denominator provokes brutal policing by peers.

emotions are their weakness, so by logic those who show them must be weak. Misogyny and homophobia are instilled.

'ya big girl' 'sissy' 'poof'

ridicule and marginalise those without esteem or voice but filled with a silent and compressed rage until it explodes into either a mass killing, a suicide or implodes to the cold socio/psychopathy of bitter cruelty at best or serial killer at worst.

and to the oppressed aggressor the internal violence escalates. escape into inebriation or power trips by standover games, beatings, rape, murder.

and all this from not being shown to stand tall and strong in the face of confrontation.

Not being educated in the vocabulary, internally and externally to justify and articulate cause

To say what you mean and to mean what you say.

Violence is a malignant energy that transfers from recipient to recipient. By unleashing it you are weakened so violence is a tool of the weak.

Which is why you cant win a war by violent means because each side weakens itself and the other with blows until either no decisive victory is possible, or when one side triumphs the loser unable to resist submits superfically but harbours that malignancy still deep inside the psyche. The violence gestates until it can be reborn in another form.

Victory is only possible when the sides cease offence and allow a respectful truce to be called such that both parties save face. Then teh violence can be dissipated

this is the difference between the wild or divine man who not fearing death is a god and the profane civilised man fearing his own shadow.

In all the violent exchange the civilised man has built an arsenal of physical defences and offensive weapons but he still cant contain the escalation of violence

becuase he doesnt understand the real function of negotiation which rather than a tool of peace and dissipation is attempted to be subverted as another offensive weapon.

[ 28. January 2005, 02:17: Message edited by: reville ]

[drellion]

I would have hoped nihilism, anarchy and violence have had there day in human history and a new time of constructive compassion prevail. It is much easier to destroy a flower than to create one. much more intellect involved. however, I wouldnt hold my breath on the viris that is humanity wholeheartedly resorting to peace and understanding. why seek to destroy ??

[nabraxas]

"The earliest philosophical positions associated with what could be characterized as a nihilistic outlook are those of the Skeptics. Because they denied the possibility of certainty, Skeptics could denounce traditional truths as unjustifiable opinions. When Demosthenes (c.371-322 BC), for example, observes that "What he wished to believe, that is what each man believes" (Olynthiac), he posits the relational nature of knowledge. Extreme skepticism, then, is linked to epistemological nihilism which denies the possibility of knowledge and truth; this form of nihilism is currently identified with postmodern antifoundationalism. Nihilism, in fact, can be understood in several different ways. Political Nihilism, as noted, is associated with the belief that the destruction of all existing political, social, and religious order is a prerequisite for any future improvement. Ethical nihilism or moral nihilism rejects the possibility of absolute moral or ethical values. Instead, good and evil are nebulous, and values addressing such are the product of nothing more than social and emotive pressures. Existential nihilism is the notion that life has no intrinsic meaning or value, and it is, no doubt, the most commonly used and understood sense of the word today.

Max Stirner's (1806-1856) attacks on systematic philosophy, his denial of absolutes, and his rejection of abstract concepts of any kind often places him among the first philosophical nihilists. For Stirner, achieving individual freedom is the only law; and the state, which necessarily imperils freedom, must be destroyed. Even beyond the oppression of the state, though, are the constraints imposed by others because their very existence is an obstacle compromising individual freedom. Thus Stirner argues that existence is an endless "war of each against all" (The Ego and its Own, trans. 1907). "

--ripped from another BB post w/no source.

[ 29. January 2005, 07:55: Message edited by: nabraxas ]

[woof woof woof]

most things are against us in life already - just one commet and kaboom.

lets just try and get allong while the fun lasts here on earth,... and while it lasts try and find more ways to make good fun without having to bother your neighbours.

[devance]

Violence is the ULTIMATE force against overwhelmce by the GOD PRINCIPLE, the last and dying bastion of the "I AM" before and betwixt the suffocations of the "I AM NOT" and the "I AM OTHER".

I think there can be a problem with the left/right hemisheric brain communication. Which can be experienced unpleasantly if theres uneveness in subconscous mutual communication.

The subconscious can never be conscious and can't communicate problems to the conscious exscept in the form of vague exicitations.

When one thinks about it this is the most obvious astounding [the two brain system] fact in existence and would be impossible to achieve by any artificial means or even evolution..

I saw a PBS show last night that showed physical movements as very much a direct form of learning communication [football fans] even without a person mimicking the movements. Certainly explained teenager actions to me.

But that cutting edge insights don't even become close to verbalize the complexity of a impossible but existant bibrain functioning brain physical structure.

And also there is the spiritual outlook which can only be appreciated by some understanding of what a marvel already exists as far as brain structure.

Theres many reason for dupicate arm, organs, etc.

There a few for a delicate bibrain system for a self aware human being. Most functions is on autopilot, granted..

I think that evil perps should be viewed as a embryonic failures that don't mature not as herd rebellers. Not as a philisophical evolution at all, though like I say there are plenty of examples on herd like hard wiring.

'we are the civilised men

castrated, compliant, cowardly'

A cililized person would view violence in two ways.

1 if the violent problem occurred that was transitory and not to be repeatd.. In which case a peaceful resolution should easy. Forgive and forget.

2if it would be a recurring problem by morons.

The law should be the first recourse.

The law's response should always be considered in regard to oneself personel legal welfare because screwups will get you in law trouble, themselves, or both. Impartial Witnesses are all important in critical legal violent trial testomony.

Politicals will always have you believe there is constant national trouble which only their whoreness can solve. Paid liars is all they are.

Individual Deathwish 10 response.

Nasty knife fighter dude quote:

"Taking out a eye with a knife isn't considered attemped murder especially if one is attacked first.

If they come back another day then the other eye goes too.

Sort of the two strikes your out law."

By Folsom Prison Inmate, BoxCar Joe

Definitely someone you don't want to run into in

the nilistic search for the unholy grail of personel gravity.

[Rev]

 

quote:

---

Impartial Witnesses are all important in critical legal violent trial testomony.

---

yes they are and they have a habit of evaporating - either leavin town, their mortal coil or just siezing in the witness box

I have had experience with this a couple of times. Both involving assault causing serious damage to myself.

First time it was my best friend who gave a statement which he later withdrew when his mother poisoned him against being a witness cos she didnt want him involved with the law.

the roid pumped meathead got away free and i got a fractured orbit with rib graft reconstruction

Second time my work colleagues choked on the stand pretty much cos the guy was a well known brute about town and they were scared not to get on his list. Guess what the other orbit fractured, though this time by the time i could get to see a specialist it had fused so i have a fissure in the cheek. Fucker got off

moral of the story

1) If someone is obviously looking t beat you up dont try and talk them out of it with logic. Hits first and hard and then get away if you know you cant win

2) fuck the system and fuck legal recourse. doesnt work. Only lying fucks on the side of the defendant will keep to their stories to keep a mate out of jail. your witnesses - if you can find any- have nothing to gain but $10 from the court cashier for lunch and wont put themselves on the line for u

[devance]

I always wear a fanny pack.

The bad guys have to guess whats in it.

The cops can find out so legal but effective stuff is the way to go.

A good kick in the balls works wonders for a instant and long remembered attitude adjustment also and leaves no legal traces. Pain lasts a week at least and really conditions the perp better than anything else to advoid one. Really the only selfdefense move one needs to know aside from blocking punches.

If your going to do something first the balls kick will end a fight instantly.

[nabraxas]

we're getting away from things spiritual here, but i have to disagree w/this

If your going to do something first the balls kick will end a fight instantly.

any guy who's been kicked there will know that there's a significant delay in actually feeling the hit. three or four seconds.

i did this to a guy about 10 stone heavier than me---he still had the time to fracture my skull before he doubled up.

the best 'first strike' IMHO, is a hit to the adams apple, or an uppercut--palm open or closed--to the jaw.

[devance]

In karate training there is a linear leg stance that isn't good for kicking but is for keeping the sensitive balls area from harm.

They haven't found that over hundreds of year for nothing.

[woof woof woof]

addams apple punch can be very harmful.

there are many ways to take out a person without striking him in such a place.

This site has some very cool info. www.kyusho.com lots of very trippy talk about pressure point karate. ( the same presure points also used for accupuncture )

Violence is the type of thing that should be avoided unless it is absolutely nessecary. Avoiding it untill it becomes absolutely nessecary takes a mind to new frontiers of self awareness. I would say that that is spirituallity enough!

[mescalito]

Thel have you read any of Bruce Lee's philosophy "The Tao of Jeet Kune Do"?

Or another book by Dan Inosanto just called "Jeet Kune Do" great insights into violence/opression and spirituality.

He basically HAD to learn how to fight to survive but this learning curve eventually formed the basis of 'the art of fighting-without fighting' as seen in Enter the Dragon where he says to the cocky dude challenging him "if we're going to fight...don't you think we need more room?...let's take the boat and fight on that beach on the island" then let's him hop in the boat and shoves it out handing the rope to some kids :D

Sometimes it's the blow to the ego that holds more power than the punch.

[nabraxas]

Violence is the type of thing that should be avoided unless it is absolutely nessecary

totally & utterly agree, but if it can't be avoided my aim is to put them down w/the first hit, then get away.

pressure point holds don't allow this, & techniques to strike pressure points are fairly advanced, requiring precision & a cool head.

i don't intend to spend another month in the hospital w/head injuries, so if a fight is unavoidable, i'm going for the throat.

[Owtovit]

But what happens if you go for the throat, crush their adams apple and they die?

You could be locked up for manslaughter.

[rkundalini]

A book I've been meaning to get a hold of for ages might be interesting on this topic:

Erich Fromm, 1973 The Anatomy of Human Destructiveness

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...=books&n=507846

[nabraxas]

But what happens if you go for the throat, crush their adams apple and they die?

basically, i'm 36, i don't get into fights, or even goto places where there is any possability ov violence starting.

i come from tottenham, nth london--apart from the fractured skull i've been hospitalised 3 times for concussions from fights--none ov them my fault--2 times i was hit from behind & didn't even see my attacker.

what i mean is that if i EVER get into a situation where i have no choice but to fight IT IS a life or death situation.

& even just forcibly pushing someone away from you (& certainly any punch to the head) carries the risk ov causing death, so you take your chances.

a punch to the adams apple doesn't have to be at anywhere near full force to give you a chance to escape.

[2b]

Any one heard about "demonic male theory" , basically there was these male chimps in the Gombe National Park in East Africa and after a while they started to kill other chimps, not just kill them but in packs they would gang up on the target then they would set out to kill and torture the poor victim ( real horror show like !)so the question was asked why would an animal want to be cruel ? Is cruelty and violence ingrained in males ? Males humans have the same issues as Nabraxas pointed out in being hit from behind for no apparent reason. However this theory was tested when another similar group of chimps were studied , except these ones were from way deep in the jungle and had no human contact before.

 

quote:

---

"The chimpanzees of the Goualogo are like those at Gombe: They too use tools, and they have their own culture," the narrator continues. "But there is one crucial difference: They are not as aggressive."

---

- Sanz.

A Congo field study of chimps by Crickette Sanz, a doctoral candidate in anthropology in Arts & Sciences, ranked No. 24 in Discover magazine's guide to the top 100 science stories of 2003.

The theory now starts to sway the other way , are the chimps of Gombe learning violence from humans as they have been under constant study for the last four decades ? I beleive we as human males are naturaly violent and sadistic to an extent (IMO) and this would tend to explain the behaviour of the Gombe chimps compared to the chimps in the Goualogo Triangle in the Congo. :confused:

[devance]

tottenham, nth london.

ROBINHOOD territory.

[nabraxas]

2be--excellent post .

there was a documentary awhile back about this.

i don't think the TV show came to any definite conclusion, but it seemed to lean towards the idea that envoiroment played a large part in the murderous attitude ov the apes.

they mentioned one ape who seemed to resent humans from a young age attacking & throwing rocks at the female biologist--through violence he rose to pack leader, & singlehandedly reduced the population ov rhesus monkeys in the local area by 10%.

i recall in the last episode ov the desmond morris show "the naked ape"--he said something like

--given how most people live in densly populated urban enviroments, where our sense ov personal space is being invaded constantly, it's a wonder that there aren't more events like the hungerford, port arthur or columbine tragedies.

Dvance--Robin Hood? i get it, i think you mean Nottingham, which is about 100 miles north ov london, & is actually a really nice north england town.

[ 04. February 2005, 04:35: Message edited by: nabraxas ]