Perfect Datura Administration

[TommyChesnutt]

yeah... magick is a nice fantasy land...

just remember to play safe, and get the scientific facts before you embark on whatever spiritual journey you're set on..

[Halcyon Daze]

Ive never tried datura and never want to either after the HORRORS I've seen and read.

A friend of a friend had some dried datura flower once and decided to smoke some in front of us, even though everyone was trying to talk him out of it. Minutes later I personally witnessed this guy grab a prickly pear cacts with his bare hand, and stab the cactus with a knife. The knife went through the cactus and into his own hand and it was quite a serious injury. Within a couple days he had signed himself in to a drug rehab clinic, POOR GUY. (True story)

A story I read on SAB years ago, a performing arts student smoked datura semi-regularly for a couple of weeks/ months. One day he decided to smoke the flower of a new variety with a dark purple flower. I don't think he smoked very much but it sent him loopy and unable to speak in public etc. It ruined everything in his life and after ten years he still hadn't fully recovered.

I don't think there is any safe method of taking the drug. The visual effects are the result of "Toxic Delirium" a bit like hallucinating after a snake bite. You wouldn't risk a snake bite just to experience Toxic Delirium would you...

I've also heard that most people (teens)die after accidently double-dosing (orally). This is because it takes so long for the first dose to start working that they decide that nothing is happening and they better try a larger dose. Before long both doses hit and they are DYING, and everyone is too scared to call an ambulance incase they all get in trouble.

As for the scent, the expression 'an intoxicating scent' is often used in gardening books to describe many strongly perfumed flowers such as angel's trumpets. 'Intoxicating scent' doesn't actually mean that smelling the flowers will make you feel intoxicated, no, it's another meaning for the word intoxicating that means a very strong/ powerful scent. That's all it means but the common myth is that smelling the flowers will make you feel dizzy/ intoxicated.

I'm no expert! I just think it's our responsibility to let people know how dangerous this plant is, especially those teens who think it's like free weed.

edit: spelling

Edited March 20, 2012 by Halcyon Daze

[mutant]

Hunnicut>

Sorry to hear man. I dont find hard to accept that you would be so biased. Nice to see you made it through that crisis.

but apart from you,

Am I the only one with a mild and sensible opinion?

Hedonix>

abou the magick smell

maybe, just maybe, its a combo of the right flower and some relaxed moment. or some weed , my friend suggests?

your boss has 200 brugs, you say [awesome job!!!!!!!] what colour/variety? IME, its the common yellow/orange flower [very common cultivar world wide] that does the trick. Moreover, one get accustomed to this, especially if he works with the plants - but do you work a lot around them at dawn / night?

Remember that regular handling, pruning, cutting, repotting [with bare hands] these plants might get one accustomed to small amounts of alkaloids or even result an inebriation. Take care, but you might have already developed a tolerance or even better, you know all this stuff already!

My friend's first experience happened spontaneously high on pot, at night, when he had a definite come up, in a very relaxed state. This was not repeated in the same intensity ever. First occurence was more remarkable. My friend also finds it not pleasant to having smoked and hang around these flowering yellow brugs usually, instead he cuts the flowers off and puts them away if he is around and smoked up [true story! ]. The effect is always there - that's why he cuts the flowers. BUT My friend has an acute sense of small, he is very centered around smells. That can also mean he belongs to a percentage, f.e. 10% of people with more acute smell sense than the average man.

I could easily guide one to feel the effect, man-to-man, as i have done so, where legal. It can more easily described as a 'presence' especially if you know this is coming from the plant. And the very magicKal thing in growing these plants is that all tropane plants have something about them, something attractive and strange at the same time, even if the flowers dont smell at all.

Introducing smoking pot along in this experiment, where legal, of course, would have some people wonder about the objectivity of the results, and they are right, unless we're talking a seasoned smoker.

Reptyle>>

I am under the impression that mysticism and especially about this plant is all about not boosting the mythologies... I really sense this kind of posting on your side could easily been more dangerous than really helping or inspiring - still, I think your posts are interesting...

So, since the eggs are spilt now, whydont you

FINISH THE FUCKING STORY? TELL ME ABOUT THE GLENDS!!

but, I admire that you talk about someone who cannot be bothered by everyday convictions, and regular life convictions. Then, yeah, and I believe the same goes with regular high doses of psychedelics, that some advertise, isnt that right?

yeah, daturas are the most dangerous of all

psychedelics the most non-toxic of all

both can mess up the head, even weed can

Halcyon daze>>>

A friend of a friend had some dried datura flower once and decided to smoke some in front of us, even though everyone was trying to talk him out of it. Minutes later I personally witnessed this guy grab a prickly pear cacts with his bare hand, and stab the cactus with a knife. The knife went through the cactus and into his own hand and it was quite a serious injury. Within a couple days he had signed himself in to a drug rehab clinic, POOR GUY. (True story)

this guy was probably crazy before he smoked that datura flower, or on a verge of something. people smoked tropane flower and veg material for asthma and maybe other reasons for centuries ffs. What did he smoke? but, it is true that the potency varies a lot and some varieties are more potent etc etc, so you can never tell 100%. but, did he take other drugs? is he a psychotic? what? history of the dude or IT NEVER HAPPENED!

Yes, I cannot tell if some smoke can aggravate a man prone to psychosis. I cannot tell you this wont happen. in fact, knowing that one of the effects of smoked tropane material is arsis [withdrawal] of inhibitions, and a general 'meaner', less 'ethical', satanic point of view [lol] and full on delirium in a big dose, then you got to expect that such plants, even with the mild sensations of smoking, can indeed aggrevate pre-existing stuff in a person and trigger a crisis. Maybe... but I doubt it can happen from smoking some shit alone. People are taking pills with such drugs all the time, the women for their period pains , in anti-nausea drugs etc , these are minute doses. My feeling says that people with psychotic tendencies should not mess with such plants at all. Like they are supposed to be doing with pot too, right?

I don't think there is any safe method of taking the drug.

Is there a safe way to use a chainsaw? I mean, really SAFE? Hmm, you cannot really guarantee that someone wont actually cut off his hand or leg with the damn thing.

So, smoking is safer. Safer, not safe. Pot/cannabis, mdma, coke all kinds of stimulants , psychedelic, deliriants, dissociatives can all trigger some pre-existing mental situation in the self. It's a scientific fact, we know it. Some people might react awkwardly due to idiosyncracy [a greek word btw] or due to a particular stress load they were experiencing before they ingested something. They are not 'safe' drugs. They are safer than datura?

You can say this. But datura is not addictive. Does datura actually harm more than the rest of the drugs I mentioned altogether? I woould like to have a debate on this!

Of course we are not counting the sedatives and opioids.

In fact with datura, the dangers are obvious.

DO NOT OVERDOSE!

and so people are seldom killed by daturas or scopolamine, and the same I believe is true for those getting mad by these plants.

these plants are called devil plants or mad plants for a reason. where is this teenager going to eat something he doesnt know? or worse , something he knows its active, but doesn really know shit about stuff?

how does a teenager dose?

I dont know since I first got drunk in 13 and smoked pot in 17!

of course teenagers might not be like these and do not really know what overdose means - they are not supposed to be able to know , that's one you might want to remember for next time. Still these kids wanna get high on something they dont know shit.

Did they believe what an evil friend told them? Some kids eat 50, 100, 150 and even more seeds.

Don' tell me that these kids aren't asking for it. They probably have smoked pot. I understand that kids are like that, but shouldn't a kid be more careful with what he eats - to get high?!??!

and you know something? they might not be only kids, alright? many old-timers once "did the mistake". but, you got to say these from reading especially the USreviews in erowid, i did this lots of years ago. I expect these reports are less nowdays.. with such information....

however, these plants are not hard to get a bit of taste of them and do this safely. That's what I am saying. It's not hard. You have just to have serious reason to do it.

You know... Have you ever tried an opioid? I have never. Has it been offered to you? me, yeah, I didn't accept. Why? because I am afraid of what it is, and I got to have a serious reason to take any drug I am not familiar with and what it does.

but, you know what? people , in general , doint give a shit about these shit. most people just want to get high, no big talks, not shit about chemistryandsuch.

in general, people are not so much interested in having a serious reasons for taking drugs. most of them who DO take drugs anyway!!!

the ones that have a million reasons to take drugs, but dont, they them selves find million reasons not to take after all.

Then you got the occasion where some drug others - for fun or by mistake, you know, dudes that want to know what happens if you munch 50 seeds of datura, but the someone-else-must-try-the-shit kind of guy, this is sometimes the deal with datura seeds. These are different occasions, and I despise ultimately the people who dope people without them knowing to make fun and here, maybe its the same evil friends who told the naive teenager "go eat this plant, you get high for many hours man, you wont know what's happening to you" , and that's a pretty accurate description, but you know this can be said like its actually a good thing, and a boy can believe it.

So its naivity. and here it borders with stupidity.

Not even water is safe - you can drawin in it, or worse you can be just drinking water and choke to death on it - if you have a stroke.

This having been said,

smoking little quantities of atropine/scopolamine plant leaf definately feels mild enough, and safe enough. [NOTE I say leaf, why do always people wanna fuck with the dried flower? I think they contain more atropine anyways, except from Hyoscyamus....]

definately feels mild enough, and safe enough. And, even fucking interesting is a way only one can decide for himself. They are therapeutical alright! [anti-nausea f.e.]

Smoking some material wont get you delirius, well, 99,9999% of the times anyway, it might happen that sometimes someone is crazy enough already so that a harmful smoke of henbane is no real issue, but the dude hium

You will need to smoke quite a lot, like, 3 or 4 big joints mixed with tobacco, to get strange effects in the eyes, and dry throat, both evident signs one is entering a different dosage and should rather stop smoking more material.

A story I read on SAB years ago, a performing arts student smoked datura semi-regularly for a couple of weeks/ months. One day he decided to smoke the flower of a new variety with a dark purple flower. I don't think he smoked very much but it sent him loopy and unable to speak in public etc. It ruined everything in his life and after ten years he still hadn't fully recovered.

there is something inherently wrong with smoking these herbs regularly.

One, they are quite toxic, and they are toxic in a way where your own body knows it: you get a hangover if you use them in a dose more than the pharmaceutical, meaning the pharmaceutical dosage is not even psychoactive. They are more toxic in combo with toxic stuff like alcohol and less when in combo with cannabis.

but if one uses them couple of times, then you know it's something for once in a while , if at all, which is true with all strong mind bending drugs drugs.

the 'toxicity' seems to accumulate as reports of experienced users show.

but then again, why wouod anyone do this?

in the end, its the reason for doing this, not the plant it self.

I do find the intriguing posts by Reptylke controversial, but I cannot hear that datura is bad.

datura is fine, people are fucked.

and, believe me, I am talking about intoxicating scent literally, and this not because I have read this off some book.

PS: In my humble opinion, the very fact the very few people even TALK about henbane {Hyoscyamus species} , even those that are indeed interested and maybe cultivating tropanes is indicative of the fact that nobody knows what the fuck he is talking about when it comes with these plants psychoactivity..

nobody?

well, there is some good material about all stuff on the net, but you have to search you way to it by being able to recognize what you read compared to what you are and what you want to be.

bottom line is

these plants fascinate people in all kinds of ways

ps2:

I once definitely noticed effects for the smell of the sap after cutting down a large one with a chainsaw

now that's some dangerous stuff there!!!! dont fucking mess with an old brug plant Hillbilly!!!

PS3: teens die?? come one this doesn't happen very often...

seldom people die from that kind of stuff, but yeah, some might die, you know some people have eaten 300 and some ate 30, seeds, y'now , and lived...

ciao!

Edited March 20, 2012 by mutant

[whitewind]

yeah... magick is a nice fantasy land...

just remember to play safe, and get the scientific facts before you embark on whatever spiritual journey you're set on..

 

One of the reasons shamanism is so important is because it brings together information, a long history of use, of particular plants, and allows monitoring of someone's progress. So the magic can happen, with any danger reduced.

Datura doesn't have that, there's not enough cautious stories around, shamans are afraid to condemn a plant because there's too much of that around as it is. It is as dangerous to shaman's spirit as mushrooms are to a muggle's. Hunnicutt's story is the same as we would hear from a Churchgoer who has tried weed, and it told them something they didn't want to hear. So they go back to Church the next day and tell everyone what an evil plant it is. We can learn from that, we strong-minded ones. Perhaps we need ultra-shamans, those who can go beyond, those who will treat us with contempt because we can't tolerate the intensity, and who will become frustrated with our attempts to prevent it's use. Perhaps they are here now.

Years before, it was all oral tradition (which is easily destroyed, as we know). But nowadays we have erowid, and forums like this one, for people to tell their stories. We have your important story, let this be a warning and guide on how to use this plant. Or how not too.

Use great caution. Perhaps, by starting with simply smelling the intoxicating scent, by touching the stem and stroking the leaves - followed by washing the hands shortly afterwards. After two years of sweeping around the plants, removing the fallen flowers and leaves, only then might you consider smoking a small portion of the flower - if you decide you must get to know her better. This is not weed we are talking about here, this is a potent drug - a poison. It is so potent a magic most do not realise that they have already fallen under her spell, her beautiful flowers and divine scent ensure her survival in a world where humans value beauty over utility. She earns a place in most shaman's gardens too, whether they consider using her or not. But be warned, her dangerous allure will persuade you one day, just to try a small amount, a tiny portion of a flower.

But before you do, make sure you have made your farewells. You may never return from your journey.

[dionysus]

when i was far younger me and some friends consumed what i now understand to be a considerable amount of brugmansia leaves and flowers. at the time there was no observable change in perception and my friends (still having no knowledge of the power held within these plants) swear to this day that nothing happened and we had eaten the wrong tree. i am not as sure as they are, and every now and then remember something from that day and immediately subsequent days that probably was a delusion. it really worrys me how naive i was, i consider myself pretty lucky not to have ended up a horror story.

interestingly, one of those same friends was oneday tricked into smoking a buscopan (which reacts with heat/oxygen into scopolamine) and ended up with a pretty good idea what a delusional mind state is like... (involving phantom people driving his car whilst he was sitting in the passenger seat and things like that, of course the next day his car was a wreck and he could not explain very much)

[TommyChesnutt]

Angry butthurt ranting ensued here.

Edited September 10, 2013 by hunnicutt

[solomon]

when i was far younger me and some friends consumed what i now understand to be a considerable amount of brugmansia leaves and flowers. at the time there was no observable change in perception and my friends (still having no knowledge of the power held within these plants) swear to this day that nothing happened and we had eaten the wrong tree. i am not as sure as they are, and every now and then remember something from that day and immediately subsequent days that probably was a delusion. it really worrys me how naive i was, i consider myself pretty lucky not to have ended up a horror story.

 

Similar experience here..

When younger and naive...er (15 or 16) I tried making a tea out of Brugmansia sanguinea a couple times.

I used a pair flowers and leaves each time and left in boiling water, I remember the steam and taste/smell of the brew.

At the time I thought I got zero effect from the tea but now looking back after having used other deleriants and smoking small amounts of brug I realize I somehow got off very lightly for the amount used and only got the same effects I would get from smoking a small amount: blurring vision, confused thoughts, off balance/coordination.. Maybe I didn't brew it properly or the plant was not rich in tropanes at the time, very lucky whatever the case..

Going to be a long time before I feel ready to learn from this plant. Really loving watching them grow though!

[Marcel]

Brugmansias are my favourite. I have five different Brugs on my property, surrounding my house. I'd never been tempted to try them, until I read in an old herbal that the blossoms, when smoked, are good for asthma. And since my wife and I are on a bit of a self-sufficiency kick, I thought I'd try it for my wife, who gets asthma at times, but who is a little scared to try things out without me doing a recon mission first. Imagine growing your own asthma inhalers!

Anyway, I decided I'd try it sometime in the future and went to bed. That night, I had the most horrifying and beautiful and extravagant vision of a Brugmansia spirit visiting me in my bed. At first, I awoke because I thought I heard someone moving in my room. Then, as I put my head down, I suddenly saw a green, ethereal feminine form swirling above my bed. I broke into an intense sweat and I felt like I was on fire. She spoke to me, telling me that I was NOT to ever smoke or ingest her plants. And if I did, I'd be signing over my soul to her. She was firm, but not evil. She then disappeared and I trembled under my blanket until morning.

I hadn't had anything that night, not even alcohol, which made this all the more staggering.

Dangerous or not, let's just say that I won't be smoking/drinking/eating this plant in this lifetime. And while it may have been a dream/psychotic episode/whatever, I'm going to treat it all very seriously. Signs don't get much clearer than that.

[Hedonix]

Aggression and and a sense Godhood is a couple of things strongly associated with extensive (excessive, probably) contact with and around Brugmansia and Datura, I hope you take this in to account as you work with the plants as frequently as you do. Or perhaps you could experience slightly self-elevated confidence. What is your boss like?

Smoking, of course, will likely induce stronger effects than simply inhaling the wondrous scent of the flowers, but still, there are numerous stories of people falling asleep under a Datura bush and having very interesting dreams.. often involving flying, unsurprisingly.

While I come to it, I did some witchcraft once which didn't involve Datura but did involve symbology and flying. Amazing stuff, and I can imagine how even small amounts of this potent plant material could facilitate the experience I had.

 

Very interesting. Before I started working as a horticulturist, I joined this website as a complete n00b to ethnobotany.. I can honestly say this community has changed my life forever (also snu's garden of eden). I became aware from research, the power that brugs and datura hold.. and i'm not game enough to mess with them.. only to imagine..

I'm not an extremely confident person.. well maybe I am but i'm not cocky.. my boss however, not to name names, is one of the leading landscape gardeners in Australia.. he is pretty cut throat and definately very confident.. At work we don't usually prune the brugs very much at all, just removing of dead flowers really...

I have had a reoccuring dream (before I grew or worked with brug personally) of flying from rooftop to rooftop in my neighbourhood using my doona as a sortof wingsuit to allow me to float around.. lol just thought mention that.. I loved that dream.

[Hedonix]

Similar experience here..

When younger and naive...er (15 or 16) I tried making a tea out of Brugmansia sanguinea a couple times.

I used a pair flowers and leaves each time and left in boiling water, I remember the steam and taste/smell of the brew.

At the time I thought I got zero effect from the tea but now looking back after having used other deleriants and smoking small amounts of brug I realize I somehow got off very lightly for the amount used and only got the same effects I would get from smoking a small amount: blurring vision, confused thoughts, off balance/coordination.. Maybe I didn't brew it properly or the plant was not rich in tropanes at the time, very lucky whatever the case..

Going to be a long time before I feel ready to learn from this plant. Really loving watching them grow though!

 

I know someone who wrapped a large brug leaf around the ankle, under his sock while working all day and he told me he felt like he was on shrooms. I recommended he do it... just some guy that does stupid things at work...it was irresponsible of me to do that but I had no idea at the time of the alkoloids contained within the plant and the kind of effect they may have had on him. I hadn't yet done any research on the plant.

[Hedonix]

Also I should note... I was speaking to some dude that was in silverwater prison for 5 years and apparently inmates boil stems and roots and drink as tea.. scopolamine, tropane are undectable in drug tests.. said he couldnt remember anything for 3 days and had a friend to help him walk. not sure if this was true but it sounded plausable to me considering stories of burundanga that I've read about.

[Hedonix]

Mutant >

Yeah it's great job..Building and maintaining gardens. I work mostly with Brugmansia Aurea, Arborea, Candida, and my favourite B.Sanguina.. with Sanguina being the rarest. I find it's hard to tell the difference between most of the white flowered specimens. My boss loves using them as features in gardens and I love that too... I'm always sure to wear gloves when handling Brugs...

when i first started my job, colleagues said "now, be careful of the 'datura' because some people can get an allergic reaction from it" and I said... it's actually Brugmansia, there are so many varieties that they deserved a genus of their own, and were then named brugmansia or tree datura...(i'm pretty sure I read that on SAB somewhere...) I then told them what alkoloids they contain and what effect they have on the CNS and that those alkloids can take effect on any human... that spun them out on my first day.

From experience they only release scent from dusk till dawn... I think i learned that from a video on the abc website somehere but can't remember... I got a cutting from work and grew my own (very fast growing mind you, almost 6ft in a year... warm temperate climate) and when they flowered I only ever noticed the scent at night... never at work during the day... I think that is awesome!! love the smell... apparently they flower every 3 months but haven't really taken notice lately..

They are absolutely EVERYWHERE in sydney... all types.. look in botany mainly if you want Sanguina

[whitewind]

are you... serious?

do not paint me as a church-goer datura-is-forever-bad evangelist.

 

Yes I am quite serious, but I think you misinterpreted what I said. If I called you a church-going evangelist, I also called me and many other people here the same - compared to a mythological uber-shaman who I imagined may be able to deal with these crazy substances better than we can.

It was more poetry than a personal attack. Apologies for not making myself ultra clear.

[reptyle]

mythological uber-shaman! AWESOME!

[mud]

Anyway, I decided I'd try it sometime in the future and went to bed. That night, I had the most horrifying and beautiful and extravagant vision of a Brugmansia spirit visiting me in my bed. At first, I awoke because I thought I heard someone moving in my room. Then, as I put my head down, I suddenly saw a green, ethereal feminine form swirling above my bed. I broke into an intense sweat and I felt like I was on fire. She spoke to me, telling me that I was NOT to ever smoke or ingest her plants. And if I did, I'd be signing over my soul to her. She was firm, but not evil. She then disappeared and I trembled under my blanket until morning.

 

Shit hey..

Spookily similar. I have no doubt I spoke with its spirit. The vision was of a wholly different class. This was an external being speaking, moving and existing as clear as day in front of me.

But in my case.. even thought it seemed a lilttle whack to me even at the time,

she explained she WAS the Devil. The actual, biblical devil. That the plant was truly a kind of lucifers doorway.

I was sworn never to repeat any of what had happened. Gran of salt? lol. I have the humour to see it objectively..even my own mind having witnessed it.. but seriously, nothing has ever appeared as real. The being was every bit as real to my senses, as the tree she was draped upon

Anyway,

my point is that a good ol smell of any flower oughta change your consciousness. And reasonably, in quite a big way.

It's not a matter of whether this works or not,

its a matter of how sensitive one is. If you can't feel great from a lil whiff, why not wonder what you're doing wrong? Training and refining ones senses can take time. So to, their sensitivities.

Best to stand clearly on the safe side of the line.

And leave the devil dabbln for the suicidal,

and the mythological.

[indigo264nm]

It's also my understanding that Datura is a woman's drug. Women are much more careful with exploration than men, and Datura needs very careful exploration. Women also cognize differently to men, so maybe where it adversely affects men women wouldn't have the same issues - or at least, not to the same extent.

 

It's interesting you say that - when I had my experience the entity that manifested and comprised a large chunk of my experience was the feminine archetype typically associated with Brugmansia, Datura and the other Solanacea tropane plants.

[mutant]

^^^^

interesting

if datura space / spirit is feminine then how is it compared to the other classic feminine space/spirit, salvia space?

salvia, with its short duration, gives you a nice spank, if you've been a bad boy: it uses these multidimentional scissors/rotating blades to scrape some of the outer skin off . salvia scares people through death and its funny people say sally is a fem, because death aint one. maybe pain is female...

whatta think? is pain m of f ?

dunno.. random thoughts about the sex plant spirits...