spiralfire Posted January 15, 2004 "Give Up" what do you mean by that? like stop trying to be more then you are, and then you will simply be given growth? I fully agree that it's an error to fight with life in an attempt to battle your way through it. But giving up is the other extreme of the same stick, isn't it? I've found that it is better to TRY while not being attached to the failures or success', simply flow with it and go where it leads you (ie the failure or success in life are where Hells at, Heaven is enjoying the path, maybe?) if only i could apply that to every living moment not an easy thing to do, but i'm not going to keep trying Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rune Posted January 15, 2004 If you stop trying, you will find it an easy thing to do. My entire life is a spiritual path, weather I am in the checkout at Coles or on a mountain-top. When I am doing the right thing by the man upstairs (upstairs, like in my head...hmmm...yeah...I like that!), I am happy wherever I am. I've got a book called 'Zen and the art of motorcyle maintenance', of which a line springs to mind about the God-head being just as comfortable in the cogs of a motorcycle engine, as it is in our Mother nature. Isn't the internet a fantastic spiritual tool?! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spiralfire Posted January 15, 2004 Ahh, i've never read the book, but methinks i'll have to check it out (one of things i have trouble with is being comfortable in the "cogs" ) yeah the internet is such an amazing tool for exploring and evolving ones spiritual viewpoint Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rune Posted January 15, 2004 Yeah the cogs take a while, and sometimes I get bogged too, like maintaining peace (which can include anger - I think it's what you do with the anger) when a t.v. show I'm trying to enjoy is interupted by some crude ad for bob's tyres' once-a-year sellout. I notice when I am under the soothing influence of something nice, these ads turn from annoying to funny, and I really can appreciate the childish humour these people use to sell their products. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted January 15, 2004 . And why the hell did god put the apple tree in the garden if adam and eve wern't supposed to eat it. Its like he was setting a trap for them. Exactly. Which prooves that the whole story is a lie instigated by humans. Such a human behaviour.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nabraxas Posted January 16, 2004 quote: And why the hell did god put the apple tree in the garden if adam and eve wern't supposed to eat it. Its like he was setting a trap for them. Exactly. Which prooves that the whole story is a lie instigated by humans. Such a human behaviour ok-WE can't even begin to imagine god's motives, because the game isn't over yet, BUT a part ov the game was to get christ crucified--in order for that to happen eve HAD to eat the apple--sure to our occluded minds it seems like a set up, but it may have been essential. remeber god is always present--now, in the past & in the future; is all knowing, at all times, past present & future; & all powerful--there is no aspect ov the past present or future that is not in his control--it may all appear screwy to us but that's like amoeba trying to judge the workings ov the universe. not that i believe in god or anything, but things aren't sooo simple. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted January 16, 2004 BUT a part ov the game was to get christ crucified--in order for that to happen eve HAD to eat the apple--sure to our occluded minds it seems like a set up, but it may have been essential. You are talking as if you BELIEVE in the bible... according to you neither Eve or Jesus had any choice... to me the bible is just a boring book of stupid fairy tales that make no sense... there is no real perspective as to what god is... just THAT you have to OBEY him... fuck that... I hate obeying, especially when i don't know WHY... just because of some stupid book that so many people believe in... it's all crap... to me the ONLY reasonable approach towards godliness is the buddhist one, christianity just plain sucks... I am talking about the original buddhist idea, not about the "religion' that is practised in Eastern countries today, which is just as hippocritical as our churches... so sorry if I don't buy your christian explanation, nabraxas, since it really doesn't make any sense... and about amoeba: perhaps they are closer to god then us humans, we are continuously evolving AWAY from IT, or should I say "devolving" or if that's no word, then "degenerating". Every day finds us further from god... and the "unmoving heavens" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nabraxas Posted January 16, 2004 quote: Exactly. Which prooves that the whole story is a lie instigated by humans. Such a human behaviour.... gomaos--that is what you said. i was just pointing out that it prooves nothing(to me & christians anyway) you either believe the bible--in which case there are a 1000 arguments for it; or you don't believe the bible--in which case you don't need proofs,(it being a matter ov belief) & the last place you'll get them is from the pages ov the book you don't believe in anyway.--it's self defeating-- [ 16. January 2004, 05:13: Message edited by: nabraxas ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rune Posted January 16, 2004 quote: ...you either believe the bible...or you don't... I KNOW the PARTS of the bible that I have PROVEN to myself to be true (or have been proven to me to be true). I'm still working my way through it. I am not so blind as to follow these written teachings based on my knowledge that PART of it is true. The rest might be 'doctored' in the name of selfishness for all I know (it wouldn't surprise me). I can't, however think of anything as of yet in the bible that I have PROVEN to be UNTRUE, but this does not mean these parts don't exist. There are many parts I am 'sceptical' about, but this is not 'proof' of a lie. Maybe I just don't understand yet what's being said in these parts. Work towards TRUTH, and don't be so quick to discount wisdom offered to you based on the possibility that you are not enlightened enough yet to fully understand this wisdom. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rune Posted January 16, 2004 quote: to me the bible is just a boring book of stupid fairy tales that make no sense... Gomaos you should look at what I just wrote. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted January 16, 2004 Work towards TRUTH, and don't be so quick to discount wisdom offered to you based on the possibility that you are not enlightened enough yet to fully understand this wisdom all I am interested in is the truth; all the bible appears to be interested in is to teach obedience to superiors, to"God". christianity has primarily been used to subdue citizens into obeying/following leaders. Supposedly, if Christ really lived, which is not unlikely, he was a revolutionary who rose up against the utterly evil roman empire. the way christiany is being used to make citizens OBEY, is spitting right into the face of the original christ, whose teachings were actually NOT TO OBEY, to rise up against evil authority. I am just disgusted that christianity is still allowed to play such a big role in today's society. Americans and those who live "the american way of life" (yuck)still go to church on sundays, still listen to their preachers. Nobody cares how much evil has been done in the name of christiany: the crusades, South america, witches burnt at the stake, the list is endless... yet they still go to church on sundays and feel good about themselves. This is just ridiculous. I do watch the neo-christians in my environment. I see how they embrace capitalism and the "american lifestyle." They are such hippocrits, not at all interested in the truth. Some of them have even found their way into the ethnobotany-movement ( I don't mean anyone participating in this thread). Christ, if he existed, was great as a revolutionary. Christianity is a great lie. The Bible is nothing but lies. [ 16. January 2004, 08:08: Message edited by: gomaos ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rune Posted January 16, 2004 The bible, or any religious teachings, when misunderstood, can be dangerous. Problems arise like people believing the light to mean white, to mean 'clean' - which makes black dirty and bad - therefore black PEOPLE must be bad... and so on. Jesus came and showed people what the bible really meant (and made a few changes while he was at it). Now people have been so long without proper guidance they are starting to misunderstand again. The problems you mentioned with Christianity support what I am saying - that the bible is a very powerful tool, and can work very powerfully in favour of good or evil. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
reptyle Posted January 16, 2004 interpretation is the lie! actual truth is completely without interpretation it exists in its own scope and has nothing to do with what we believe, its the sort of thing that we must learn to see. the bible has more truth in it than most christians even realise, the lessons and stories of christ have been obscured by a social context in which power money and greed are rife. instead of being so ignorant try and read the words for what they mean and not for how they have been (wrongly) interpreted. the amazing thing about religion is that underneith all the bullshit, that is obviously there, there is a message of truth. if u scrape away all the political and social interpretations placed upon the messages u wil see this message of truth. so what if the majority of "christians" belive they are doing good yet still go out and cause pain and suffering through their actions, truth is an individual thing and your truth has nothing to do with theirs, if u can see truth, by all means tell them, try and help them see, but do not judge them for dissagreeing they have many more lifetimes to learn to see the truth, your best hope and mine, is to leave this planet and this existence by the end of this lifetime. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rune Posted January 16, 2004 That all sounded pretty dang good to me Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rune Posted January 16, 2004 ...except the bit about leaving the planet - the people who respect and love the planet are the ones who deserve to stay - let the FOOLS leave... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spiralfire Posted January 16, 2004 Christianty (the bible and the whole package) is too many "chinese whispers" away from the source for my liking! There are so many other cosmolgies which have an intuitively truer ring to them and as far as i know guilt and sin where injected into these pre-existing religions later on down the track... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rune Posted January 17, 2004 quote: The problems you mentioned with Christianity support what I am saying - that the bible is a very powerful tool, and can work very powerfully in favour of good or evil. Let me change that to: ...RELIGION is a very powerful tool, and can work very powerfully in favour of good or evil. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rune Posted January 17, 2004 quote: To get respect from an idiot, you have to be a better idiot than them. Not necessarily. You CAN get respect from an idiot by being a better idiot, which is something idiots do. There is another way. Be closer to GOD than the idiot. The idiot sees the LOVE in you. Love is the opposite of FEAR. Fearless people GET RESPECT, because fearful people fear fearless people. People respect what they fear (sharks, spiders). Idiots won't admit this as a respect, but will say they 'hate' things they fear ("kill all sharks" etc). Idiots fein fearlessness in order to impress the other idiots. As Shanya Twain puts it "That don't impress me much" (she's actually an idiot, however who happened upon a good line for me to use for good purposes). quote: I'm not trying to be something I'm not - I'm trying NOT to be something that I am (be all you can be...scares the shit out of me!). I said in an earlier post to 'give up', or stop trying. I have now applied this to the quoted aspect of myself - I am now not trying NOT to be something I am (meaning I have 'given in' and stopped trying). I do not fear what I am. I have a clearer mind and am much much happier. quote: Are we in Hell (or as I like to call Hell, 'Heaven's prison')? Yes. Yes we are in Hell. We are learning to unlock the Heaven in our minds, realeasing ourselves from Hell (or whatever you like to call it), a place which we have been for an eternity. Once your mind is free, there's still the matter of working on the physical aspects of yourself and the planet that are still in Hell. quote: What about beatiful people like Bob Marley? What the HELL are THEY doing in HELL? Beacons? Yes, Bob Marley was a beacon. But he was no angel. He used to be a streetfighter before he discovered Jah love. quote: Am I a beacon? You had better fucking believe I am. quote: Are YOU a beacon? Only you can answer this. quote: I recommend you follow the brightest light available to you, until you come across the brightest light - the one at the endof this very, very long tunnel... At the moment, I am the brightest light. Follow me if you know what's good for you. quote: 'what IS eternity?' As time is a human invention, eternity is an existence which comes about when one forgets the beginning of that existence. We have been in HELL for an ETERNITY. quote: Follow the door marked 'delusional' - trust me - I've tried all the others, it's the only way out! Yes, I am crazy. I have the opposite state of mind of an idiot. To me they are crazy, but there are millions of idiots, and only one of me, so I have learned to shut up and accept the fact that I am 'crazy'. I just relax and enjoy every minute of it. Please let's keep the vibes nice on this thread. I'm sick of reading some of these posts and feeling anger. The closer I am to God, the more WHITE(!) hot my rage becomes... [ 18. January 2004, 23:48: Message edited by: Rune ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkeydance Posted January 17, 2004 White hot rage sounds healthy. How can words jibe you so. a difference of opinion is required to form new ideas. new ideas are untested but hold potential truths. accept them carefully into your new understanding. each second brings a new understanding, dont fear change. peace. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rune Posted January 17, 2004 Yeah nice comeback monkeydance quote: White hot rage sounds healthy. Anger is nice (if you know how to vent it). I was angry when I typed that, and typing it made me feel good. I have no problem with other people being angry with me, but it better be for a good reason! quote: a difference of opinion is required to form new ideas. new ideas are untested but hold potential truths. New ideas may hold potential truths - so bring them on! quote: ...dont fear change. No fear means no fear of change. We need change to get out of unhappiness. You're alright with me monkeydance [ 17. January 2004, 23:38: Message edited by: Rune ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woof woof woof Posted January 20, 2004 nabraxas: rune--some concepts can be explained simply, but they are complicated concepts & require some effort to understand. it is in that effort you will find the apple--- if Life, death, the universe, god etc. could be simply understood you wouldn't be asking the questions. :D And it is work to channel the heavens,... but is work that makes us content. It should shound like a smooth running engine with nice overones & harmonies..... heheh & sometimes like a freight train,.... when I am on chemicals with thumping psy techno celebrating life... :D Trust in life! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rune Posted January 20, 2004 quote: For me there is a heaven,..... and I get a glimpse of it here on earth. But Brian, don't you believe there can be a Heaven HERE on Earth? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mescalito Posted January 21, 2004 The only thing that guards you from heavens' gate is you. Look at the metaphysics of Y O U..... Why? Ohh! You... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rune Posted January 21, 2004 The only problem is: no matter how happy I become within myself, it's not going to be 'perfect' unless the whole world is there with me... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
