How they betel in these parts

[planthelper]

areca catechu

[kadakuda]

cool plant man, that yours?

Here are some pics and tid bits of info from where we have been.

Myanmar (Burma)

I think tripsis or someone ele can confirm this, but it seems here its pretty indian style. All dry ingredients but the leaf is fresh and used to roll all the other additives.

many differnet spices are added as is tobacco. I went to a supplier who supplies many of the street vendors and they sold a mixture they said made you see things. They told me it was a mix of honey, alcohol and tobacco. only a tiny bit is added to the chew for mild effects, strong effects are supposedly pretty harsh and unwanted. I bought a tin of the tobacco for betel nut chew and its from india, as is most of the packaged dry material we found.

Some pics from a few different locations in Myanmar.

Laos

I only really found it in one spot in the south of Laos about 20 mins away from "400 islands". i mentioned above, and i am very interested in it. they dont use lime. only fresh nut, leaf and a bark that is scraped. Maybe tsuamai or someone else who may be able to read Thai can also read Lao. I asked the guy to write the name of the tree it comes from in Lao, so if anyone things they know how to read it, i can scan it and put it here. the bark has no special smell.

Palau

Like Taiwan's standard nut. Leaf, nut, lime all fresh. But Palau use slightly larger nuts and cut them in half or quarters. I think probably due to them being an ally with Taiwan over China they are adopting more Taiwanese style and i saw some advertising with "young nuts". I also saw some alcohol called "betel Joe" with a nut and leaf in it. Tasted pretty betel like, not half bad but not great. only noticed an alcohol buzz though.

Thailand

I didnt manage to find any shops in my short time here, but i did find people who chew. There (Kaoh Sok Park area) they used fresh nuts, younger but still large by Taiwan standards, are cut and lime (which is pink...) is put on the leaf and rolled up with the cut nut.

Actually i really only added thailand in this post to mention the trees i found on one farm (palm oil farm) were so incredibly fat and short it was unreal. the trees when old also grow lots of epiphytes on them as the people there dont seem to cut them down when they get too high. looks pretty slick. but the trees are about 1 foot thick and 12 feet high....thats fricken thick for betel nut! i brought some seeds back to try and grow them up...hopefully its genetic. they also had fruit far shorter than seeds in taiwan, but im not sure their age and the nut shape was poor.

[tuamai]

"]Laos[/size]

I only really found it in one spot in the south of Laos about 20 mins away from "400 islands". i mentioned above, and i am very interested in it. they dont use lime. only fresh nut, leaf and a bark that is scraped. Maybe tsuamai or someone else who may be able to read Thai can also read Lao. I asked the guy to write the name of the tree it comes from in Lao, so if anyone things they know how to read it, i can scan it and put it here. the bark has no special smell.

The wife reads Thai and Lao. Go ahead and post it and I'll give you the English.

[kadakuda]

sweet thanks man. Even if you could somehow type it here so i can then google myself along would be cool

Excuse my bastardization (i mean romanization) of the word. i tried.

EDIT, while uploading this pic i foudn it! I think. and as it turns out they still use lime in Laos.

In most cases, the astringent matter used in the betel quid is a slice of sisiet cut from the bark of the perennial, 25-30m-high Kunz tree (Pentace burmanica). The mature bark is removed in pieces of (roughly) 45-50cm, four to five centimetres wide and one to two centimetres thick.

From: http://www.iias.nl/sites/default/files/IIAS_NL57_16.pdf

On a related note (meaning betel nut substitutions) when we were in Palau a couple years ago i remember hearing about a tree used when betel nut was pricey or not in season. I am not sure if it works, and am interested to knwo if anyone here has tried. I also have a book that mentions it. I had forgotten all about it until this laos bark came up and i started thinking about substitutes for different ingredients.

the latin is dolichandrone spathacea. the book i have mentions the use of leaves and young fruit specifically. i also gogoled a tad, and i have not read these through yet, but they mention it as well.

http://www.papuaweb.org/dlib/bk/paijmans/03.pdf

http://www.sil.si.edu/smithsoniancontributions/Botany/pdf_hi/sctb-0081.pdf

http://ia600202.us.archive.org/15/items/minorproductsofp03brow/minorproductsofp03brow.pdf

[tuamai]

Hey Kadakuda,

Is that your English writing above the Lao? That's it: "seesiet" or probably better "seesiat".

Wifey says it's the bark of a tree everyone eats with betel nut in Northeast Thailand and Laos.

She says she's never seen the tree the bark comes from, just the peeled bark.

I looked it up in my very good Thai dictionary and it says "acacia catechu and similar trees."

[Teotzlcoatl]

interesting. but betel here in Taiwan are very much raw, and I would not call tehm at all close to psychoactive, and I have chewed a LOT at one time. They are a stimulant. THey do have interesting synergies with some things though.

Stimulants ARE psychoactives.

[coin]

In Indian betel chew, often included is 'cutch' ('u' as in 'push'). Solidified extract of Acacia catechu heartwood, also used for tanning/dyes & as an astringent medicine. It seems like this has the same function as sisiet (highly tannic). Cutch is used to treat mouth ulcerations and I think some studies have shown it inhibits tumor cells & lower blood pressure

Old post re betel chew prep/cutch

Cutch manufacturer site

Great photos above

Edited September 2, 2011 by coin

[tuamai]

sweet thanks man. Even if you could somehow type it here so i can then google myself along would be cool

Excuse my bastardization (i mean romanization) of the word. i tried.

EDIT, while uploading this pic i foudn it! I think. and as it turns out they still use lime in Laos.

From: http://www.iias.nl/sites/default/files/IIAS_NL57_16.pdf

On a related note (meaning betel nut substitutions) when we were in Palau a couple years ago i remember hearing about a tree used when betel nut was pricey or not in season. I am not sure if it works, and am interested to knwo if anyone here has tried. I also have a book that mentions it. I had forgotten all about it until this laos bark came up and i started thinking about substitutes for different ingredients.

the latin is dolichandrone spathacea. the book i have mentions the use of leaves and young fruit specifically. i also gogoled a tad, and i have not read these through yet, but they mention it as well.

http://www.papuaweb.org/dlib/bk/paijmans/03.pdf

http://www.sil.si.edu/smithsoniancontributions/Botany/pdf_hi/sctb-0081.pdf

http://ia600202.us.archive.org/15/items/minorproductsofp03brow/minorproductsofp03brow.pdf

 

Being in a hurry yesterday to get to work, I didn't read your whole post and didn't realize you already had the translation.

Not sure if they're using bark from acacia catechu or pentace burmania, but from what I've read, I'd say the acacia.

I've only tried betel nut once while on a trip to Vietnam (paid my own way, no free ride from uncle sam!). Liked it, but

when the cute little Vietnamese girl I was traveling with went into fits of laughter on meeting up with me at the beach,

I had to find a mirror to see what was so funny. Couldn't believe how deeply red my lips, teethe and whole mouth had

become from eating just one. Mostly old ladies eat it around SE Asia and I thought their mouths were so red from years

of daily use, but my mouth was completely red from just one go and stayed that way for around three days.

Is there another species of betel nut that doesn't turn your oral cavity deep red?

[kadakuda]

i forget the exact name, maybe areca red?, but when the seed of the nut (meaning the inner part) mixes with lime it goes bright red. there is no way around it without not adding betel nut, which kind of defeats the purpose.

I have noticed many places in SE Asia also tend to be older generations shewing. But not in taiwan, all ages of say 16+ chew it here. i chew it a lot and im in my late 20s. here it is more of a working class type thing, not unlike how kratom seems to be for working class in thailand, more or less.

that said i was asking a similar question about betel nut substitutes just above and i wonder if they turn the mouth red, and if they are as effective. i suspect not as any plant where the leaf is active would surely become more popular over a fruit as the simple economics of producing leaf is far better than relying on fruit. so im am only guessing hte nut is the best we know for now. but i am really interested to learn more if anyone has any more input on the other substitutions.

I looked it up in my very good Thai dictionary and it says "acacia catechu and similar trees."

thats good to know. From a couple things i read it seems some barks are added for the astringent quality, i am very curious ho wit effects the quality of the chew. in fact i am chewing some betel now (taiwanese) i will add some bark shavings right now and see how it feels.

I've only tried betel nut once while on a trip to Vietnam

that is pretty sweet. how was the taste? any idea what ingredients were in it, or was it all wrapped up and ready for you? I have never been to Vietnam and liekly wont go there for a long time, but i read they are a pretty huge betel chewing nation with some specialties up their sleeves.

EDIT: i should have mentioned the betel nut i had in Myanmar which they added 2 unknown spices and tobacco to the usual 3 ingredients was VERY strong. I felt the tobacco for sure, and it was borderline too strong after just 2. after that time i asked them to just put a little tobacco in it. it was a FAR different feeling than commercial chewing tobacco though, nothing at all similar except the sick feeling when you chew too much.

Edited September 4, 2011 by kadakuda

[tuamai]

The betel nut I had in Vietnam was made

up of the betel leaf, nut and lime paste.

Saw a lot of old women partake, but never

saw any men chewing it. My Vietnamese girl-

friend at that time told me mostly old

women whose husbands had died chewed betel

nut.

Think I'll just stick with Maeng Da

and keep my pearly whites pearly white.

Edited September 5, 2011 by tuamai

[kadakuda]

interesting. So did you get more laughs than from her when you chewed there, being a man?

Ya, betel nut, especially that dried stuff some places like, is harsh on your teeth for sure! plus green spit is better than red spit any day of the week, but i personally prefer betel buzz over kratom hehe.

[tuamai]

interesting. So did you get more laughs than from her when you chewed there, being a man?

Ya, betel nut, especially that dried stuff some places like, is harsh on your teeth for sure! plus green spit is better than red spit any day of the week, but i personally prefer betel buzz over kratom hehe.

 

I did get a lot of curious looks, but then I was one of the few tourists who visited

Vietnam back in 1991!

If you like the betel buzz better than the kratom buzz I may have to get a red mouth

again!

There's a betel nut tree growing right in the side walk in downtown Honolulu about 10 minutes

away from my apartment and no one seems to know what it is. My wife pointed it out to me

and said it's definetly betel nut. The tree is about 10' high and loaded with betel nut!

Today being a holiday, think I'll go out for a walk.

[kadakuda]

sweet

get them when they are young if you can. fresh nuts are infinitely better than dried nuts...no competition.

[opiumfreak]

wow how does one chew betel? do one actually chew or just keep it in the mouth? kratom is illegal now in sweden so no more of that for me!

Edited January 5, 2012 by opiumfreak

[kadakuda]

yes, you chew it. How you do it will depend a bit on what you buy (how its prep'd). but basically chew it up decent in your mouth, get it all sloppy and juicy and hold it in your cheek (cause its easier). dont swallow the first few mouth fulls of saliva, there is a lot of lime in there. spit it out, but hold it in your mouth for a while, like 5mins or more if you can to get everything basified inside. many people dont like to swallow any of it.

[opiumfreak]

how can find betel nut on the internet who can ship to sweden?

Edited January 16, 2012 by opiumfreak

[planthelper]

my nut's don't display this beautyfull pattern (as seen on most of the betel pics), when you slice them, why is that? i guess this brownish pattern might appear only after some time cutting them?

i think i'm not far off, from my first bioessay, and will try as followes:

remove tip and stalk and prominent veins of the fresh leaf.

slice the nut, sprinkle a bit of bicarbonated soda on the nut, and than wrapp, with the leaf.

put it into the mouth and chew a bit, and spit out the first few bouts of saliva.

the saliva produced later can be swallowed.

i'm sure i read bi carb can be used instead of lime, and it posses less danger of burning your mouth, but i guess it's not as effective realising the activas aswell.

[solomon]

I can only get dry betel leaf and dry areca nut here.. Is there a good way to rehydrate the betel leaf?

[kadakuda]

grow your own. piper vines are incredibly easy to grow. a lot of places that use the dried nuts, still wrap in fresh leaf.

my nut's don't display this beautyfull pattern (as seen on most of the betel pics), when you slice them, why is that? i guess this brownish pattern might appear only after some time cutting them?

maybe your nuts are too small larger nuts have solid seeds inside, young nuts are hollow and watery inside. if you want to see some large cool patterned inner seed, let tehm grow to be yellow, then take a boo.

[∂an]

how can find betel nut on the internet who can ship to sweden?

 

have you tried maya ethno's?

http://www.maya-ethnobotanicals.com/product_browse.phtml/catid/subid/herbid_004

[planthelper]

maybe your nuts are too small larger nuts have solid seeds inside, young nuts are hollow and watery inside. if you want to see some large cool patterned inner seed, let tehm grow to be yellow, then take a boo.

 

you are spot on kada, only my first batch of seeds, didn't display the beautyfull pattern, but the ones i open yesterday, all showed the pattern!

i tried them out for the first time in my life yesterday, but only in the minutes ammounts (~1/8 of a good sized nut), today i plan to have more.

i could tell that, wrapping the nut just before using it might not be very effective, because everytime, i added more bicarb, more of the "nice stuff came out".

i will not report yet the effects, although i experienced some, even though, only so little material was used.

today, i wrapped, the nut pieces up beforehand, i guess the reaction can start than already before, chewing.

i experienced aswell, some negative sensations, so i'm keen, to see how it goes today!

btw, i woke up this morning, to see for the first time (~5 years after planting) my hylocereus in flower!!! and it has two fruits, which i had overlooked so far.

life is good.

[planthelper]

yes, the betle which i, prepared 4-5 h befor consumption was much better, and i didn't had to re dose with the bicarb.

there were hardly any uplifting sensations, but rather even a little bit a state of confusion.

again i kept the dose very low (~ 1/4 of a nut).

i noticed that the spit, is first clear and only later turned red in my spittoon, but i guess, this changes if you become a regular chewer.

this stuff, gave me the abilety to work in the heat, without drinking liquids, and hunger.

the sensation was though a bit of a roller coaster ride, i mean the downs, felt a tiny bit like when you come down from an upper, but than, minutes later, i was up again.

it definately gave me a headache, i didn't had any headaches before i tried it out, and none, much later.

aswell the headache went away, by chewing again.

i speculate, that the body needs to learn how to use and metabolize those substances, in given time.

i will try out far more next time, but i doubt, this practice, will ever appeal me.

good thing was though, i woke up very refrehed, and full of energy, the next morning after taking it.

instead of chewing, i planted the other nuts.

Edited February 16, 2012 by planthelper

[kadakuda]

i am getting the impression you are spitting too early. if its clear, something is wrong. trhe red color is a chem reaction when teh lime hit the nut, so if its mixed (or chewed) together it should go red. its hard to get used to hanging onto so much saliva, buts its needed. It is in fact quite fun having a group of chewers hold a conversation

are you drying them or using fresh? if you grow your own i strongly suggest using young nuts. dried nuts are crap, to be blunt. I know most nations use it but that is mostly due to lack of ability to turn big profits cause fresh nuts need to be transported, sold and used within a week tops, this is why Taiwan can do so well with good nuts because its a small country and there is a HUGE chewing population, so it works well and is a massively profitable industry here with literally NO one using dried nut.

young nuts i mean the size of the last segment of your thumb, or slightly smaller. you wrap the whole nut (ddont need to take out the seed, chew it all) with leaf and some lime in the middle.

The fact your earlier preps worked better is most liekly the fact the lime touched the nut and had time to change it a bit prior to eating. thats my guess anyway. There is a a type here, i think i posted about it above, called "Hong Hway". with this they cut open the nut liek a hot dog bun and open it up. scoop out the inner seed and mix it with the lime and Piper betle flower (you could use leaf too, but flower is jsut a specialty thing). this turns red. the resulting "paste" is put into a ball liek shape and put back into the nut. this is my favourite way as the rumours stating this method to be the strongest seem true. i get a huge buzz at first with face heating, love it. i think this is due to the fact the nut and lime/piper are all mixed togehter adn a lot of the chemistry is already done, so chewing it brings on effects faster.

i speculate, that the body needs to learn how to use and metabolize those substances, in given time.

i will try out far more next time, but i doubt, this practice, will ever appeal me.

this may be true, i cannot say. THough i suspect it has more to do with the person learning how to chew it.

dry nut is hard and a bitch to chew. i disliek it a lot.

in burma i got to try some differnet types, most added tobacco. intersting but made the chew feel more speedy and narcotic. i am no tobacco fan but if i were i am sure it would have been fucking fantastic! they used about 1/2-1 inner nut (from fully mature nuts) and cut it up and place in leaf with lime and herbs.

they also have a bag of special stuff, honey, alcohol and some other thigns i could not quite dicipher and they couldnt speak english. from what i did gather tehy said it was perhaps slightly hallucinogenic or more p[robably simply very intoxicating. though with a lot of sign language there was a lot of mention about seeing things and being dizzy.

i bought a tin o fht etobacco, it s afine tobacco, not shreded or anyhting. like pepper.

EDIT

I came here to write about a new type i had here. I just met our neighbour who is building ahouse behind ours. it was very late adn we got chatting as he helped tear down our old chicken coup so we could plant a garden. He gave me some nuts he jsut got from his moms house then showed me a jar of dried stuff. i have to date not seen peopel in Taiwan do this, so i got all excited and probably looked like a kid at christmas. it was dried mango and some kind of herb, looked like a root. he said the name, but my chinese isnt that good yet, so i am not sure. the chew was slightly different, more energetic so i am thinking is a energy herb of some kind, wasnt ginseng. anyway, the mango was fantastic! so simple, and yet i had never thought of it, it made the quid taste amazing.

Edited February 16, 2012 by kadakuda

[planthelper]

i saw some footage of people at the solomon islands, and he pounded the leaves and nuts in a mortar before putting it in his mouth.

the nuts are from the botanical garden.

i'm sure i will prepare the nut's much better in the future, and i will increase the dose to 1 or 2 nuts if i can. like everything in life, it's a learning curve.

next time i will slice the nut very thin, and after a liberal sprinkle of bicarb, i will wrap each slice, with a bit of leaf, and than wrap 4 or so slices up with a bit more leaf.

or maybe i use some of my flowers, you said you like them the most.

the process of preparing the nuts, is i guess just something like cooking, it needs a little bit of practice, aswell i asumme, like with cooking, although the ingreediances are often the same, some people realy like, some peoples wrapped nuts more than others.

[kadakuda]

maybe one of the guys that know thailand well can type the name, but there is also a great thai dish wher ethey put various things inside a piper leaf and eat it. very tsasty.