Kanna

[DanielC]

Ive just recently had a positive experience with this plant preparation and am keen to purchase some more.

Does anyone know if its legal to import, I cant find any decent priced Australian suppliers.

[krazykungfu]

Ive just recently had a positive experience with this plant preparation and am keen to purchase some more.

Does anyone know if its legal to import, I cant find any decent priced Australian suppliers.

 

I'm pretty sure it's legal to import but it's entry into the country is dependant on it's form and origin to be allowed through customs - there's some good overseas suppliers on ebay but when I ordered some QLD customs wouldn't let it through. A South African aquaintance told me it's a lot easier to get things through when they arrive through Sydney or Melbourne as opposed to Brisbane... There are some Australian suppliers but I wouldn't call any of them "good value" - but if it's your only option....

PS get some seeds, they come through easy enough, and start growing

Edited November 14, 2010 by krazykungfu

[planthelper]

i sometimes sell good kanna, maybe i have a little bit left, will have a look.

[DanielC]

Thanks for the replies, ill give one of the ebay sellers a go. Im definitely keen to grow it too

[Zen Peddler]

deleted

Edited May 21, 2011 by Zen Peddler BlueGreenie

[krazykungfu]

Im also a big fan of this plant.

 

I've recently found a bunch of research papers on Kanna and some home brew methods for Kanna nose spray (instead of having to snort gunk) etc... If anyone else is interested just let me know

Cheers

[solomon]

yes please, i use a kanna spray and would be interested in how to make my own.

[∂an]

how would you describe the effect of the spray?

[solomon]

same effects as snorting plant material, but it takes longer to kick in and it is longer lasting.

euphoria, alertness/stimulation.

[ThunderIdeal]

you suddenly have my attention haven't looked into this plant

[tryptamine]

A Kanna spray sounds ideal. I love the effect of snorting Kanna but my nose just can,t take it anymore. Smoking and chewing seem less effective.

[∂an]

A Kanna spray sounds ideal. I love the effect of snorting Kanna but my nose just can,t take it anymore. Smoking and chewing seem less effective.

 

yeah i don't know how people snort this kind of stuff... sets me of on a sneezing fit. a spray would be great - does it require dissolving extracted alkaloids into water?

[Rabelais]

Yes, I would also be interested in knowing how to make a spray...

Edited November 19, 2010 by Dale Cooper

[Yeti101]

Spray would be interesting indeed, both for nose & under the tongue. I wonder what the solvent is and/or what state the mesembrine etc is in (salt or base)?

[solomon]

my spray is off an auction site over here but is imported from medico herbs. i got it for about 12-15 Australian dollars and it has lasted me for months.

still i would prefer to make my own when my plants are big enough.

Edited November 20, 2010 by centipede

[krazykungfu]

I'm going to try that spray whilst waiting for my plants to finish growing!

I found this post on another forum and take no credit for it...(I'm not sure if it's allowable to directly link to it or not so here's a copy and paste job)

sceletium tortuosum nose spray recipe:

here's the deal:

i have been experimenting a lot lately. i had made an 96.6% ethanol extract of 40g sceletium tortuosum.

this yielded 3.76g of black resin which was pretty dry, but still a little oily.

1.65 of this was dissolved in 30ml of warm distilled water. (this equals 17.5g sceletium powder)heating it from underneath with a hotplate helped. the black stuff needs to melt and the water will become deep yellow. let the black stuff settle and siphon off the water while still hot and squirt it in the nasal spray bottle. when the water cools precipitate forms. it looks like slightly yellowish crystals. it is very important to shake the liquid before spraying to stir up the crystals in the water.

1 spray in each nostril is good for nice effects. 1 spray push equals 0.125g of sceletium tortuosum powder.

now what i dont know is if all spray bottles emit the same amount of liquid per push.

i calculated like this: i added 30ml of water to the spray bottle and counted the pushes until its emptpy. this was in my case 140 pushes. since i wanted to distribute the dose between both nostrils i wanted 2 pushes to contain the power of 0.25 g sceletium powder. its really easy.

yesterday evening i had some friends over and we had tried it out. at first i administered 2 pushes to myself. and because of my macho ingestion syndrome added another 2 pushes after 5 minutes of waiting because nothing seemed to be happening. then at some point in the next 10 minutes a VERY STRONG euphoric rush started within seconds. i had visuals too. it was way too much. i had taken like 0.5g sceletium nasally in 10minutes. way more than you could fit in your nose. a friend of mine had taken the same dose 5 minutes later than me. at first he too wasnt feeling anything and then suddenly he felt it too. it was too much he said. we both had to rinse our noses out with water. after that the intense effects carried on another 15minutes or so and then lingered off in a very nice feeling of well being and love for our surroundings including empathic feelings to one another.

so be patient. sometimes it takes about 10-15 minutes to unfold its full effects. we had also puffed 2 very potent vaporizers of weed before. i think the visuals must have come from the weed in addition to the sceletium.

this morning on my way to work in the subway i administered only 2 pushes of spray and this was actually the dose i was looking for. very nice. (also the dose i had calculated..)

---

since the black stuff seems to be left behind and with the water becoming so active i thought of this: maybe one should test the precipitate which comes out of the cooling water for activity. this might even be an easy, nontoxic way of aquiring crystalline material from an ethanol extraction of sceletium.

 

I've seen other techniques to try and end up with the same thing, the only difference being they tried to extract only the mesembrine, as follows...

Ok here is some basic info based on some information from friend and literature. I am going to leave out volumes and weights because they depend on how much you are extracting but it becomes intuitive if you know what you are doing. I can give more details on this if needed but I do not think its so necessary. Anyway:

Extract 3 times with 0.05 M H2SO4

Defat 3 times with hexane (naptha will also work in this case)

Bring pH back to 11 with NH4OH (this can probaly be replaced with NaOH I see no reason why not)

Extract basic solution 3 times with DCM (this can probably also be replaced with toluene I would not recommend naptha or hexanes for this step as mesembrine is not very soluble in them)

You will be left with a brown/yellow oil containing mostly mesembrine and a few other alkaloids depending on the plant material, when it was harvested, and how it was processed. Now pure mesembrine freebase is an oil so if you want crystals you are going to have to make a salt. I have no information on this process. I also have no information on the safety profile except that sceletium is a very safe plant so I do not see why the alkaloids in crude form will be much more dangerous but please be careful with doses and salts as not much is not known about how the salts effect pharmacokinetics and dose etc.

The yield should be somewhere around 1% (I believe thats the concentration of alkaloids in good quality material.

 

So a kitchen type tek for Burnt's extraction would be,

1- Extract with 5% vinegar or other acid (probably to do an overnight crock-pot type extraction).

2- Defat with Naptha or other NP.

3- Base with ammonia to pH 11.

4- Pull with Toulene, Xylene or DCM.

5-(extra step) Salt out with Vinegar, HCl or Fumaric acid. Evaporate to yield the alkaloid salts.

 

For food grade you could use d-Limonene as your NPS, base with Sodium Carbonate or Lime (using a semi-dry tek) and salt out with Fumaric or Acetic acid.

However...

The ethanol idea seems to work great for a crude extract. You got almost the maximum normal yield anyway it should be around 1%. I would skip the other stuff I posted, which is more intended for purification, unless you want more pure stuff or want to do a very bulk extraction. Mesembrine is freely soluble in ethanol though so its expected.

 

Mesembrine drug info

Patent

A broad review of commercially important southern African medicinal plants.pdf

Assessing African medicinal plants for efficacy and safety pharmacological screening and toxicology.pdf

Cannabinoid CB1 receptor binding and acetylcholinesterase inhibitory activity of Sceletium tortuosum L..pdf

Investigations of the phytochemical content of Sceletium tortuosum following the preparation of “Kougoed” by fermentation of plant material.pdf

Review on plants with CNS-effects used in traditional South African medicine against mental diseases.pdf

Sceletium—A review update.pdf

Hope this helps

A broad review of commercially important southern African medicinal plants.pdf

Assessing African medicinal plants for efficacy and safety pharmacological screening and toxicology.pdf

Cannabinoid CB1 receptor binding and acetylcholinesterase inhibitory activity of Sceletium tortuosum L..pdf

Investigations of the phytochemical content of Sceletium tortuosum following the preparation of “Kougoed” by fermentation of plant material.pdf

Review on plants with CNS-effects used in traditional South African medicine against mental diseases.pdf

Sceletium—A review update.pdf

A broad review of commercially important southern African medicinal plants.pdf

Assessing African medicinal plants for efficacy and safety pharmacological screening and toxicology.pdf

Cannabinoid CB1 receptor binding and acetylcholinesterase inhibitory activity of Sceletium tortuosum L..pdf

Investigations of the phytochemical content of Sceletium tortuosum following the preparation of “Kougoed” by fermentation of plant material.pdf

Review on plants with CNS-effects used in traditional South African medicine against mental diseases.pdf

Sceletium—A review update.pdf

Edited November 20, 2010 by krazykungfu

[solomon]

thanks

attachments 4 & 6 are interesting.

[Yeti101]

Thanks! I'll do some experiments of my own...

[planthelper]

you quote:

Extract basic solution 3 times with DCM (this can probably also be replaced with toluene I would not recommend naptha or hexanes for this step as mesembrine is not very soluble in them)

but i think:

my findings are that it can't be replaced with toluene, you can only use dcm or chloroform, my preference is the latter.

nice info!

sceletium can produce halus, and nice ones they are!

let's just be moderate, we don't want scelly go like sally!!!

Edited November 22, 2010 by planthelper

[planthelper]

one thing i found out with kanna is that, cuttings are they way to go.

i think, that strangly cuttings from this plant might produce more growth than the mother plant if it was a seedling. but more so, it's important to take many cuttings of this plant because, of two reasons, one is that kanna plants can die suddenly (root root or old age) and the other is that youy need to grow at least 20 healthy plants or so to get enough material to ferment.

kanna cuttings are taken the same way as most cuttings, 3 or 4 node long tip cuttings, no humidety dome.

they strike quite fast, and are a very easy cutting to take (ideal for beginners).

if your plants produce only little material to work with, than you are best of to freeze your harverest in the fridge and wait for regrowth and repeat the process, and thats because, the more material you have to ferment the better the fermentation will be.

there seems to be a natural methode, of how to produce very strong sections of sceletium,

and what i call the "rim effect".

but one of the nice things with scelly is that one could just take more and more in little doses all over the day, till you are out on it. i'm proud to say to have been the first person to produce and try out kanna snuff, and the first person to report halus from it.

[krazykungfu]

A realy quick growing tip - I find these guys can take a fair bit of water for a succulent...

For over a year I watered mine sparingly (2+ days of dry soil before re-watering) and watched them grow very slowly...

I've since upped the water to almost daily, in the summer heat with well draining soil, and you can almost pull up a chair and watch them grow...

Hope it helps...