eckhart tolle: flowering of human consciousness

[incognito]

http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/93161509/eckhart+tolle+flowering+of+human+consciousness?tab=summary

I really dont go much on philosophers, new age 'gurus' and such.Its all a massive mind fuck that i cant understand generally. Ive come to like alot of what Eckhart says. It makes lot of sense, to me personally. Anyways ive really enjoyed this torrent and will bung it here if anyone else is interested.

I have heard that he tried acid once, after some people heard his teachings and said that is exactly how they feel when they are on acid. Eckhart replied that th acid made no difference to the way he perceives nature, reality and the universe as a whole. Its what its like all the time for him. Anyways i dig what he has to say, ive read his books and they have helped me out alot.

[Max Cady]

I started to read his book tittled "A new earth" and was totally immersed in it loved it when a friend gave me a burnt dvd of him giving a lecture or some kind of talk on the same book it killed it for me his style of dress his speech and the bells he decided to strike every now and then just killed it maybe I should get over it and try again but it seemed like he had to many props which made me reject the content of what he was saying because it appeared incongruent with his image.

maybe I should try again maybe not?

[incognito]

i dig his dress sense! for some reason he kinda reminds me of yoda! a guy who used to be a member here said to me the other day "i wouldnt put to much stock in teachings from someone who looks like they alphabetises their vests" haha.

i dunno he normally whips out the bells at the start of his lecture/teaching/preaching wtever, to help bring peoples attention to the prsent moment. im cool with that.

ive read 'new earth' and 'pwer of now' and feel ive got alot of insight from them. waching the dvds now islike a revision.

to be honest i think the guy is pretty well onto it.

[Max Cady]

maybe I should try the books again, but still not ready for the dvds

[sapito]

I have only read 'new earth' and I felt it really helped me realise the ability we have to release all the shitty emotions we for some reason choose to hold close.

I watched the start of a dvd and got super bored by his tone and form of presentation

[coin]

the issue I have with tolle's "neo-advaita" is that he doesn't offer technique.

i feel like his books & talks engender/strengthen a resonance with people, especially those who are ripe to awakening...and take them to a certain stage...to become ready for the next teacher/teaching/level of understanding

i think maybe he is a "bridge guru"

i'm not sure if it's a flaw.....it's probably not, because i feel he knows what effect and purpose his 'teachings' have. eckhart must know that as a "world guru" he has a particular purpose to serve, and some severely restricted limitations

but personally, i feel there are not too many people who are just ripe to awakening by hearing some conceptual teachings...his teachings all sound very nice, and challenge the conceptual framework

the issue being that he doesn't teach a path ... which is typical of advaitists/neo-advaitists -- they teach that "I Am That" / "Thou Art That" -- don't bother with aspiring, just let concepts drop, because what we may strive to be -- is already our essence....

personally I feel this is fine for people who are already in the midst of realisation, who are 'ripe', or who are quite balanced, and some 'lucky' ones (frequently unlucky if you ask them personally) just chance upon it....but honestly, people in the midst of kundalini awakening are probably going to need a whole lot more help than Tolle's reassuring words...and people who are a few steps behind are going to need to apply a whole lot more effort...i.e. if you're not willing to put 45 mins - 1 - 2 hours per day into meditation (building up from 5-10-15-20 minutes, over weeks or many months, etc.) and some extra time into understanding various texts and teachings - I think: good luck, maybe you won't be so complacent in the next life. i don't bother posting in the meditation threads here much, because a heap of people will say that the amount of time meditating is not important, as long as you're "in the present" (well that's very nice, but that's the whole point of practice -- most people can't stay in the present for more than 2-10 seconds! you have to train that), or that real meditation occurs when the technique drops away (yes it does once the mind becomes calm and peaceful and unified), but i'm tired of hearing those myths sometimes. put in the effort, start entering the jhanas, at least soft jhanas, or developing some real insight beyond the personal/psychological level, and then let's start calling it meditation. the minimum level you can start calling it meditation is so-called "access concentration" -- then move on to insight.

Neo-advaita as a philosophy or belief system is a total waste of time (imho) .... only the smallest portion of the populace will 'click' through by taking on these ideas....for the rest, it's *hard* work.

The mind trapped in dualism can not adopt non-dualism in any other way than conceptually, and it is still an inferior, non-experiential understanding...which is basically no understanding at all.

Edited September 16, 2010 by coin

[paradox]

the issue I have with tolle's "neo-advaita" is that he doesn't offer technique.

 

yeah i know what you mean, & i agree with most of what you say but i think he does offer very practical techniques that can help a great deal with everyday, moment to moment mindfulness... for that alone i think his 'teachings' could be a very valuable piece of the picture for many people.. that said, if you truly want to break the shackles of your ignorance & free yourself from suffering then as you say i strongly doubt for most people that is going to be enough, but there is no shortage of age old techniques out there which offer very effective frameworks for a more serious & focused practice/path..

we are in the privileged position right now in history of having just about all the worlds traditions & teachings at our fingertips to study if we choose.. any teachers who have anything worthwhile to listen to are all pointing to the same 'truth' & i think it's wise to glean from all the diverse perspectives on that 'truth'.. of course there can also be too much choice, which is why as far as technique goes i think it's important to find a practice that works for you & stick with it, but as far as philosophy & tricks for recognizing your own ignorance from moment to moment in everyday life then diversity is wonderful & for that reason i feel the issue you raised about Tolle is not as detrimental to the value of his work as it may seem

[incognito]

i think what hes trying to say is there is no "technique" weve already got what we need.

almost a form of cbt. not paying any attention to the negative aspects of ourselves 'ego' and instead giving all attention and presence to the divine 'joy' 'stillness' within us all. as it is practiced the go disapates and u are left with joy and stillness (peace). what im gathering anyhoo. as far as cbt goes its about recognising the thought patterns that lead to our discontent, the fighting within ourselves, and choosing something else.

[coin]

paradox, i definitely agree with you in regard to our "global spiritual culture"...it's an amazing time we live in

i will say again, that a mind entrapped in dualism cannot conceive of non-dualism...there is absolutely no point in trying....it will never, ever work....it is a philosophy only and not an experiential basis of truth.

i think I forgot to say that I really like and respect Tolle?

to say there is no technique - what can i say...this is typical neo-advaita speak...in this day and age, how can i stress this more?? we have to work a whole fucking lot harder than that....the sort of subtle, instant turn-around of consciousness that occurs by listening only to the words of an awakened teacher, i honestly thing is a rare and unlikely event in this time. the great spiritual geniuses of the past didn't just have a little mental 'pop' where a few words transformed their entire perception of reality....they often went through hell (because their transformation was highly accelerated) ! that is dark night territory....how many get to bypass that? i would certainly like to know!! maybe we are talking about the difference between real spiritual awakening and just feeling a bit more connected to everyone and the trees and life around us.

Tolle says again and again, that him being in the room & talking about "it" is totally pointless....his teachings are just a finger pointing to the moon...I totally get that he gets it.

At the same time, I feel like there is only 1 in 1000 people that will read/attend a teaching by Tolle and get the 'click' in the transformation of consciousness...and again 1 in 1000 of those people for whom that is enough to awaken into non-duality...those few have been ripe for a long time. for the rest, it is awakening into possibility, and is largely intellectual, which, of course, is a fine place to start. One of the major aspects of Tolle's teachings is opening the minds of Christians.

if you look at spiritual traditions where there are enlightenment events...even the awakening isn't that simple....the mind blows out, and the bliss can carry on for days, weeks or months, but then there's such a strong current for it to pull back in again....they have to keep practicing, keep hearing teaching, keep receiving shaktipat (energetic transmissions from the guru), keep reading the non-dual texts, etc. so i think we're talking about different things.

almost a form of cbt. not paying any attention to the negative aspects of ourselves 'ego' and instead giving all attention and presence to the divine 'joy' 'stillness' within us all.

the issue i have with this is --- "good luck" ... how many people can just hear Tolle's voice, have it all make sense, and then just drop it (ego). If the average person can just hear some nice words that intellectually make sense and from that moment on "give attention only to presence, joy and stillness" - that is who I am talking about who is already 'ripe'. For the rest of us normal folk, you have to put in the effort, the work, the hours!! I think it's deluded, lazy, and quick-fix "Westernized" to think otherwise. The weird thing is that it's total application and total letting go, at once. Complete dedication to practice but simultaneously completely free of desire or expectation for any result.

but as far as philosophy & tricks for recognizing your own ignorance from moment to moment in everyday life then diversity is wonderful & for that reason i feel the issue you raised about Tolle is not as detrimental to the value of his work as it may seem

I absolutely agree...his work is wonderful and I think it will be very interesting to see how it is perceived in the next 10-15 years

I think my view is lost & unpopular again, so I should just shut up....online discussion of these things is pretty tricky

[coin]

by the way - incognito - i think you are ripe don't you think?

[nothinghead]

Interesting discussion!

I have a question for Coin: You write about the hours of practice of technique that must be put in to achieve spiritual awakening, and imply that the next life might not be so nice if you're not willing to put the effort in, in this one. You also imply that non-dualist thought is an important facet of spiritual awakening. I'm curious about how the idea of something that outlives the body (to manifest in a next life) is reconciled with the idea of non-dualist thought. It seems to me that the body/mind split is relegated to a body-mind/spirit split when we talk about comprehending non-dualist thought as a part of spiritual awakening in this life which will then have effects when passing from this life into the next...

To rephrase the last statement, in case it isn't clear, I mean, isn't thinking that some part of us survives/is transformed into a next life a style of dualist thought?

[coin]

isn't thinking that some part of us survives/is transformed into a next life a style of dualist thought?

totally a mind-stream is not a soul tho

but i am not an enlightened being lol...i am the avatar of averageness....as you can probably tell from my previous posts..i am someone putting in the hours, and finding it hard - hard in all the dreary ways that have been classically mapped out...what more can i say other than that i can't feel special about it

there is no mind/body 'split' - that's just a division of convenience...i think that no-part of us survives, ever ... like yesterday doesn't hang around with us, but secondary traces of its impressions certainly do

i'd like to hear more about your impressions...i don't totally get your second last sentence..i think you repeated yourself? (It seems to me that the body/mind split is relegated to a body-mind/spirit split)

i can only vaguely speak of this life really

(love you avatar pic btw)

Edited September 19, 2010 by coin

[nothinghead]

Thanks for the response, I'm only speaking vaguely and trying to figure things out, too. The last part of what I said was a little convoluted, I couldn't think of another way to phrase it, I think phrasing thoughts about abstract stuff is always a little tricky since the words we need to use might not exactly match the ideas we are trying to communicate.

I presumed that you supposed there was a part of us which transcends the death of the body to live on in a next life. Knowing that you are of the opinion that we are non-dualist beings (in the sense of the body/mind dualism being nothing more than a convenient metaphor) I suggested that a part of us that lives on beyond the death of the body requires another dualism; not body/mind dualism necessarily, but a dichotomy between the nondualistic body-mind which dies, and the soul (or transcendent element) which lives on. I see now, though, that you weren't asserting a transcendent part of ourself (which would imply dualism since the physical part of ourself inevitably dies).

I was curious about whether displacing one dualist system of thought just makes room for another: if we get rid of the body/mind split and replace it with a singularity which can be thought of as made up of various elements like body/mind/water/thought/soul/transience/whatever, do we then need to set up another binary of being/transcendence to replace the body/mind binary, so that we can talk about things like this life and other lives (next lives, past lives, or whatever).

[nothinghead]

PS Your avatar is sweet, too, Studio Ghibli is rad.

[incognito]

lolol ripe? and i just changed to the new Lynx 'u will drown in punani juice' b.o basher!!

i dunno coin. i am really starting to think its not that hard, i think thats another egoic construc that peace of mind, and true real happyness is something that has to be worked for and earned. Dont get me wrong im far from an enlightened being lol. I feel its not so much his words or tolle himself for that matter, but the meaning and truth within the words that has resonated with me.

I mean u could spend the rest of ur life trying to be at peace, reading this book and that book, going to retreats, dieting on this or that,following this line of thinking or that line of thinking (there be the problem, to much thinking haha) where i really think peace and joy is our true selves. everything else is just really bullshit and stuff we think we are.

Anyways, theres only so much u can rant on with this kind of stuff.

And the things tolle talks about isnt new. People have been expressing it for 1000's of yrs. All the great teachers, jebus, buddha, lao tzu etc etc. I dont see tolle as any kind of guru or whatever. the man really is insignificant to the wisdom that ive resonated with anyhoo. I think (maybee) like jebus, he was like "im just a man, what i have done, can do, so can you.

But i really dont think its that hard, the more u try to figure it out and sort it all out in ur head, the more frustrating and hard to obtai it is.

I read tolle for the first time a yr and a half ago, when i would say was the lowest time of my life. without over dramatising things i was ready to neck myself. ID lost everything that i defined myself with, everything that told me who i was, and i was terrified. I was burning up. I walked past the bookstore and happened in, and they had A New Earth out the front on display. I just bought it. 34 beans i think. Fir me it was an incredibly hard book to read. Something in me didnt want me to read it. Id get 2 paragraphs and my 'egoic would just destroy me. But i got through it 12 months later.

I then got power of now, and i really think the last few months things have just kinda slip in place. touch wood.

It reat to be free of that mind-noise. Just random stupid thoughts, most not even full thoughts, just goin round and round and round and round, and you, making your idea of who you are from that jambled bullshit. Its fucking rediculous, its torture, it is insanity. And i do think that could just be the flaw that we unfortunately have been born with, but hopefully, a flaw which we as a species will evolve from.

At first i didnt want to be apart from those random torturous toughts. I didnt want to lose that! crazy hey? cos i guess its who u think you are. That way of "destructive noise" for lack of better words, who i thought i was, clung to me also.

I still have my moments. BUt really what ive enjoyed lately, now that i no longer identify who i am with my thoughts, and ive queitened my mind to a state of stillness, is truly something. I can feel that joy. Its feels fucking amazing.

I love it when i lay on my bed before i go to sleep and feel it in te centre of my body, this aliveness, so warm, feels so good. I feel it fill my body, and i dunno this is so corny and by no means do i want to be talking myself up, but i feel radiant, like i am radiating, a spiritual being. andd no drugs!!! actually id say this experience of "being" my true self, feeling my spirit, being in that moment of joy and peace, is better than any psychadelic/altered experience i have ever had. times by say 1 trillion.

I really hope i dont lose this, and hope im not going bi-polar haha.

But yeah seeing the rediculousness of identifying who i am with what i think has been a truly liberating point in my life.