What am I doing wrong?

[Ilovecacti]

I've recently bought some different types of cacti seed from SAB, but I have not been able to get ANY to germinate, I've tried some different soil mixes but nothing has worked yet, this is my set-up:

The heated pad is set to 27 degrees all day then I turn it off at night time and it drops to about 18.

Is it because there isn't enough light? Because I live in South Australia it's very difficult to buy the proper growing lights (you can buy the globes but the holders are illegal to sell), or have I missed an important step?

I've been able to sprout some bamboo and a palm in the same setup.

[dworx]

Could be a little to wet, I normally use a fine sand based soil amd just sprinkle the seed on top of the soil - don't bury the seed. Warmth is more important than light at seed stage, humidity - I don't let my chamber get enough water to drip from the roof to the seed. That's just me though maybe someone has differing views its just what works for me, and don't let three year old near your chamber they have a nasty habit of upturning the whole thing..

[ENtiTY]

Simplest way is to use chinese containers and a washed coarse sharp sand.

3/4 fill your containers with sand, level, moisten through (this is the tricky bit, trial and error here I'm affraid), put on the lid and microwave for 3-4 minutes to sterilize and let cool. Once cool pop off the lid and sow your seed, shallow (2-3mm) is best for most all cacti I have had experience with but do some research for the species you are propagating. Once sown wash in with some anti-fungal solution being mindful of the amount of moisture your adding. Pop the lid back on and place on heat mat.

Not sure if cacti need light to germinate but there gonna need it once their up so you might as well try and get some lights. Cacti seedlings don't need blazing light intensity, I used and aquarium light for my cacti propagation antics, that was even a little bright for them.

Best of luck

[kinato]

I am about to start a cactus grow, and I don't have a heat mat. Should I wait until summer, or is there another substitute?

[kindness]

a sunny window. on top of your water heater, (if inside and electric style). inside with a bedside light aimed at it with a compact fluoro globe, (will give light and create some heat... go for cool white globes).

I only use the method mentioned by harry - tried other more elaborate ways with plastic zip lock bags, seed raising trays etc... too much effort and no good results compared to take away food container method. Only difference for me to the method outlined is that I don't have a microwave - so I get a good quality cactus potting mix, sieve a quantity so I have some really fine stuff for the top of the containers, bung said cactus mix in, (un sieved) to about half way up containers you will be filling - then tip that into an oven/baking dish - then bung the sieved stuff in another baking dish...

now - completely saturate these two pans with the soil in em till there is water showing etc - it doesn't really matter as you are about to put this in the oven for an hour or so at 180.

once done and a bit cool - take coarser stuff and put it in containers... then take sieved stuff and put it on top, say hmmm 5mm or so. Then you will have to work out if you think the soil still has enough moisture in it to carry your seeds through for a while.. I like to have my mix kinda wet. If the soil dried out totally... just spray it wet again with a spray mister thing, ($2 from the supermarket) now that you are all pasteurized and moist, (mmmmmm) take loph/echinopsis/small usually hard to raise cacti seed and place on a small plate or something.. then get a match - lick the wooden end of the match and touch this to a seed... the seed should stick to the match.. then gently push the seed into your prepared containers.. I like to put them in rows I don't usually bury my seed... I kinda just push it in so it's top is level with the general surface of the soil.

anyhow, this has worked for me in the past.

peace

[kinato]

a sunny window. on top of your water heater, (if inside and electric style). inside with a bedside light aimed at it with a compact fluoro globe, (will give light and create some heat... go for cool white globes).

I only use the method mentioned by harry - tried other more elaborate ways with plastic zip lock bags, seed raising trays etc... too much effort and no good results compared to take away food container method. Only difference for me to the method outlined is that I don't have a microwave - so I get a good quality cactus potting mix, sieve a quantity so I have some really fine stuff for the top of the containers, bung said cactus mix in, (un sieved) to about half way up containers you will be filling - then tip that into an oven/baking dish - then bung the sieved stuff in another baking dish...

now - completely saturate these two pans with the soil in em till there is water showing etc - it doesn't really matter as you are about to put this in the oven for an hour or so at 180.

once done and a bit cool - take coarser stuff and put it in containers... then take sieved stuff and put it on top, say hmmm 5mm or so. Then you will have to work out if you think the soil still has enough moisture in it to carry your seeds through for a while.. I like to have my mix kinda wet. If the soil dried out totally... just spray it wet again with a spray mister thing, ($2 from the supermarket) now that you are all pasteurized and moist, (mmmmmm) take loph/echinopsis/small usually hard to raise cacti seed and place on a small plate or something.. then get a match - lick the wooden end of the match and touch this to a seed... the seed should stick to the match.. then gently push the seed into your prepared containers.. I like to put them in rows I don't usually bury my seed... I kinda just push it in so it's top is level with the general surface of the soil.

anyhow, this has worked for me in the past.

peace

 

Thanks a lot kindness, now all I need to do is order some Chinese takeout. XD

[bℓσωηG]

They should at least germinate without light ,I know the setup you have because I use the same heat pad and seed propagators... you know some seed may be just old and have poor germination rates , try a few different sources and try your luck. You're on the right track just get a fluoro or two , youll be laughing.

[kindness]

I'll second that. On the fluoro and seed quality note. I haven't had as much fun growing cactus as when i had a double fluoro batten, (2ft) setup. They pumped. Now mine are all going the hard grown route and it just isn't as interesting - certainly not the same as watching pups starting to show and morphing out of the mumma loph in a week or two

oh I forgot to add that in the above method i outlined you gotta put the lid on at the end, (after you sow the seed) you don't water em' after they have been sown till somewhere down the track when you decide what you will be doing with the seedlings. I have kept loph and echinopsis seedlings in takeaway containers for way too long and they have survived just fine. I'm talking months n' months.

best of luck kinato and Ilovecacti. and welcome to the forum I hope you find what you are looking for here and the growing tips gained benefit the plants you cultivate as much as yourselves as it has me.

peace

[bℓσωηG]

I have kept loph and echinopsis seedlings in takeaway containers for way too long and they have survived just fine. I'm talking months n' months.

 

Yeah i usually start mine in take away containers too with lids, as they grow they need a bit more air exchange so I poke/drill little holes in the lids, but when the top of the seedlings touches the lids i take them off and use the propagator lid. Takeaway containers are the go, I buy new ones from a $2 dollar shop.

[mutant]

Maybe you burried them too much? [most people don't burry them at all or just sprinkle just a bit sand over them]

Maybe the gravel has kept them from showing up [yet]?

Poor/old seed?

Too high temperature [maybe it's hotter in the dome]?

How many days have passed from sowing?

[Micromegas]

Hey ilovecacti if you want to speed things up you can find large infestations of agave americana on the side of the road through most of SA. Just dig up a few clumps with roots and hey presto, as much tequila as you would like or an interesting and hardy garden specimen. Normally i would not recommend the taking of plants from the roadside but as these agaves can form 50m patches in the middle of nowhere there's really no problem. blue varieties or the green and yellow variant, blue is much more common in the country, yellow and green in the city. be careful where you plant em tho they can get massive and in 30 years another out of control patch is created! I would save the difficulty of seed growing for the lophs and trichs.

good luck with those seeds.

[bℓσωηG]

large infestations of agave americana on the side of the road through most of SA. Just dig up a few clumps with roots and hey presto

hey yeah i didnt notice you were trying to grow Agave americana from seed, theyre pretty common here too and pups can be transplanted real easy, you need some space like Micromegas says, they soon outgrow the pot. Ill send you one if you pay postage lol, got heaps...

Edited August 25, 2010 by blowng

[Ilovecacti]

Thanks to everyone who replied.

They should at least germinate without light ,I know the setup you have because I use the same heat pad and seed propagators... you know some seed may be just old and have poor germination rates , try a few different sources and try your luck. You're on the right track just get a fluoro or two , youll be laughing.

 

There's other types in the other dome too, I wouldn't have thought that they all would be too old, does SAB often sell old seed?

Maybe you burried them too much?

Maybe the gravel has kept them from showing up [yet]?

Poor/old seed?

Too high temperature [maybe it's hotter in the dome]?

How many days have passed from sowing?

 

I just sowed them on the surface, poking them in very slightly with a bamboo skewer. The gravel is only on that one punnet and it's a thin layer. The temperature inside the dome is about 27 degrees, I have a thermometer in there, my pad is set to maximum (40) but it doesn't ever go any higher than 27 inside the dome. It's been 25 days now from sowing and still not one has germinated.

Hey ilovecacti if you want to speed things up you can find large infestations of agave americana on the side of the road through most of SA. Just dig up a few clumps with roots and hey presto, as much tequila as you would like or an interesting and hardy garden specimen. Normally i would not recommend the taking of plants from the roadside but as these agaves can form 50m patches in the middle of nowhere there's really no problem. blue varieties or the green and yellow variant, blue is much more common in the country, yellow and green in the city. be careful where you plant em tho they can get massive and in 30 years another out of control patch is created! I would save the difficulty of seed growing for the lophs and trichs.

good luck with those seeds.

 

Thanks for that I didn't realize those massive agaves that grow around the place were americana genus I'll find an out of control growth and give it a haircut

Edited August 27, 2010 by Ilovecacti

[gerbil]

Pm me your postal details and i'll send you a little bit of pachanoi (PC) x bridgesii (psycho0) hybrid seed, fresh from last season.

I've heard little to no viability issues with one specific species that comes to mind of SAB seed, non-cacti, but i've had good rates with the seed i've ordered off them some time ago, it would fluctuate between species and demand of seed stock, if it is a viability issue it would be worth letting T know, but it's often hard to tell what's what, it could be your method and timing, it could be seed.

Where about is your thermometer, flat on the mat itself?, it can give misleading readings depending on location, soil and air temperature differ, i think soil temp is usually a few degrees lower than air temp, but heat mats change that, soil temp would be higher than air temp, which would change the further up the soil profile you get. You don't want high temp and lots of wet, it'll lead to baking them or rotting them. Lophs can germinate with higher temps, but too high will cook them too, i've found good loph germ at same conditions to trich. Even within a good viable seed batch, i've also had some punnets flush heavy, whilst the same seed in another was crap, probably a moisture, heat and light issue in my case.

Sounds like you didn't poke them in too far which is good, but not far can be a personal observation that differs.

At the moment i'm using a 60:40 coir:prop. sand mix, well moistened but no sopping wet, nuke it for about 6 minutes in the microwave (then load into containers if nuked outside of containers), close container lid and let cool, open to surface sow and just settle them in with misting from a water sprayer, then close again and keep warm and brightly lit, but not direct sun.

[mutant]

Sounds like you've done everything more or less OK. Dunno about the heat mat though... I never used it, even when I sowed in cold days of winter.

[Evil Genius]

Hi ILOVECACTI. Not sure whats wrong with your germination rates but the greenhouses are way too wet. When i plant some seeds, i sprinkle them on top of the soil and and spray a little bit water over it. You just want to see a fine mist on the lid, when the water condensates.

Not sure about your soil. It could be great for mature cacti but i wouldnt use it for seedlings. It looks like you could stone somebody with these rocks. But thats secondary as you dont even have germinations. You should even have SOME sign of life there. Even if you grow them on the sidewalk.

check the seeds. Seriously. Maybe your seed was in a too hot enviroment during the transport or something like that. The SAB seed has great germination rates because most of it is very fresh. Torsten is very careful about selling seed that has unclear germination rates. Like the one from Knize for example. He sorts out the ones that are dull. Maybe you can send a few seeds to someone here who can check the viability for you.

You dont need heating pads for germinating cacti. Sure, if you have the right seeds it works better but some dont need or want that amount of heat. I germinated countless lophs and i always had problems germinating them when temperature was coming near 30 degrees. bye EG

[nothinghead]

I've had nothing but good results with seed bought from SAB.

I agree with EG on his points. With the amount of condensation showing on those pictures it looks like your setup is pretty warm/hot and your mix is pretty wet. A humid environment is necessary for good germination, but it doesn't need to be completely saturated. I've run into problems using heat mats before, even small ones, because on warm days they heat up too much and can destroy seeds or freshly germinated seedlings. The super coarse mix you have has a lot of larger pieces in it which can store heat and grow quite warm. Perhaps a layer of coarse sand on top would be good to sow in. I ended up using some layers of cloth between the mat and the seed trays to insulate them from the heat, reducing temperatures in the germination chamber.

[mac]

Some seeds do need light exposure to germinate & some can take much longer than expected,

I would put them in a nice sunny position & let the soil almost dry out then re mist & see how they go

I have also had some old seeds i thought failed germinate the next season, so if you have no success keep the soil in a big plastic tub or reuse it topdressing larger pots & you may still have a few germinate eventually

[Ilovecacti]

Here are some pictures of what's in the other dome and the positioning of the thermometer, also I opened the side vents on the domes, does the moisture levels inside look a bit better now?

Edited August 31, 2010 by Ilovecacti

[nothinghead]

Still looks pretty wet, why not lift the pots out and soak up the excess moisture from the tray and lid with a towel

[Ilovecacti]

Still looks pretty wet, why not lift the pots out and soak up the excess moisture from the tray and lid with a towel

 

Ok I completely dried the domes of any water and put them back over with the vents open, we'll see what the moisture levels are like tomorrow

[mutant]

Ι don't want to disappoint you, but if what went wrong was the combo of too much heat + too wet, the seed might be partly or even completely fucked up.

[vual]

I would use a lighter soil, persionaly i dont grow my cactus seeds with rocks, i get great germination rates using my local "trade mix" soil just a shitty cheapo $30 per Sm3, half fill a pot with soil, spray the soil with a hair spray container (with water.. clean..) about 6 times so the soil is wet, then spinkle the seeds on top (dont cover with dirt or anything) then place "Cling Wrap" over the pot and stickytape it on, stick the pot under 1 CFL el-cheapo energy saver light for 24hrs a day.. you will see seedlings in under a week.

Good luck! Love your setup!! though like others have mentioned defiantly to WET.

Edited September 1, 2010 by vual

[Ethos]

ilovecacti your setup looks ace besides high humidity level which i also had problems with but then dried my soil out and adjusted the moisture level, put them back under two cfl's with an average temp of 28 and lighting 13 1/2 hour days and i checked them this morning and a couple of them have started to germinate. first planted on saturday 28th so its been almost a week

goodluck with your seeds we all hope to hear good news from you

[Ilovecacti]

Ok guys I'm going to write off what I've planted, I didn't use all of the seeds I bought but there's not many left so I'll try again with the remainder.

This time I'm going to try a mix of propagating sand and peat moss only, no rocks or perlite, and I'll keep the moisture levels down and run it a little cooler, if there's any results I'll post them here, thanks for all the replies.