sucess with sub cultivation

[nut]

are sub really as hard to cultivate as i hear,any info out there ????

[Moses]

if you mean startin a backyard patch, no that's easy

if you mean inside cultivation sorry cant help you there

[obtuse]

as moses as has pointed out, outdoor cultivation is doable, either as backyard patch or creating another patch etc.

subs are very close to azurescens in behaviour, but my understanding is that they have a higher fruiting temp, and more tolerant of general conditions, soil substrate etc.

but from what i have read they still require a fairly specific microclimate, and there has been mention of them needing the necessary bacteria in the soil that they have a sort of symbiotic relationship with. as has been said of azurescens.

growing mycelium is easy, a no brainer. getting them to the required temperature that should initiate pinning is also easy. but it seems as though there is some other factor to get them to then fruit. whether it is some bacteria in the soil and/or some other symbiotic relationship (i.e a host grass) is still being researched.

whatever the story is, it would be a lot easier just to keep an eye on outdoor patches for photographing these amazingly beautiful fungi.

cheers, Ob.

[Distracted]

Not many people have managed to get away with indoor sub cultivation, the best I can remember ended up doing it inside a shed during the winter period anyway, which I feel is where the main problems stem from.

The easiest method for cultivating an outdoor patch from a wild specimen that i've seen has to be the hessian tek.

Grab some wild mycelial growth, not too much as you really don't want to damage this stuff in the wild and spread it along a rolled out hessian sack. Then roll the sack up and bag it up. After a month or two in the optimal conditions the mycelium should spread along the sack, in which case you roll it out and cover it with the optimal substrate of hardwood/hardwood sawdust... maybe some vermiculite too. Then cover that again with a plastic tarp for some months... once the fruiting conditions have come round then you uncover and hope for the best

For more detailed info try looking it up.

Otherwise you're looking at growing out the myclium in quart jars or grow bags and spawning outdoors to the woodchips anyway.

This is all very generic advice suitable for growing most non-symbiotic outdoor mushrooms.

[nut]

fantastic info guys.have been thinking bout recreating climate using modified fridge,apart from symbiotic relations with bacteria which is news to me has anyone noticed the white worms which are very common in subs from south west aus.they will eat your specimens in days if you dont start a preservation procedure rapidly.is there any info on the role these grubs/worms play in the sub life cycle,is this just a west aus occurance.mycellium growth is easy and rapid and appears to occur at higher temps the fruiting occurs in the wild.is the mycellium growth active as ive heard,there apperars to be sum confusion as to what we have in the south west aus,i will post some pics soon,im sure they are subs but taxonomy seems to shift rather rapidly

[satyr]

This link might help....

My link

http://www.shroomery.org/35/Caramel-Cap-Woodlovers

Edited January 21, 2010 by satyr

[obtuse]

here are a couple of posts over at mycotopia:

http://forums.mycotopia.net/growing-mushrooms-outdoors-hunting-wild-shrooms/15169-subaeruginosa-azurescens.html

http://forums.mycotopia.net/exotic-magic-mushroom-species-woodlovers/5194-subaeruginosa-indoor.html

I have been trying to track down the reference to azurescens needing bacteria in the soil:

best reference i can find is this, but i was sure it was on mycotopia, oh well:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6065358#6065358

There is heaps of amazing info at mycotopia just got to have a good hunt around.

[obtuse]

here are a couple more links. not specifically related to azurescens or subs, but mentions microbes in the soil as a possibility:

Workmans efforts with ovoideocystidiata: http://forums.mycotopia.net/exotic-magic-mushroom-species-woodlovers/22556-psilocybe-ovoideocystidiata-bethany-outdoors.html

http://forums.mycotopia.net/fungi-growing-edible-medicinal-magic-mushrooms/54740-indoor-woodlovers.html

Another Shroomery reference, from Workman:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7517609

Cheers, Ob.

[Distracted]

fantastic info guys.have been thinking bout recreating climate using modified fridge,apart from symbiotic relations with bacteria which is news to me has anyone noticed the white worms which are very common in subs from south west aus.they will eat your specimens in days if you dont start a preservation procedure rapidly.is there any info on the role these grubs/worms play in the sub life cycle,is this just a west aus occurance.mycellium growth is easy and rapid and appears to occur at higher temps the fruiting occurs in the wild.is the mycellium growth active as ive heard,there apperars to be sum confusion as to what we have in the south west aus,i will post some pics soon,im sure they are subs but taxonomy seems to shift rather rapidly

 

If you're going to try and cultivate in a fridge you NEED to sterilize the fridge OCD style. Your fridge is the most contaminated area in your house. Chances are that you're talking about subs, there were a few different types of woodloving psilocybes but they've mainly been lumped into the sub category.

Ie P. Eucalypta, P. Australiana... and such spelling aside.

Here is a must have for sub cultivation info.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10748023#10748023

Personally i'd take the agar approach from a wild specimen, either from spores, a fresh cutting or hydrated/cleaned dry mushroom.

Something to note though... P. Subaeruginosa is really really hard to cultivate... imo stick with cubes till you're confident

[nut]

 

i was planning a dedicated fridge for that purpose only,so no one has seen these worms i talk about???.ill post sum pictures from some south west aus specimens.i think one of the above comments with regards to a relationship with grass is obvious in some of these fotos,what that relations ship is im unsure,poss sumthing as simple a a humidity trap???having said that ive found em growing free of grass with exposure to a fair bit of direct sunlight

[obtuse]

mmm nice pics.

those worms, you dont mean maggots do you. As it it would be expected these would inhabit the mushrooms fairly early on.

Of course the relationship with the grass would be a combination of as a humidity trap but also moisture trap, but i also wonder if the microbes discussed also inhabit the plant roots in a greater abundance than in just plain soil.

Also, i dont think you would need a dedicated fridge. you would only need the fridge in order to lower temperatures enough to start pinning, then you would want to remove your tubs (or whatever your using). you would also consider other factors like free air exchange and humidity like any other mushroom.

Cheers, Ob.

Edited January 22, 2010 by obtuse

[shruman]

Why indoor cultivation?, I do'nt see any real point aside from bragging rites or the fun of the challenge. Outdoors woodlovers are piss easy to cultivate (azurescens anyway) as long as you get cold enough & indoors cubensis is easy, even pan cyans would be easy compared to woodlovers indoors.

They do like the relationship with the grass, FOAF found you got lots of small fruits in the grass & fewer larger fruits off the straight chips. You can see some examples here: http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=21351&view=&hl=azure&fromsearch=1

Foaf has found in direct contact with the ground they do much better than in tubs or boxes but I put this down to temperature & water holding capacities as I had'nt heard about any symbiosis with microbes but it makes sense.

Yeah sound like maggots dude.

Anyway best of luck with it mate, whatever route you take. Pretty pics.

[nut]

the challenge and that they the most active and common in the south west,got cubes on the way,just have a bit of a 16 year love affair with subs.is everyone in agreement by the way that these are indeed subs.the grub and does look like a grub,not a worm thats for sure,has alwys interested me,but as i said start a drying procedure or youll get burnt by these little sobs,they huge fans of the gill area so i asume they injest spores and am curious if they may in fact help spread em.im may try and raise sum to c if they pupate into sumthing else.just guna have to sacrifice sum of me beloveds :BANGHEAD2:subs in the south west at best conditions are still not huge in abundance so a reliable source is what i want!!!!!!!

Edited January 23, 2010 by nut

[Bush Turkey]

.is everyone in agreement by the way that these are indeed subs.to c if they pupate into sumthing else.just guna have to

 

the first pic doesnt really look like subs but i cant enlarge it to have a proper look. it looks like the ones ya find heaps of looking for subs. hollow weaks stems? the other pics are subs

[obtuse]

yes they are all subs.

the first shot is of highly water logged example. yes weak and brittle stems, and the discoloured caps are signs of this.

do you have pics of the grubs. i still say maggots esp. if eating the gills

cheers, Ob.

[reshroomED]

Subs are notoriously hard to fruit in-vitro.

I spent well over two years trying this to no avail (and I live in an area that they happily fruit naturally).

Tried everything that I could think of, but never achieved a single fruit. FWIW, of the dozens of substrates I tried, manfern/treefern husks were by far the best.

The grubs would appear to be fungus gnat larvae, and I've had them leave several hundred shrooms as small piles of powder on more than one occasion. Higher temps when drying (say over 25C) tend to kill them outright or leave them dormant - only ever had them eat my harvest when drying at ambient temp (winter so sub 20C).

Good luck with your endeavours,

ed

[nut]

interesting,same patch same day,yep hollow fairly woody stems and potent as all hell.ive got more fotos ill post soon.im suss on the fact that theres sposed to be just subs in the south west for a few reasons.

[Zen Peddler]

but from what i have read they still require a fairly specific microclimate, and there has been mention of them needing the necessary bacteria in the soil that they have a sort of symbiotic relationship with. as has been said of azurescens.

Doubtful - its more to do with the types of woods they like to exploit. Subs seem to like common Auistralian mulches but also pinus radiata bark and debris. On the other hand Ps.cyanescens and Ps.azurescens seem to require hardwoods like hickory and alder.

In Melbourne Victoria, subs began to fruit quit early whereas the cyans and azures didnt fruit until mid June and only after frost. Their fruitbodies seemed chunkier and more robust whereas the subs were the usual smaller variety. Also of interest is the colour of the stems - subs have grey-flecked stems whereas the imports both had dead white stems. Subs fruit readily in a melb garden on any local debris, even rose clippings. Azures and cyans refused to fruit on anything but an anerican hardwood (smoking chips) substrate and did not travel from that patch on to pine bark mulch or any other substrates.

I can also safely say from my own microscopic work that Ps.australiana and ps.eucalypta are synonymous and that the cystidial characteristics used to differentiate these two entities range from one to the other and all had lechniform cystidia - like globes on an arm.

Ps.subaeruginosa is quite similar under a scope to Ps.cyanescens but they arent the same species id wager.