tripsis Posted January 3, 2010 I'm keen to try my hand at grafting. A friend has some pereskiopsis he's nice enough to give me, so I'll use that, but I also have a few small Trichs which I'd like to use. I just have a couple of questions regarding the use of them. They are all around 30cm or so tall. Should I just cut the very tip off and graft to that, or would it be better to cut them in half, graft lower down and replant the upper halves? Can you graft to an unrooted cutting? Once grafted, is it better to leave indoors or out? Does it need humidity to take? Finally, when placing the scion to the stock, all you need to do in ensure the vascular rings overlap, correct? Is there anything else I'm missing? I'm going to have a thorough read of Teo's Little Book of Grafting before I attempt anything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bℓσωηG Posted January 3, 2010 i found this helpful http://forum.auscactiforum.net/specialist-cultivation-f31/how-to-graft-cacti-larger-scions-t54.htm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted January 3, 2010 Great, thanks for the link, it's a good pictorial. Do you know whether the stock needs to be rooted? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bℓσωηG Posted January 3, 2010 im pretty sure it doesnt ,but i think it helps if it is....actively growing is best...ive only done a handful myself ,find myself lacking stock mostly..i did have a link on it somewhere but this is all i could find where they dont use rooted cuts for stock with opuntia... http://www.cactus-art.biz/technics/Grafting_on_opuntia_compressa_step_by_step.htm got to get me some prickly pear seeds ,i like what they do Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace Posted January 3, 2010 Should I just cut the very tip off and graft to that, or would it be better to cut them in half, graft lower down and replant the upper halves? I always let the stock cutting get to around 30cm, then chop around 10-15cm from the base. This gives you a decent stock and enough of a cutting to make a steady start and ready to do anoth graft in a month or two. Can you graft to an unrooted cutting? I've never tried it, however I think it has been done by other members with success. I agree with blowng in that it is always best to use an actively growing specimen and it is best to work with a rooted stock. Once grafted, is it better to leave indoors or out? Does it need humidity to take? I put a wet drinking glass over the top (ensure enough room so it doesn't crush the scion and there is no gap around the base of the glass/soil) and sit in a shady spot outdoors. The idea behind wetting the glass (using ordinary tap water) is to ensure a nice humid enclosure so the scion doesn't dry out and helps to form a clean graft. Finally, when placing the scion to the stock, all you need to do in ensure the vascular rings overlap, correct? Is there anything else I'm missing? That's pretty much it. Use a clean, sharp knife (wipe with metho and let dry before making each cut). Bevel both the stock and scion to make sure the grafting surfaces stay connected. Overlapping rings is vital to a fast growing, successful graft. It is always annoying to find the scion isn't doing anything after a month or so - this is almost always due to the rings not being properly aligned. Also, make sure you don't water the fresh graft until about a month after it has been done. If you water too quick you'll find the scion rotting due to water build up between the stock and scion. To hold the scion on during the graft, use clean strips of stockings/pantyhose. They work a treat and are easy to hook over stock spines - just make sure they are tight enough that the scion will not move and not too tight that they restrict initial growth/swelling of the scion once it has taken. The stocking strips can be removed once the scion has begun swelling up - generally around a few weeks to a month and a half (depending on species). Lastly, don't expect every graft to take however after one or two trials you should find close to 100% success rate as long as you stick to the simple grafting rules. It's a great way to enjoy cacti cultivation and you'll soon have a hell of a collection when you get grafting nailed Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Stay Puft Posted January 3, 2010 my last graft was to an unrooted trich cutting and it was great success, seems easier to graft to unrooted as i just wrapped in stocking material to hold graft on tight and didnt have a pot to get in the way.... will do graft in few days again to unrooted cutting! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted January 3, 2010 Thanks for the replies everyone, they're very helpful. Is it possible to hold small seedlings (1 - 4 or 5 months old Lophs) in place with anything? Would they not be too delicate? Also, is it possible to graft small seedlings to larger stocks like Trichocerus or Myrtillocactus, or is only Pereskiopsis good for them? What are views or flat grafting versus the impale method? Are there other mothods? Finally, purely out of interest, has anyone grafted to a grafted scion before? Thanks! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutant Posted January 3, 2010 hey, great to see more people experimenting with grafting, I think it rules! some quick tips 1. Seedlings don't need any additional pressure, just ensure your press firms that the joint is good - a humidity dome is recommended 2. When to graft on a pere is sometimes dependent on the timing between different things. When you took the cuttings from pere mother plants, and how long are they in the soil [they root in no time] , how long are they now and where are the softer parts when we graft - so this usually determines the height of the stock. This is because pereskiopsis hardens its stem quickly, thus if you leave it a bit like this, the 15 cm stocks with become 30 cm in no time and you won't be able to do it as easy. 3. lopho and pere love each other, done it only with little pups but not with lopho seedlings. 4. experimenting with different styles and stocks is also nice ;) keep it up Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted January 5, 2010 Cool, thanks for the detailed reply. So when grafting to Pereskiopsis, it can only be done to the soft tissue, not the woody tissue? Do the cuttings need to have leaves? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bℓσωηG Posted January 5, 2010 you dont need leaves but it would help if it was a healthy stock ,check out this photo showing the possibilities of pereskiopsis... http://forum.auscactiforum.net/specialist-cultivation-f31/grafting-seedlings-to-pereskiopsis-t55.htm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted January 6, 2010 Awesome, thanks for that. I understand why the graft needs to be done to the soft tissue now too. Can you graft seedlings to larger stocks too? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutant Posted January 6, 2010 yep, a friend does it like this. Cool photo! You might as well consider pere, as well as hylocereus and selinicereus which I recommend as temporary stocks. As such, it is supposedly better to graft to a healhty cutting with as many leaves because its young and hasn't been 'worn out', when they drop, you're stick with the stick but it's good on its own alright! A good idea is have too many stock to graft to and maybe too some experimental pups to spare so as to play. Good stock that propagate quickly and easily and are common, easy to find are hylocereus and selinicereus to propagate , and pereskiopsis through the community of course. Can you graft to an unrooted cutting? I've never tried it, however I think it has been done by other members with success. I agree with blowng in that it is always best to use an actively growing specimen and it is best to work with a rooted stock. generally agreed but.... I have done it, and in certain occasions its more easy and more practical like stay puft said. I think it's important here that the unrooted cut is juicy so as it will able to support both scion and make roots. But sure, it's safer if you do it on a rooted and actively growing stock. Once grafted, is it better to leave indoors or out? Does it need humidity to take? I put a wet drinking glass over the top (ensure enough room so it doesn't crush the scion and there is no gap around the base of the glass/soil) and sit in a shady spot outdoors. The idea behind wetting the glass (using ordinary tap water) is to ensure a nice humid enclosure so the scion doesn't dry out and helps to form a clean graft. I think that with pups, that is not seedlings, depending of course on the surface of cut and other things, humidity might not be as important as pressure. I have found only seedlings require humidity dome, while the dome had spoilt , through rot pupgrafts. Of course I don't know how it's like in a much drier place in oz, but I do most of my graft inside and I found that a pup, from a size and up, if it's cut and joint nicely, it only needs pressure, not, humidity. But hey, that's my experience only. Working inside and keeping fresh grafts in the same room for their first 10-15 days, this might also be considered a pro. Doing all the experiments in an inside fluro warm room you maintain the same enviroment for the experiments. The only problem I got with the grow roon is that when there's many pots [wet soil], activity, I also got some fucking little flies and other shit, in short I got insects attracted.. But it's more or less controlled this time... cheers to all grafters new and older around the globe ;) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted January 6, 2010 With Pereskiopsis cuttings, do you need to follow the same basic rules as for cacti? E.g. allowing them to callous, not watering them in once planted, etc, etc? Thanks for the tip regarding humidity with larger scions mutant. I think until I'm more confident with grafting, I'd use a dome though. Does anyone in Australia know where to get Hylocereus and Selenicereus from? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutant Posted January 6, 2010 With Pereskiopsis cuttings, do you need to follow the same basic rules as for cacti? E.g. allowing them to callous, not watering them in once planted, etc, etc? more or less yeah, but you will find they don't need so many days. it's actually hard to rot them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ferret Posted January 6, 2010 more or less yeah, but you will find they don't need so many days. it's actually hard to rot them. the cuttings i took a couple years ago i planted freshly cut into potting mix and they were fine, imo callousing is unnessecary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
culebra22 Posted January 6, 2010 , imo callousing is unnessecary absolutely! it never rots ime if warm. cut ---> straight into wet soil. or cut---> into a jar of water immediately, just like a brug cutting. no callous whatsoever. you can graft to unrooted pereskiopsis stocks, i never use rooted ones at all. in fact i think it's advantageous... rationale being that peresk root fast as and the initial absence of roots it actually beneficial imo as it alleviates the common problem of water turgid pressure dislodging the scion whilst it is in the process of taking and preventing a quality union from forming. by the time a sound quality union between the stock and scion has formed then conveniently the stock will have a well developed root system and the growth explosion will begin. that or use a rooted stock and allow the soil to dry out before the graft is attempted. note i mean dry soil only ... for a pere graft to be successful high humidity is essential. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted January 6, 2010 Great, good to know callousing is unnecessary. I wouldn't have thought it would be, but being succulent, I wasn't sure. Your reasoning for grafting to unrooted cuts of Pereskiopsis seem very logical culebra. How long do they take to root usually? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weedRampage Posted January 6, 2010 Does anyone in Australia know where to get Hylocereus and Selenicereus from? Buy a dragon fruit and you have a heap of seed that germinate well. Selenicereus are the yellow dragon fruit with bumps instead of scales. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
culebra22 Posted January 7, 2010 (edited) How long do they take to root usually? usually about 2 weeks or less to root in warm weather. conveniently this period coincides perfectly with the time the scion usually requires to take and begin growth. Sometimes the scion can look good (i.e. appear to be well attached) but not actually start to grow for several weeks after this though... a quick google comes up with a link showing the phenomenon i describe: http://www.panarottocactus.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=923&sid=3fe81d01bc2cf01d91640f264e7a8065 Edited January 7, 2010 by culebra22 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bℓσωηG Posted January 7, 2010 (edited) hey i like the sponge tek on that link culebra, might have to try that one... Does anyone in Australia know where to get Hylocereus and Selenicereus from? torsten has hylocereus plants for sale at his shop , i have tried using hylo without success maybe because i water to much before grafting...... http://www.shaman-australis.com.au/Website/Shamanmainpageframeset.htm Edited January 7, 2010 by blowng Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutant Posted January 7, 2010 Yep I don't callous my pere's too, but didn't wanna make you loose you cuttings as I didn't know how many you got. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
