Obtusifolia from the bathroom window

[kindness]

Just thought I might share the view from my dunny.

and this one...

gee I'm lucky to live where I do

peace

[folias]

ah, that looks like leicocalx to me!

[kindness]

Could be... but they don't grow this far south.

I've noticed that the older obtusi's have much smaller leaves than the youngens... Also how they grow seems to depend alot on where they are growing, i.e. in a partially shaded spot or full sun... wet or a bit drier etc.

pretty sure these babies are obtusifolia

[volcanicplug]

hi, on the second photo i think i can see little flower buds forming on the top right of the branch...are the flower buds forming on rods or are they single balls?... leiocalyx flowers around april/may (which is ages away) and has flowers which form on spikes...

obtusifolia flowers from november - january also on spikes... however those leaves appear much more rounded and do not reside stiffly like a typical obtusifolia...

based on its slightly weeping habit i believe it may be an implexa...this species flowers from january to february with flowers in balls...now would seem like the right time for this species to form buds...

Edited October 21, 2009 by volcanicplug

[kindness]

hmmm. now you've got me all confused. I'm pretty sure it's an obtusifolia... although I may be wrong. If it is an implexa then I wasn't aware that it contained spyce interesting no?

[shruman]

Yeah that does look 'off' to me but the more time you spend in the bush looking the more you realize just how variable they are.

heres a couple of pics of early obtusifolia inflorescence, sample was taken on monday so this is what they should look like about now.

But so variable as you can see these phyllodes are very skinny & were indicative of the whole tree but others 20 metres away were very wide even found a couple with short very rounded phyllodes that could be mistaken for phleb. so variable & always an oddball in there. One thing that always ditinguishes obtus for me is the resinous red granules on the leaf margins, I find this the most defining factor.

"If it is an implexa then I wasn't aware that it contained spyce interesting no?"

Yes interesting care to elaborate?

Edited October 21, 2009 by shruman

[Yawning Man]

That explains all your mysterious trips to the toilet.

cheers

[kindness]

lol - on the trips to the toilet. Mainly because I've had a stomach bug and I've been in there alot... a poo with a view I'm going to upload some more pics for you guys now so you can get your acacia hats on and really sort it out. I'm pretty darn sure they are obtusi's... they are suckering - thats why there is heaps of them... they are red on the tips... the end of the leaves look all bent in the obtusi way, the bark looks right... and there is just that general shade and habit to the tree that I have noticed both here at home and all around where I live.

If they aren't obtusi's then, then, um... dunno. They have nice geometric patterns to them?

lol

heres some pics.. (upload isn't working so well right now. Will add more later)

Edited October 26, 2009 by meanies

[MORG]

Not sure what she is but obtusi she ain't.

The phyllode margins on this one are smooth - they lack the withering found on obtusi.

The phyllodes on this tree mostly hang or tend towards hanging. Obtusi phyllodes are erect.

Sure, some phyllode characters are very variable, such as width and shape, but in my opinion, these two characters haven't varied on any of the obtusi I have ever seen. Granted I've not seen obtusi from every part of its range.

[kindness]

For some reason my uploads aren't working... and it ain't the size of the files cause I made em small. Interesting then that general consensus is that these aren't obtusi's. These are the south coast strain. Hmmm.

I have read over and over the resinous margins being the dead give away but don't really get what that means. What does it mean, (bearing in mind that the only stupid question is one unasked!) I've looked at the phylodes/leaves under magnifying glass and seen little resiny looking bits but nothing majorly different on the edges of the leaves than those on the surface...

maybe my photos just suck.

lol

Edited October 26, 2009 by meanies

[MORG]

Touch is your friend. Run your fingers down the margin of the phyllode. Obtusi will be rough and textured. I don't know what "resinous" means, but basically, the margins of obtusi phyllodes have texture, they are rough, uneven. Look carefully at shruman's pics and you will see that every phyllode has this textured margin. Try searching for pics on some other obtusi threads too.

The pics of your tree show uniformly smooth margins. If I ran my finger along the phyllode edge I'm pretty sure they'd be rather smooth and continuous.

Also, the feel of an obtusi phyllode is leathery and thick. Not flexible like a lot of the other acacias. Obviously, these are comparative references that you don't truly appreciate till you've experienced them first hand, so the confusion is understandable.

If the South Coast variety/subspecies/form/morph of Acacia obtusifolia lacks rough margins and has weeping phyllodes then it is an unpublished, unrecognized difference. More likely I would think is that you have a different species.

Which makes your observations of its geometry very interesting.

More photos!

[kindness]

Yeah will post more up when the fucker starts working again!

I know what you mean about the thickness of the leaves and the uneveness of them. Also the veins running down the length of the leaves... the bark to me is usually the greyish/white colour when young moving to the more convoluted darker as they age... also the habit of the plant that I have assumed is obtusi grows in a twisty sort of way. Branches sorta heading out in different directions.

There are areas here where there are alot of dead trees, I assume these are from suckers that the plant has given up on... dunno.

You may well be right about it being a subspecies or morph of obtusi. Although they are recorded in this area cross breeding between acacia's is obviously going to happen.

Yes and if it ain't obtusi then the geometry of the plant is interesting...

Edited October 26, 2009 by meanies

[paradox]

young obtusifolia phyllodes will often have actual tiny blobs of 'resin' all along the edges. pretty sure thats what they mean by 'resinous margins'

[volcanicplug]

hi meanies, it may be a maidenii, i have one growing at home and its young phyllodes have a very similar reddish colour...

your plants have pretty broad phyllodes for a maidenii though?... and if it were a maidenii you may (flowers irregularly) expect it to have seed at this time of the year...

have you seen any flower buds forming yet?...or are there traces of seed pods around?

Edited October 26, 2009 by volcanicplug

[kindness]

Don't remember what time of year it flowered last year but has old seed pods all twisted and curled.

Don't think they are Maidenii - well not from the ones I have raised from seed and grown anyhow.

Well... I was allowed to upload one more photo. here it is.

obviously a pic of the bark of an old one. dudes... don't spend to much time fussing over this. If it's too hard I can always send a sample away to the royal botanical gardens and have em id it for me! It doesn't cost much and might be worth it just for the sake of getting to know how varied they can look.

My reckonings are that these plants are around 6 - 8 years old. Reaching for light... struggling for nutrients because of the drought conditions and doing their best to survive....

anyhow.

[paradox]

looks A LOT like implexa to me. is the inner bark a very dark reddish colour?

[kindness]

yeah a bit red

Edited October 26, 2009 by meanies

[paradox]

yeah i'm gonna go with implexa... very interesting indeed

Edited October 26, 2009 by xodarap

[kindness]

I'm gonna edit now

[MORG]

My point about it being a subspecies of A. obtusifolia was that it was vanishingly unlikely to be one

Good call xodarap.

I keyed this out with Wattle last night just using the pics and a few of meanies clues and A. implexa seems a compelling answer. Read the species description from PlantNET:

Erect or spreading tree 5–12 m high, often suckers freely; bark hard, smooth becoming corrugated or fissured at base, greyish or brownish; branchlets terete or rarely angled, glabrous, commonly lightly pruinose.

Phyllodes narrowly elliptic to very narrowly elliptic, subfalcate or falcate, 7–18 cm long, 6–25 mm wide, glabrous, 3–7 longitudinal veins prominent, numerous longitudinally anastomosing minor veins between, apex acute or subacute with a mucro; 1 inconspicuous gland at base; pulvinus 1–5 mm long.

Inflorescences 4–8 in an axillary raceme; axis usually 2–6 cm long; peduncles 6–13 mm long, finely hairy; heads globose, 30–50-flowered, 5–10 mm diam., pale yellow to ± white.

Pods curved to twisted or coiled, raised over seeds, barely to slightly or variably more deeply constricted between seeds, 6–20 cm long, 4–7 mm wide, firmly papery to leathery, ± smooth, glabrous, often slightly pruinose; seeds longitudinal; funicle whitish, folded below seed.

We need some reproductive material for a lock, but I think implexa she be.

I also read that stock have died from ingestion of green pods and that leaves were used by aborigines as a fish poison.

[kindness]

I think you guys are right.

They very closely resemble the obtusi's in a forest nearby. As I said before I will go for a walk up there again in the next while and post some pics.

This is exactly what the seed pods look like. I thought it was just that they did that as they opened... but from other pictures it appears they grow this way unlike the obtuse which are like beans and then open up in that mingled sort of way, if you know what I mean.

definitely can see the difference in the leaves... much thicker, and darker etc

[kindness]

From the forest up the road... obtusi's or what?

[volcanicplug]

definately obtusifolia!

[MORG]

That's her.

Are you retracting your observations on the geometry of A. implexa now? Were you actually talking about the geometry of A. obtusifolia?

[kindness]

Well, when they were placed together they looked pretty cool. I will have to make some more observations though. When I looked at some prunings of the bark I did find some slight patterning similar to the obtuse forest. I'm going to have to do some more research.

Something that would help with this would be a way of getting the bark to a fine powder which I have been unable to do. It's just too coarse I want to see if I can make a mandala out of the grindings.

any suggestions people?