t st tantra Posted July 29, 2009 In othew news, a study shown that when sober patients are injected with ethyl alcohol they experience high levels of sedation, false-confidence, loss of coordination - a "drunk" feeling if you will. Upon the ethyl alcohol levels returning to zero the patient is left with a massive headache, extreme dehydration, urge to kick people slamming doors. *14/20 subjects died during or after the experiment. i bet 100% of subjects died during or after the experiment,unless someone died beforehand? t s t . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smiling Cloud Posted July 29, 2009 I could be wrong but this is my understanding of thc and cbd. THC is formed in the trichromes of the plant. The thc oxidises into cbd inside the trichromes. THe trichromes get old and fall off. THC is resposible for the up soaring high whereas CBD (and CBN?) are responsible for the 'body' stone. Outdoor weed is subject to wind and rain which can loosen the old trichromes and make them fall off. THis is why outside weed is generally a more soaring high. Indoor weed is not subject to the same environmental conditions as outside weed so the old trchromes which contain CBD don't fall off and thus build up. This is why indoor weed generally appears more crystalline than outside weed and also has a more 'body' stone. (notice i said generally looks better i know eveyone has seen outside weed that looked better than hydro) I;m pretty sure that tolerant stoners get more stoned from the chemical profile of all the other cannabinoids rather than the actual thc. And this is why stoners get so stoned from indoor weed. This is why early buds aren;t as potent to the tolerant user. Not much of the THC has converted to CBD. Anyway, if the above is correct than wouldn't hydro (or "skunk' ) have more cbd? Which is apparently protecting people brains against THC. As a side note true skunk was originally 80% sativa. Also afoaf had the oppurtunity to try smoking a ruderalis dominant variety (sensi ruderalis indica) about a year ago. He hadn't smoked for many years but found it particulary enjoyable. Ruderalis generally has a far lower THC than other varieties but has several times the amount of cbd and cbn. THe effect was extremely sedating and made him sleep in after every night he smoked it. It ws not weed to be smoked during the day. Strangely enough he didn't get very paranoid like he does with normal weed and the oz that he was gifted went very quickly. He tried smoking some normal weed from the same guy but, like normal, it made him paranoid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eexpee Posted July 29, 2009 Yeah that is true about the haze. It is also possibly that sativa varieties are often to tall to grow inside, hence being bush.... Those who grow commercially also pump their plants with so many chemicals to get big bud growth, then never flush the fuckers before harvest. I think the negative effects from street bud could be due to this. Maybe there are dangerous pesticides on them etc. I don't think it has anything to do with the bud... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutant Posted July 29, 2009 self medication? This self-medication thing is somewhat both confused and confusing. I will go into this as simply as I can, but it might help if you had some of my other ideas on the subject in your mind ... People, like animals that they are, will inebriate themselves and will repeat it if they enjoyed the inebriation , given they have access to the inebriant. Sensibility in the approach towards the inebriation seems not to be a given for the most intellgent ape this planet gave birth to. Some will consume a lot, some will be very conservative, to each his own, each occasion has each own response for a variety of reasons, or even lacking actual reasons.... So, people who have problems [family, social, personal] tend to take more drugs, with less criterions why, and with a more escapist mood, lacking a true approach or reason why they do them. People who experience mental instabilities are exmples of people who experience problems, often daily. So it's prefectly natural for them to have a tendency to inebriate themselves more than the healhty ones, to make the problems less influencial, not only because they need the escape, but also because many psychoactive substances radically change point of views, even on a more permanent base [the classic psychedelics] - that is some substances if not all carry great potential for lots of mental and other problems... Many times if not most of the times this proceedure is completely subconscious - they consume the substance but hardly can give any reason why other than getting high [=forgetting the reality by escaping the regular, sober state of mind] So, in this vein, 'self-medication' might mean lots of stuff and for sure some uses are difficult to label as either 'escapist' or 'self-medication', in a way they are similar... ========= other than that, I find many posts wishy-washy. Let me say a couple of things... Hopeful thinking, 'analysis' of the chemistry of this plant which is extremely complex and widely unknown, and random defensive attitude WILL NOT render cannabis harmless. Not only THC and CDB are the active alkaloids in cannabis buds. Oral ingestion causes different and more radical effects, let alone ingection... The fact [or possibility] that skunk might carry more dangers than more regular strains doesn't not lead us to demonise skunk and claim purer species or sativa cause no problems. No - this is a believer's defensive approach. Cannabis always had the potential of catalyzing mental problems. Some people can smoke large amounts of the stuff daily and can stay healthy only because they were healthy in the first place, only because they have some approach which prevents harm, only because they have a degree of mental integrity. Cannabis , due to the relatively mild and euphoric/chillout character it's got can be used in many different ways and even randomly, accompanying almost any activity, including not doing a thing. BUT, I suggest the set+setting is of a huge impact to the experience and to the life-style of the use and any adverse effects, if we are talking about a regular pothead. Everything is linked. I also suggest that even people that experience mental instabilities might be able to use cannabis relatively safely, at least in some occasions, but I reckon they have to be more selective and careful, although this is something that I regard somewhat utopian, as people usually don't give a shit about set+setting+approaches in regards with strong psychedelics, so who is gonna pay attention to someone who is speaking about set+setting for cannabis ??!??!?! Maybe some sensible people in here , hopefully... ======= More focused on topic, regarding psychosis, I think cannabis usually acts like no-no for people with psychotic tendencies, and it's natural, like I said, given the weird thought patterns it sometimes induces, leading to paranoid thought sometimes... I reckon this might not be evident until psychosis negativity is experienced though.... I seriously doubt cannabis overuse [smoking] can lead to a psychotic episode and even more psychosis for a healthy and integral individual. This is something that has been believed in the past and was actually named 'hashish psychosis' as they thought hashish caused it. All these studies tell me nothing because I am convinced they don't do it right. They are not allowed to to it right anyway, even if they wanted. In any study of this kind, regarding drugs and mental illness, we have to know the sample, each and every individual. Not just a quick interview. It's not statistics, it's a complex relationship between the mind, the drugs, the enviroment and the geneti predisposition, and who know what else?? Basic data for such a study should IMO be a mini psychanalysis session, family history, family enviroment, past experience with any drug, scanning for traumas and indications. I bet they cannot prove that the users that the study claims got psychosis from cannabis didn't have it before hand. I have found that in whatever case a drug person has mental problems, there is usually early signs of mental instability, proving the problem preceeds the [mild/normal] use . On another branch of cases, I am convinced that heavy use/abuse can create any of the officially described mental illnesses or even more complex ones. Multidrug abusers are propably in the worst of all positions, as they have fucked up every relation with a drug they have ever established, including those who help them in times of crisis [sedatives] ============ To sum up, some of these are my own ideas and theories, but/and I feel very strongly for them and I can argue they are the [temporary] result of a long line of searching and talking and reading etc.... Cannabis is not safe nor harmless, regardless the strain. But in most occasions there are warning signs that should indicate the taker to cease use and protect his mind. It's the responsibility of the taker to know the risks of what he is putting in his brain. I actually regard those warning signs caused by cannabis to be diagnostic tools... indicative of the wider mental picture of an individual.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t st tantra Posted July 29, 2009 something not mentioned in relation to the stronger cannabis issue........ in the mid 70's when cannabis was mainly weak sativa it was quite normal to smoke an oz a week! a joint was a 3 paper number for one person!smoking this stuff at this level could/would produce a pickled feeling as tolerance developed. stronger products were also regularly available,hash,oil,thai sticks,sumatran buds,qld heads etc. when these stronger products were used pipes or one paper joints were the method of administration. regular users appear to titrate their dose..........stronger cannabis meant people smoked less [to get the same level of effect]and this seems a good thing...... t s t . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smiling Cloud Posted July 30, 2009 For the record, i did not want to appear to be defending cannabis. I just wanted to point out that their test seemed to prove that bush may be more harmful than hydro. Most lifer smokers that i know in their 50's or older have what i call pot rot. They are jaded and whilst have great ideas, never act on them. They are cynical, quick to anger and generally illogical. THeir greatest achievement usually is that they've managed to get on the pension which means they don;t have to put in a form every week, hurrah. I;m not saying all smokers end up like this but in my experience alot of them do. Also this is not your 'spliff on the weekend' type smoker. THis is your 'wake and bake, smoke all day smoke all night' smoker. As for hydro being pumped full of chemicals. Well those chemicals are the ones that are found in the ground too. And i can tell you now that most commercial bush growers certainly don't flush. How could they? I think in a perfect world properly grown hydroponic cannabis would actually be better for you than bush weed. NOt only is it flushed in its cycle if grown correctly but it is also generally stronger. THis means smoking less plant material to achieve the same effect. IN the ground you can have all sorts of nasty chemical residues, DDT, lead, long half-life pesticides which the grower has no way of finding out about. However in hydro you at least know whats in there, its says so on the bottle. THese "nasty chemicals" in hydro are things like nitrogen, pottasium, phosphourous etc ie chemcials which are essential to the plants growth. If these chemicals aren't present in the soil then the plants won't grow. So that means both bush weed and hydro weed willl have to have the same chemicals available if the plant is to grow, its just that outside the soil can also have a whole myriad of other non-essential (and potentially dangerous) chemicals. Thinlk about all those nimbin growers growing on old ddt-laced banana farms... yummo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SunChaser Posted August 12, 2009 They shoot 22 people up with synthetic THC and a few of them have a panic attack, I don’t understand what thats meant to prove about the plant cannabis? Anyway here is an abstract from another British study which I think was far more conclusive. Assessing the impact of cannabis use on trends in diagnosed schizophrenia in the United Kingdom from 1996 to 2005.A recent systematic review concluded that cannabis use increases risk of psychotic outcomes independently of confounding and transient intoxication effects. Furthermore, a model of the association between cannabis use and schizophrenia indicated that the incidence and prevalence of schizophrenia would increase from 1990 onwards. The model is based on three factors: a) increased relative risk of psychotic outcomes for frequent cannabis users compared to those who have never used cannabis between 1.8 and 3.1, b ) a substantial rise in UK cannabis use from the mid-1970s and c) elevated risk of 20 years from first use of cannabis. This paper investigates whether this has occurred in the UK by examining trends in the annual prevalence and incidence of schizophrenia and psychoses, as measured by diagnosed cases from 1996 to 2005. Retrospective analysis of the General Practice Research Database (GPRD) was conducted for 183 practices in England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. The study cohort comprised almost 600,000 patients each year, representing approximately 2.3% of the UK population aged 16 to 44. Between 1996 and 2005 the incidence and prevalence of schizophrenia and psychoses were either stable or declining. Explanations other than a genuine stability or decline were considered, but appeared less plausible. In conclusion, this study did not find any evidence of increasing schizophrenia or psychoses in the general population from 1996 to 2005. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19560900 Some people love there weed and others can’t handle it! But to say it can actually give a healthy person schizophrenia or whatever is completely absurd and is just propaganda and hysteria rather than any kind of scientific theory. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Naycha Posted August 12, 2009 Not only THC and CDB are the active alkaloids in cannabis buds. Just wanted to point out that THC, CBD, etc, are cannabinoids Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
