Women

[ThunderIdeal]

How did you come up with the conclusion that women are more attune with feelings and better at using words and facial expressions?

i read about studies which showed, at least, that young girls develop those skills much quicker than young boys. boys make less eye contact and so forth.

for now i'm dropping out of this thread.

[FancyPants]

In many contexts, the two main classes of sex steroids are androgens and estrogens, of which the most important human derivatives are testosterone and estradiol, respectively. Other contexts will include progestagen as a third class of sex steroids, distinct from androgens and estrogens. Progesterone is the most important and only naturally-occurring human progestagen. In general, androgens are considered "male sex hormones", since they have masculinizing effects, while estrogens and progestagens are considered "female sex hormones"[1] although all types are present in each gender, albeit at different levels

-From Wikipedia (yes I know not always the most reliable source)

Doesn't the level of particular hormones make somewhat of a difference between person to person, not even necessarily gender to gender? A man with low testosterone may seem far more womanly in characteristic than a bodybuilding chick on the juice with labiscrote.

[Jethro Tull]

I must admit I did not read all the responses in full, but I can see a focus on biological differences. The intent was to discuss the "mind" differences, the psychological roles that men and women have been conditioned to follow throughout our evolutionary progress as mankind.

Maybe you will enjoy something I wrote this weekend on the subject. It is similar to what is said in the original post and in the rest of that section in The Present.

http://authenticfuture.blogspot.com/2009/07/true-love.html

[botanika]

'how do you understand women so well?'

"I think of a man and take away reason and accountability"

Jack Nicholson - as good as it gets

[mutant]

I must admit I did not read all the responses in full, but I can see a focus on biological differences. The intent was to discuss the "mind" differences, the psychological roles that men and women have been conditioned to follow throughout our evolutionary progress as mankind.

the mind is affected by how the body works, by a good or problematic functionality and is not independent of it - actually its far more effected by whether your stomach or your back hurts - there's a famous ancient greek saying that means "healthy mind in a healthy body" This needn't be argued.

Bio-evolution sculptured the animal, the body, the basic needs and habits. The mind comes later, and it was propably co-formed through the use of psychoactives, and/or helped other advanced activities like communication/ cooperation/ tool using/ thumb using/ socialising/ hierarchy a.o. proceedures which might be combined the answer to homo sapien's evolution boost...

maybe mooksha was right on this one, maybe at some point biological evolution becomes social/mind evolution, through focus and within a close group ... ?

Plus you cannot separate mind from the body, they can simply not be divided - instead we should adopt a new paradigm that doesn't dismiss the one or the other part of us [mind or body] but tries to unite the concept of being...

'how do you understand women so well?'

"I think of a man and take away reason and accountability"

Jack Nicholson - as good as it gets

muhehehehehehe, I watched this recently again, fine & funny quote

[drugo]

Plus you cannot separate mind from the body, they can simply not be divided - instead we should adopt a new paradigm that doesn't dismiss the one or the other part of us [mind or body] but tries to unite the concept of being...

For sure Mutant,

The phenomenologists have been dissolving the mind-body binary for quite some time. I'd say that Merleau-Ponty is be one of the most outstanding, esp his thoughts from 'The Invisible and the Visible', and the notion of 'flesh'. I can post a great overview of Mearleau-Ponty's legacy, one which offers deep insight into bridging the gap between mind and body - a dualistic way of thinking which has been extremely popular since at least the 16th century when rationalists such as Descartes rocked Western thinking.

Deleuze in 'Anti Oedipus' introduces powerful ideas suggesting that Western thinking is stuck in a kinda binary orientation. He recons we need to, in a sense, de-Oedipus ourselves from the though patterns of the past, through a complicated process which he calls 'deconstructionism'.

Edited July 15, 2009 by mooksha

[mutant]

interestint, yeah I too believe we are too binary in thought. deconstructionism also sounds nice and interesting... even as a standalone concept

[Jethro Tull]

I hate to come off as blunt, but if you continue to read on from the very small excerpt in the original post, you will see that nearly every point in this thread is addressed, including the "generalities" comments.

one love

[Arieon]

-----

Woman: Women are mankind. Woman means womb-man or mind with a womb.

This really is a man’s world, or the mind’s world. Men and women definitely live in the world of the mind. Both the male and female of the human species are mankind/mindkind, but in some important ways, females are superior to males.

In the future, more women will be political leaders then men, because they are better at resolving conflicts without violence. Evolution has programmed males for violence and aggression. Most males like violence, most females do not.

Evolution has programmed females to have more people skills, such as patience, compromising, talking things out, or screaming it out, as the case may be. The point is, they do not resort to violence as much as men do to solve problems.

Men are always looking for any legal excuse (war) to get into a life and death fight. We do not think we do, but history says we do. It is in our genes, and is the way we have been dealing with problems for as long as we have been on earth.

How many women love guns? Just about none of them do. How many men love guns? Just about all of us do. It is not something we only learn, it is in our genes.

-----

Page 21 from the free book, The Present at The Truth Contest

I almost stopped reading this book because it seemed too assertive, but as soon as I got to the section about men and women, I was hooked. This section makes so much sense to me, and I agree with most of the points. It says a lot of things that are obvious, but we hardly ever think about them. Check out this section by going to the free book, and please share your thoughts!

Namaste

I do disagree with you're overall view of men and women and how we came to be, for some reason i believe you have taken society, religion, governments and many other things out of the factor of the truth, and the truth of everything to do with emotions is a choice. While at that it might be a choice to have emotion towards everything as man, you forget that media feeds society garbage and has been doing it for years, MEN STRONG WOMEN NOT STRONG >> VIOLENCE HERE VIOLENCE THERE. did you know this many people died last summer, did you know we have had this many deaths from car accidents in the last year, One of the easiest ways to put it is, as a child you do what you see, and well unless you have some kind of "self" as a child, you tend to bring a bit of the media life into your own life. For Instance (using this as a example) THE SIMPSONS >> a overweight drunk father that doesnt really care what happens to his children he works at a nuclear plant and thats ok, the ever so hectic mother always worrying, the smart little brainy girl that doesn't get enough attention / people listenning to her, the neglected youngling, and the ever so naughty and rather mischeavious character bart that always gets away with everything he wants to do and has little care for other people / things and their belongings. I am using this as an example because it would be the easiest for alot to relate to, now when you put into the fact that children do what they say for instance walking, talking, picking stuff up, moving around, grasping whatever information they can from whatever source, and you put millions upon millions of people infront of such a controversial (in my opinion absolute) garbage of a show. It will form a part of them, because people are sponges believe it or not we are still a sponge and keep absorbing stuff until we die.

Take money, Power and Media and violence out of any equation, and what do you have. You will have a rather pleasant environment. Unfortunately the only culprits are those that are able to brainwash some of us into a controllable substance. Take brainwashing away, and you have free choice. Free choice means the ability to choose emotion whether male or female. It's a choice to feel, but alot of mankind forget what it's like because we forget we are being programmed half of the time.

My 2 cents.

Arieon

[drugo]

I do disagree with you're overall view of men and women and how we came to be, for some reason i believe you have taken society, religion, governments and many other things out of the factor of the truth, and the truth of everything to do with emotions is a choice. While at that it might be a choice to have emotion towards everything as man, you forget that media feeds society garbage and has been doing it for years, MEN STRONG WOMEN NOT STRONG >> VIOLENCE HERE VIOLENCE THERE. did you know this many people died last summer, did you know we have had this many deaths from car accidents in the last year, One of the easiest ways to put it is, as a child you do what you see, and well unless you have some kind of "self" as a child, you tend to bring a bit of the media life into your own life. For Instance (using this as a example) THE SIMPSONS >> a overweight drunk father that doesnt really care what happens to his children he works at a nuclear plant and thats ok, the ever so hectic mother always worrying, the smart little brainy girl that doesn't get enough attention / people listenning to her, the neglected youngling, and the ever so naughty and rather mischeavious character bart that always gets away with everything he wants to do and has little care for other people / things and their belongings. I am using this as an example because it would be the easiest for alot to relate to, now when you put into the fact that children do what they say for instance walking, talking, picking stuff up, moving around, grasping whatever information they can from whatever source, and you put millions upon millions of people infront of such a controversial (in my opinion absolute) garbage of a show. It will form a part of them, because people are sponges believe it or not we are still a sponge and keep absorbing stuff until we die.

Take money, Power and Media and violence out of any equation, and what do you have. You will have a rather pleasant environment. Unfortunately the only culprits are those that are able to brainwash some of us into a controllable substance. Take brainwashing away, and you have free choice. Free choice means the ability to choose emotion whether male or female. It's a choice to feel, but alot of mankind forget what it's like because we forget we are being programmed half of the time.

My 2 cents.

Arieon

Nicely put Arieon. Are you willing to offer a few more cents?

I fully agree that society and individuals are very malleable and from this are shaped by all sorts of cultural conventions, the most notable Western ones we can probably call 'brainwashing' due to how the ideals and values result in myriad inequalities for men/women, white/black, able/disable... It's funny, i replied to the other thread talking about gender relations before i got to this one, seems like a similar convo playing out in both topics

One thought came to mind when you mentioned power and its brainwashing qualities. Foucault describes the repressive powers of society and culture in great detail, the concept 'panopticon' from Disciplinary Punishment is a great example. Foucault says that we are inscripted by society. This is why sociologists and anthropologists love his theories so much as he places such a heavy emphasis on how culture shapes the individual, esp. compare to the phenomenologists or psychology at large. Foucault points out that despite its obvious negative qualities power does not only repress, power can create, or produce, as he puts it. I'm sure you've considered this in one form or another i just thought it might be a good point to add to your 2 cents.

I recently wrote a short paper which i recon you'd be interested in. In brief, the paper is a critique on a recent publication from the Anthropologist Dobkin De Rios, and her claim that ayahuasca is traditionally used as a tool for 'brainwashing'. The argument touches on values and the nature of education.

Coerced or Caressed - Discussions surrounding the 'nature' of education.

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/inde...showtopic=21234

Cheers,

[Chiral]

Arieon you do realise that the Simpsons is probably the most tongue in cheek animated show of the modern TV era, it constantly pokes fun at itself and the many wrong doings of such things as.. the police, clean safe power, capitalists, inadequate school funding, the plight of immigrant store clerks, and the bible bashing neighbor but too name just a few...yeah sure kids exposed to to much of it may adopt some minor behavioural traits of one of the characters they relate to or find funny, but it's not permanent physiological scarring, I don't know of any adults who have watched the show since it's inception with any notice able social side effects. Geez the writers on the show are old school acid heads, you must have seen the many, many episodes with drug connotations in them, particularly Homer and his chili trip, and Lisa's psychedelic Duff gardens experience. At the end of the day it's about moderation with children, making sure they have access to an equal amount of fresh air and running around and inside TV time etc. I doubt there is any brainwashing going on from over exposure to the Simpsons but I would certainly accept that over exposure to commercial TV in general could lead to maladaptive behavior or at least some dumbing down might occur, time spent watching home and away or the footy takes you away from nature, books or any other educational stimuli.

H.

[mutant]

Nice thoughts. So what you're saying is that indeed women are different as opposed to man, but it's because of brainwashing and thought control NOT biological instructions?? I agree, but I still see and feel that soft spot in womans heart, the biological clock that makes here wanna have babies, and the need for her to have a male to take care of them in the structure called nuclear family that few animals develop. I am more than convinced that we got some small elements in which we are different, and that's not socially induced, but totally biological, having to do with the sex [M/F, not fucking ]

you need more arguements? take a look at the animal world, they don't have choice and free will, just instincts they succumb to. They are indeed different ,male and female, and I am not talking about spiders, where the differences are extreme, but mammals.

And oh, if you think simpsons is rubbish, then you are propably too much on the idealistic politically correct side of things. I love southpark and family guy, even if I sometimes dislike racist/derogatory comments passed off as humour [an example being, say, SP "Cripple fight" , which might sometimes provoke mixed feelings in the leftwing background of me. Especially family guy. But this doesn't prevent me from enjoying the shows thoroughly, as brilliant, provokative controversial humourous works of art. Simpsons, might have influenced a lot these shows but is a lot different than that. You seem to be missing something... but I am already offtopic talking about animations

[Arieon]

Nicely put Arieon. Are you willing to offer a few more cents?

I fully agree that society and individuals are very malleable and from this are shaped by all sorts of cultural conventions, the most notable Western ones we can probably call 'brainwashing' due to how the ideals and values result in myriad inequalities for men/women, white/black, able/disable... It's funny, i replied to the other thread talking about gender relations before i got to this one, seems like a similar convo playing out in both topics

One thought came to mind when you mentioned power and its brainwashing qualities. Foucault describes the repressive powers of society and culture in great detail, the concept 'panopticon' from Disciplinary Punishment is a great example. Foucault says that we are inscripted by society. This is why sociologists and anthropologists love his theories so much as he places such a heavy emphasis on how culture shapes the individual, esp. compare to the phenomenologists or psychology at large. Foucault points out that despite its obvious negative qualities power does not only repress, power can create, or produce, as he puts it. I'm sure you've considered this in one form or another i just thought it might be a good point to add to your 2 cents.

I recently wrote a short paper which i recon you'd be interested in. In brief, the paper is a critique on a recent publication from the Anthropologist Dobkin De Rios, and her claim that ayahuasca is traditionally used as a tool for 'brainwashing'. The argument touches on values and the nature of education.

Coerced or Caressed - Discussions surrounding the 'nature' of education.

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/inde...showtopic=21234

Cheers,

Thank you Mooshka i will be reading over it within the next 10 minutes whilst finishing up dinner ! I believe we have found a "level" in each other that we work off and indeed i am more than happy to talk about more open subjects with you anytime. Even outside of the forum. Oh now i really am curious to converse with you.

Arieon you do realise that the Simpsons is probably the most tongue in cheek animated show of the modern TV era, it constantly pokes fun at itself and the many wrong doings of such things as.. the police, clean safe power, capitalists, inadequate school funding, the plight of immigrant store clerks, and the bible bashing neighbor but too name just a few...yeah sure kids exposed to to much of it may adopt some minor behavioural traits of one of the characters they relate to or find funny, but it's not permanent physiological scarring, I don't know of any adults who have watched the show since it's inception with any notice able social side effects. Geez the writers on the show are old school acid heads, you must have seen the many, many episodes with drug connotations in them, particularly Homer and his chili trip, and Lisa's psychedelic Duff gardens experience. At the end of the day it's about moderation with children, making sure they have access to an equal amount of fresh air and running around and inside TV time etc. I doubt there is any brainwashing going on from over exposure to the Simpsons but I would certainly accept that over exposure to commercial TV in general could lead to maladaptive behavior or at least some dumbing down might occur, time spent watching home and away or the footy takes you away from nature, books or any other educational stimuli.

H.

I think you have looked too much into the simpsons example i gave were as i was trying to relate it to everything that is publicized through media, and media can break or create / form societies into whatever they want. It was merely a reference. Studies have shown that watching violence in a massive forms i.e showing violence to a maybe million people or so would create violence in one way shape or form, yes they might not just snap then and there, but unless the mind has reached a very mature state then absorbing such things does effect you and your mental state of well being in the long run. Here is just one article of many.

http://libertus.net/censor/resources/studies.html

You took simspons too literal i used it as an example because the average family that i would visit as a child would watch such garbage or let there children watch it and some even sat down in front of it for dinner, and when they're are such young minds around, do you really think that showing dysfunctional families creates nice things ? Once again i only used SIMPSONS as a reference there are 10 - 30 distasteful shows that media shows throughout the day. For instance the news....

I think you would enjoy a movie called "network" it shows in a small form exactly what the media is capable of.

There are alot of documentaries of course. Some are fairly recent but also vastly indepth, and not for everyone.

Arieon

[ThunderIdeal]

you repeatedly call the simpsons rubbish. this is an outrage.