trance dance and all that

[ThunderIdeal]

let this be a discussion not actually limited to the phenomenon of trance dance.

firstly, this is really a mystery to me, i hope somebody can give me some insight, i will share what i think i have figured out.

i haven't read this http://undergrowth.org/bush_doofs_by_dj_kr...121829324bfecb0 it's the only article i can find but i've seen at least a couple around.

so, i think dancing is akin to when we hallucinate on reasonable tryptamine doses. in a mckenna'esque way, i think hallucinations can be or are joint ventures, shared with unknown consciousness or parts of ones consciousness. "do as we do" the elves told mckenna, like hallucinating is some act of creation or a builder of novelty or.. something

somehow i decided that trance dancing might have to do with a telepathic connection with other dancers, not an individualistic meditation but a co-creation, something bigger than one's so-called self.

maybe better to try with tryptamines but on the weekend as i danced i tried to lose the individualism, and feel or imagine that the other dancers were as much me as i was them. it was a dismal attempt, but what i noticed is that it was highly uncomfortable, in the way that a trip can be at the beginning. like i was asking myself to leave comfortable territory and embrace the unknown, the unsafe.

please tell me your thoughts.

[Chiral]

Geeze dancing on tryptamines...that's gotta be almost impossible....entering a trance like state though is common with rhythms/drums logs, sticks chanting etc... particularly with African tribes and the Haitians use of voodoo and drumming to enter altered states of conscience.

Dancing on tryptamines ....I really can't get my head around that one....although potentially one could dance on low dose mushrooms but as for entering a trance like altered state it would be more from the drugs than the dancing I would imagine.

H.

[kindness]

I have certainly become 'en-tranced' from dancing all night without the aid of any drugs. Not even caffiene. Just being at a psytrance event. The morning after I climbed a massive mountain and returned home feeling blissed out completely! Not tired as I would normally be for staying up way to long but completely comfortable in my body, relaxed etc.

Further to this I have experienced liminal states through ritual processes of initiation, (specifically rite of passage work). I agree with you in saying that pushing yourself beyond the comfortable and normal spaces of consciousness, (and it would seem physicalness) are needed to achieve a trance or liminal state.

I could go on about this forever but won't - save to say that another very noticable 'part' of being in such a state is the decreased boundaries I had - this includes stuff like openly telling people that I like them (lol) and being more helpful than I normally would also touching people way more than normal - pats on the shoulder, arms etc hugging and whatever. Oh and also that such familiarity with others can happen in a relatively short amount of time... with dancing it was a night, though the effects weren't as profound as initiation work which was over a week.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liminality

[ThunderIdeal]

are you sure they weren't blasting the dance floor with sassafras oil or something? sounds like you had some good emder

some people seem to respond a bit differently to acid, i've encountered people who were adamant they've only had acid but they were dancing really hard, which matches with my higher dose experiences (ecstatic muscle contractions) but it would all be a bit weird to me on the dance floor with no stims, tripping hard. that being said, i should try dancing on acid again now that my back is 4700000000 times better than it used to be (god bless you chiropractor).

without trying to direct the conversation, my theoretical model of trance dancing is tryptamine inspired. it's very, very heavy, more than just tranquilising the mind. i promise to experiment more with the right substances and post back in this thread.

[strangebrew]

I for one am beginning to find this area totally fascinating, only experiencing for the 1st time recently. Maybe once one has found oneself in that space it becomes hardwired and comes more naturally, as I have done it a few times since.

Kent touches upon it in his book intro...just says something like "one may find oneself forming yogic dance moves" or some such and then leaves it at that. Unfortunately there's an unwritten chapter called Co-ordination and grace.

Why for heavens sake should one find oneself overcome with an urge to perform - quite well I might add - fluid, ancient, mystical, coordinated moves expressing God's grace and benevolence? Especially when you're an uncoordinated whiteboy who's never had an urge to dance in his life?

Just from a psychological viewpoint it is an amazing phenomena.

* Edited to say this has been experienced completely isolated and alone. Never been to a doof in my life. The music has been purely generated from within sometimes as well.

Edited May 20, 2009 by strangebrew

[ThunderIdeal]

i need more info to work with folks

for the record i've never done "it" and i'm not convinced what "it" is

[Foton]

some thoughts:

music is a memetic feedback loop... thoughts, ideas, emotions, concepts, archetypes are, and can be spread. For me, one of the great things about trance music (goa trance, psytrance) is a recognition of themes and motifs encountered in the psychedelic experiance (weed to a lesser extent too). And emotion too... some goa trance evokes the image for me of a 20,000 ft tall sparkling orange buddha with fire shooting out of his eyes.

Ive not had a group experience of trance-dance... but im persuing it. As I think about it, i think it may well be the main focus of my life at the moment (trance/dance).

Dance seems to be an extremely deep. I think dance way well have been the first art form that our ancestors played with (along with singing/music). It allows a space to tap into the morphogenetic feild relating to in part movement ( to me seeming very tai-chi/flowing).

I see the trance as re-sacralising thing. It may well be a responce to our cultures lack of true spirituality (society as a whole that is). It connects us to the devine.

I also think trance music can activate (perhaps not permanently) the higher circuits (as in the 8 circuit model of human consciousness).

Bah, not just doof doof doof doof doof !!!!

Some further things:

McKenna on taking psychedelics at raves (from memory) - "you must be fucking nuts! Ive taken sub doses and danced at raves, but it was not deep work, it was to dance and have fun with my friends. bright lights and music is a strategy for coming down"

Erik David has written about goa trance. From

Sampling Paradise. The Technofreak Legacy of Golden Goa. A firsthand report on Goa, India's psychedelic trance techno scene, circa 1994.

(article can be found at http://www.techgnosis.com/)

ah cant find the passage now, but the idea i wanted to point to was the rising tones used... shoots energy out through the top of the head.

For some further articles:

http://www.isratrance.com/articles/

Edited May 20, 2009 by Foton

[strangebrew]

I have experienced my core self as a bassline before & it seems I am not alone. Interesting!

Kent's essay"deconstructing the vision"

6. The Cosmic Groove - This swirling keyboard/demonic grin thing is an archetype that appears in many of my trips. It can look alternately like a zipper, trains, train tracks, receding MC Escher stairways, rungs of DNA, a snake, teeth, vertebrae, etc. The Cosmic Groove literally rolls on through the trip, always in constant motion, providing the "tempo" for the experience. It is typically accompanied by a galactic funk riff that the sickest trance music aspires to reproduce. I like to think of the Cosmic Groove as the master "score" that underlies the forward-pace of reality, but what do I know? I am fairly certain that the sensation of "locking-in" to the Cosmic Groove accounts for many of the far-out dance moves perpetrated in the neo-tribal scene. All tribal music is geared towards tapping into various tempos of the Cosmic Groove. Jazz, the "Jam Band" phenomena, DJ Culture, and hip-hop all exploit the Cosmic Groove during live performance; by tapping into the Cosmic Groove musical yogis can jump on a beat, step out of their bodies, and "let it flow" through them. I believe this is true with athletes as well, except they refer to it as being "in the zone," which is a state of mind where thinking gives way to a deeper instinctual connection to timing and rhythm, allowing grace and flawless physical performance to pass through the body.

Edited May 20, 2009 by strangebrew

[ThunderIdeal]

foton's first url works if you remove the last slash

[Oh 'cos?]

At the last doof I went to, I was tripping on acid and besides some weed, that was all I had in my body. I was dancing hard out and have some incredible revelations that night whilst dancing with many people at once. I'm really energetic when on acid...

Psychedelic trance.. especially the progressive stuff they play in the afternoons at doofs has this really intense spiritual vibe for me.

Edited May 20, 2009 by Adrian Psy

[ThunderIdeal]

adrian your experience matches up my vision. i don't normally get energised, but on my largest dose i got it, kind of semi-controllable muscle contractions (or spasms, whatever) as i lay on my bed listening to psy, digging the motherfuck out of everything. that's when i had the seeming revelation that trance dance might/must/could be a telepathic co-creation thing involving many dimensions. can you elaborate further?

i'm eager to try mescaline dancing because it actually has a stimulant side, but i don't think it's quite right, i imagine tryptamines are perfect for this.

.. not to dismiss what others have said! please continue discussion, i'm just looking for some validation of what i had imagined.

[strangebrew]

Don't think shrooms would do it, not unless you're naturally energetic and inclined to dancing.

First time for me was on acid, listening to some music that moves me spiritually. It was uncontrolable, spastic, quite extreme really. High dose, energizing cactus will definately get you there if it suits you.

I imagine it as a personal thing only though, cause that's all I know.

Edited May 21, 2009 by strangebrew

[Foton]

Here are some more articles:

Thoughts on Doofing By John H-S "Sylk"

Goa Trance - The Phenomenon By Fred Cole and Michael Hannan

A brief overview of Australian Psy-Trance

Here is a chuck from the second link above:

The issue of tempo is an interesting one considering the possible relationship between musical tempo and human brain physiology. The frequency of alpha waves in the brain, critical in inducing trance states in humans, lies approximately between 8 and 12 cycles per second, and varies from one person to the next. . Many traditional trance-inducing musics of the world contain rhythmic elements which mirror these rates. Typically performances start at the lower level and increase over a period of hours towards the higher level. The gradual increase in frequency allows for the variation in different human alpha wave frequencies. In Goa trance there is a constant stream of 16th notes which when played at the suggested average of 144 bpm yields a flow of musical events at an average of 9.6 cps. This situation parallels that of traditional trance musics. However if the average tempo of Goa trance has increased there is a chance that partiers with alpha wave rates in the lower end of the range might not lock with any of the music being played in a party situation. .

[Oh 'cos?]

adrian your experience matches up my vision. i don't normally get energised, but on my largest dose i got it, kind of semi-controllable muscle contractions (or spasms, whatever) as i lay on my bed listening to psy, digging the motherfuck out of everything. that's when i had the seeming revelation that trance dance might/must/could be a telepathic co-creation thing involving many dimensions. can you elaborate further?

i'm eager to try mescaline dancing because it actually has a stimulant side, but i don't think it's quite right, i imagine tryptamines are perfect for this.

.. not to dismiss what others have said! please continue discussion, i'm just looking for some validation of what i had imagined.

Yeah I first got that on my first REAL acid trip. I was laying on my girlfriend's bed listening to some deep, fat minimal progressive psytrance and I had all these insane revelations about the music and it felt like every bleep, bloop, swoosh, dong, unce, growl and tiss would make different parts of my body twitch and curl. I know that sounds so simple and.. like yeah but it's oh so much more than that. I have this connection to psytrance like no other music. Arghh I can't put it in words lol

[Chiral]

Yeah Adrian summed it good when he said "that on acid the music has this really intense spiritual vibe for me." ....I've partied hard and danced for 12 hours on super clean cid in London when I was in the scene neck deep...ex would have me flopping around kinda useless and had a totally different connection with the music...ex fucks with your hearing and has some sort of filtering involved that is cool but not nearly as cool as acid...acid takes those beats and sends them through your body out to the spirit network and they get electrified and pulse back to you messages of ancient ritual tribal gatherings and enjoyments....in the film "Apocalypto" one beautiful scene shows the elders are up at dawn and telling stories for the families to teach them about keeping fear out of thear hearts and minds and stay happy...at the end of the elders talk someone starts banging a tribal drum with a bone and they all start getting up and dancing just like you would at a doof.

It's remarkable how we as humans have a strong almost irresistible urge or impulse to get up and dance move around almost uncontrollably and become one with your brothers and sisters....I find dancing a beautiful synchronous way to connect with others and release some energy....I often play psytrance and prog in my studio and my 2 year old daughter is infected with it...she comes in and dances beahind me for hours while I read .....I feel so much love when I watch her just looking at her own movements and enjoying the beats and smiling....it's one of the purest forms of enjoyment known to man...I am very biased though I only really enjoy beat driven music in a tribal sense and cannot appreciate something like classical or opera, even some rock music has me cringing....thats my celtic gypsy ancestory blood in me I spose...all those pagans dancing around fires after full moon harvest with flutes and drums and string instruments.

H.

[ThunderIdeal]

Here is a chuck from the second link above:

The issue of tempo is an interesting one considering the possible relationship between musical tempo and human brain physiology. The frequency of alpha waves in the brain, critical in inducing trance states in humans, lies approximately between 8 and 12 cycles per second, and varies from one person to the next. . Many traditional trance-inducing musics of the world contain rhythmic elements which mirror these rates. Typically performances start at the lower level and increase over a period of hours towards the higher level. The gradual increase in frequency allows for the variation in different human alpha wave frequencies. In Goa trance there is a constant stream of 16th notes which when played at the suggested average of 144 bpm yields a flow of musical events at an average of 9.6 cps. This situation parallels that of traditional trance musics. However if the average tempo of Goa trance has increased there is a chance that partiers with alpha wave rates in the lower end of the range might not lock with any of the music being played in a party situation. .

i wonder if this is the basis of tempo preference.

[woof woof woof]

dancing or any other form of repetitive movement can aid a person on going inwards and therefore looking at the world through a whole different perspective.

people have done this for hundreds of thousands of years. I think even from before we were modern humans. ( for you aussies this should be a common thing to hear - The Dreaming)

Early people were more in the dreaming back then. is my guess. I mean you had to be. You had to have eyes on the back of your head to avoid becomming some animals lunch.

Repetitive movements and continuous chanting..... I think.... makes a person see the rythmic repitition in life........... sun up, sun down, changing of the seasons.... realizing birth and death ... and that it has been going on for generations..... ( the ancestral spirits ) realizing/stimmulating the knowledge that has been built up in their genes...... through 1000's of generations.

I think that even the thoughts we have are repetitive patterns.... just slightly different because of the different times we are in.

history repeats itself!

[immanuel]

,

Edited April 19, 2010 by mardybum

[strangebrew]

i dont know how to explain it but it felt like i was connected to everything as i danced,

I can relate to that. After all, dancing is a physical form of creativity and being creative, even if only a minor way, are the moments when I feel the most "in tune" with life, the most righteous. Being creative in a very physical way, such as dancing, is bound to contribute to the sense of feeling connected.

BTW is doing "windmills" with the arms a common psy-trance dance move? When in this dance/trance mode I always feel like doing them - both arms together, sometimes forward and sometimes back, with the upper body moving down and around, side to side.

[ThunderIdeal]

i don't think so but who cares what is common

[strangebrew]

I just thought these states might give rise to some common moves, I know "the stomp" that this article refers to a universal one. trance dance article

Repetitive movements and continuous chanting..... I think.... makes a person see the rythmic repitition in life........... sun up, sun down, changing of the seasons.... realizing birth and death ... and that it has been going on for generations..... ( the ancestral spirits ) realizing/stimmulating the knowledge that has been built up in their genes...... through 1000's of generations.

I like that Woofster - listening to jajouka & gnouwa has definately given me similar thoughts.

Edited June 11, 2009 by strangebrew

[Hedonix]

nothing like the feeling of knowing you can close your eyes for hours if you want and go on your own journey knowing that several others are doing the same right around you..

[swarb]

nothing like the feeling of knowing you can close your eyes for hours if you want and go on your own journey knowing that several others are doing the same right around you..

for sure, there is nothing else like that feeling

I wonder sometimes about the way people on a dancefloor effect each other. Sometimes it feels like such an intense personal journey but at the same time, the awareness of everyone close by going through the same thing is such an important part too. I also wonder how the dj feels (it must be amazing), how they know what to do and where their guidance ends and each individual's contribution starts...

It seems like there is so much going on a doof - it feels like a borderline between history and technology, magic and mystery.

[ThunderIdeal]

this is a bit off topic, but i'm definitely not the only one who wishes there were some doofs based on a different template, or at least attracting a different breed of punter. maybe this is a pointless sentiment as life is what you make of it and so is a doof.

trying to keep the thread alive really. glad to see another post that in some way aligns with my opening post.

[Foton]

Foton - Weight of the Pyramids