Chiral Posted January 25, 2009 (edited) I have been pondering this for some time with a view latter on to breeding for speed of growth. What are peoples opinions on what is the fastest growing columnar cactus in their experience and what where the conditions it was grown in etc..location etc would be helpful. Would be nice to give measurements as well say something like.. # 3 yr old Trichocereus Bridgesii... # growing season from Sept thru March..total growth 18" # grown in ground full sun etc..something like that...I wanna collect data and look for ideas on growth rates for a long term project I have in mind. thankyupe.... H. Edited January 25, 2009 by Hunab Ku Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Inyan Posted January 25, 2009 (edited) May I suggest getting some books on the subject? Speed of growth is nice, but breeding for more cold hardiness or colors is also a nice idea. How many can survive 15 degree's or lower temperatures. Maximum height and width attained is also nice to know. If you have a super fast growing cacti that only grows to 3 feet... is this okay with your program. Try to get as many details as you can and then sort through the characteristics that you like so you don't short change yourself and your breeding program. Just my thoughts on the matter. If your breeding for pencil then cacti that grows 6 ft in 3 months then you may also be creating a potential weed if it escapes your breeding program. I can just imagine having to mow my yard with all those pesky hybrids sprouting all over it. Also of note, you want to research the hybrids already out there so you don't have to waste years making crosses simply to attain an intermediate cacti for further hybridizing. Use other hybridizers and there attempts to your advantage. The below web sites have some hybrid Trichocereus as well under Trichocereus as well as Trichocereus hybrides. https://www.uhlig-kakteen.de/header.php offers seed and cacti Clicking on pictures may give you information in German which you can then go to babelfish and translate. example: xxL Trichocereus With coolly winter peace 6-12°C the plants from November should stand for drying completely to March. In addition, they stand locations at room temperature. In this case all 3 to 4 weeks a little is poured. The ever bright location is, so much the better. Now, what these descriptors are of XXL or XL are... I have no idea. http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_txt http://www.huntington.org/BotanicalDiv/Sch...talogindex.html nice hybrids http://www.koehres-kaktus.de/Downloads/kakteen.pdf 3224 Flying Saucer X E. obrepanda AN 0861 0,80 2,40 = 100 seed 3207 Flying Saucer X Grs.schoenste AN 0805 0,80 2,40 1772 Flying Saucer X High Noon AN 0805 0,90 1773 Flying Saucer X Magnolis AN 0809 0,80 2,40 1775 Flying Saucer X Papagei AN 0843 0,80 2,40 1777 Flying Saucer X Yellow Cal. AN 0801 0,80 2,40 3229 thelegonus X kermesina 1,10 4,30=100 seed 12,00=1,000 seed 1778 macrogonus J 0,60 1,80 7,00=1,000 seed, 31,00=10,000 seed 1795 terscheckii J 0,60 1,80 7,00=1,000 seed http://www.basementshaman.com/trichyb.html http://www.herbalfire.com/trichocereus-hua...ctus-p-249.html Trichocereus 'Huasca' hybrid: We are now able to offer stunning 18'' rooted 'huasca' hybrids that are branching out like crazy with new pups. Our highly aesthetic hybrids are proud to have come from a strong genetic heritage. The translucent yellow spines only compliment the gorgeous red flowers that bloom in more abundance than any other Trichocereus species. http://www.troutsnotes.com/sc/Known_hybrids.html More pictures showing some nice variation in seedlings... note: Seedlings between crosses can be highly variable and even more so the further you get away from the F1 cross so two very different F1 seedlings from a given cross if out crossed to a different F1 cross involving different genetics may give you very different results as the genetics of each were already distinct from each other the moment you selected your two F1 hybrids... or at least hopefully, you grew enough seedlings to warrant a good selection such as this. http://www.au.gardenweb.com/forums/load/ca...0509061192.html Forums such as the above are also good to join as you can read and discover that you can create night and day blooming varieties if such is your goal. http://www.webshots.com/search?query=Trichocereus+Hybrid For some more nice Trichocereus hybrids. Edited January 25, 2009 by Inyan 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chiral Posted January 25, 2009 Inyan...I'm just wanting peoples experiences particularly local to Australia...I wanna hear what hybrids are doing what from local growers ..local growers aren't going to have their info published in books if you know what I mean. I'm relatively new to cactus so I want to know about the local hybrid strains and whats going on with them..obviously I haven't grown any of them and want to collect data so I can learn more about them. I suppose what I want say is I'd like to hear about all the different characteristics of all our columnars and look for characteristics that are favourable to me and see what can be done in the future...for instance I wonder what crossing psych0 back with pure Peruvian would attain..Im looking for speed of growth and other qualities like basal pupping..rib structure all sorts of small key characteristics that help me learn. what I would actually love if someone could post up the local hybrid names and list their parents so I can have an idea of whats going on....unless that's already here somewhere on SAB is it....? H. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Inyan Posted January 25, 2009 (edited) Understood, local variations in performance are sure to exist. I was thinking a bit more globally minded, but this may still be of some help. http://cssaustralia.org.au/component/optio...id,19/catid,10/ You are quite right to see what grows best locally as environmental genetics are sure to be a factor with your hybrids. You may also consider growing several different lines out of different crosses. With one line you can work towards speed of growth only. Line B could be speed of growth + large diameter. Line C could be speed of growth + height. In this manner, if you end up with a Line A that grows extremely fast in comparison to your other lines but only grows to 4 ft in height you can work these into your other lines. Edited January 25, 2009 by Inyan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
~shameless~ Posted January 25, 2009 Hunab , you read my mind some how!!!!!! i'v wanted to start this topic any way new comer to cactus i am , but not new to ethnobotany i'm going with bridgessiii as the fastest, toughest, easiest care cacti, wait and i'll get picies of my patch to show you my observations Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutant Posted January 25, 2009 This is a perfect thread, I very much am eager to listen to any comments Will be able to report next year, so if this is really long term, keep it up A newbie actually, but I found bridgesii and pachanoi [both PC and KK339] to be amazing growers! Myrtillocactus is also nice. I will be trying various columnars for graft stocks and in ground this next year... [which is mar/apr ~ nov, for us] And, yep, cold hardiness is not an option or concern for me too... I am even thinking about trying some spherical or slower growing species in the ground! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Inyan Posted January 25, 2009 This is a perfect thread, I very much am eager to listen to any comments Will be able to report next year, so if this is really long term, keep it up A newbie actually, but I found bridgesii and pachanoi [both PC and KK339] to be amazing growers! Myrtillocactus is also nice. I will be trying various columnars for graft stocks and in ground this next year... [which is mar/apr ~ nov, for us] And, yep, cold hardiness is not an option or concern for me too... I am even thinking about trying some spherical or slower growing species in the ground! Mutant, You had best be careful. You wouldn't want those escaping into the wild. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teotzlcoatl Posted January 25, 2009 I found Trichocereus "True Blue" peruvianus to be the fast growing as well as the thickest (which is also VERY important!) I think you should breed for speed of growth, thickness of the cactus, thickness of the green layer of flesh, potency and cold hardiness. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chiral Posted January 25, 2009 well in the 6 months I've been growing these cactus I have spent a great deal of time watching their growth behavior...I have noticed that Standard Bridgesii is extremely fast growing compared to the others.. I have 1 decent Macro and it comes a close second. need more data.... H. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bit Posted January 25, 2009 I'm not sure it's possible to quantiify growth rates in my collection. I have such a wide range of pot types and sizes. The amount of sun they all get differs. The most consistent thing I have is soil type, but even then some is different, and I don't know if the nursery I get soil from has changed the makeup of the soil in the last few years. I will say this though: Plastic pots are the way to go, ceramic evap water too fast. Also, the bigger the pot the more moisture and bigger root run the cactus can develop, the faster the cactus grows. As an example, I have two bridge grown from the same seed batch, one of which is over 5 foot, the other not pushing 4 yet. Both grown in similar conditions, with the only difference being the pot size they were put in early on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sharxx101 Posted January 26, 2009 Bridgesii, spach and my peruvianus grow fast. I have a peruvianoid that is sprouting 6 healthy pups, I gave it a little bit of lime when the growing season started. It depends on how the person cares for the cactus. if the cactus gets treated properly it will grow to its full potential and cacti that are in the ground grow at amazing rates!!! Very interesting thread! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nitrogen Posted January 26, 2009 The bridgesii seem to grow faster than my pachanoi... Some of the bridgesii are very fast - in my climate they grow pretty much year round.. Per the Aussie celebrity bridgesii, The Eileen and Psycho0 clone grow fast, as advertised.. My Psycho0 clone has grown over 2' these past several months.. In fact, the Psycho0 is the fastest growing plant in my collection (though not by much), and also grows damn thick.. The Psycho0 is of questionable potency though... The "MumnDad" cutting I got has grown very slowly, barely at all - may just be an issue of it getting established, though it has been rooted for months.. Per the USA celebrity bridgesii, the "Baker" and "Lumberjackus" grow quite quickly, as does the SS02 - all of these can grow over 2' per year.. A friend of mine tells me that in his collection, which has a variety of bridgesii clones, the Eileen and Lumberjackus grow the fastest... I have an un-named bridgesii that grows about as fast as the Psycho0... The Lumberjackus is a bitchin looking and very potent cactus, hopefully we can get it over to Oz at some point.. I have had a couple Peruvianus clones grow extremely quickly as well, faster maybe than the bridgesii.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kadakuda Posted January 26, 2009 Some cereus species will also grow faster, much faster than trichs, and are also generally more cold and wet hardy. example: no trich can grow in ground outside here, it will rot from the wet. Cereus sp. (peruv. adn jamacaru are 2 good ones) do awesome in ground. some other great water tolerant (meaning can live in ground in this tropical wet island without rotting everytime) are: Myrtillocactus geometrizans Neobuxbaumia polylopha Opuntia sp (some grow tall into trees) Stenocereus griseus Stenocereus pruinosus all these do well outside here, probably many others as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutant Posted January 27, 2009 Mutant,You had best be careful. You wouldn't want those escaping into the wild. What, the cacti???? Well I would actually love that! But I dont think they will... PS: I have also noted that among several tricho species, T.bridgesii seem the fastest from seed , that is they are the biggest now some 6 months after sprout.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chiral Posted January 27, 2009 Well the consensus seems to be that Bridgesii is the fastest..is that why it's the one used for a lot of our hybridising..? With so much pach around..ie chunks and chunks and chunks on e-bay for sale everyday..I thought it was the fastest but apparently not. The thing about Bridgesii is that its alk profile tends to be on the dark side where as Pach is gentle..I'm now wondering if the Bridgesii hybrids profile has changed somewhat through breeding. To my eye Bridgesii isn't that cool to look at..I find the Macro's and true peruvians to be glorious looking cactus..reasonably fast growth rates and seem to be fatter with nice spine organisation. I also noticed some the Bridge hybrids have really weak spination and seem spaced apart more than others. Obviously I'm still a mug at this but these are just my general observations andI probably haven't seen enough of these hybrids in the flesh to make any more. H. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutant Posted January 28, 2009 Well, bridgesii is also thinner and more slender than other trichos... I think it looks great... And so does a 20year old terscheckii! again that bridgesii dark side thing... I wonder how many from those who have bioessayed both bridges and pach strains are of this opinion.... I also wonder if the dark side thing has got to do with more stimulation for bridges's part... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
