secrets of lilly and lotus

[t st tantra]

i tend to have a smoke of this every night,for a few weeks now,forced myself to skip a night with no ill effects.

the pain releif i felt has not been repeated though the reduction in effects of low dopamine levels is reliable.

when i drank water lilly i simmered it for about 10 minutes and found it fairly active.

was surprised to see 'mescalito people' the other night after years of disappointments with cactii.

has anyone experienced the alternate reality that i originally read about?

t s t .

[theobromos]

Again I must say vapourise, don't smoke.

Alcohol definitely changes the effects for the better of the waterlily and lotus species I have tried. From sedative to jolly inebriation.

The alkaloids of these species would take a long time to describe, even if I had my data cards.

And don't forget the Nuphar, though I would avoid the American forms.

Om Mani Padme Hum

[nabraxas]

om mani padme hum-- behold the jewel in the lotus.

great tibetan saints are often pictured & described as "lotus born"

The Lotus Born

i was wondering if anyone would bring that up.

[skunkjar]

theobromos:

Again I must say vapourise, don't smoke.

Alcohol definitely changes the effects for the better of the waterlily and lotus species I have tried. From sedative to jolly inebriation.

The alkaloids of these species would take a long time to describe, even if I had my data cards.

And don't forget the Nuphar, though I would avoid the American forms.

Om Mani Padme Hum

I was wondering why to avoid the American varities of lilly. Do they contain toxins, or are they just less active?

What if one were to collect a couple of kilos of yellow american pond lilly, and do an extraction with 90+% vodka, then evaporate the vodka?

Any info helps!

Skunkjar

[t st tantra]

my thanxs to rev for a batch of sab blue lotus for research purposes.

i was talking to torsten and was suprised he did not know of the dopamine effects i had experienced [sid found hbwr+pink water lilly had him walking around with a big grin,others also experienced this].anyhow when i returned from eb3 i tried some of the sab product,the dreamy softness was probably more pronounced,though of a different quality,and there was no dopamine effect.i had turned the flowers by hand to dry them and seemed to have a film of 'talc fine resin?' on my hands and got some effect from it.

other people have agreed with me about the correlation between the fragrance and the effects of water lillies.

t s t .

[waterdragon]

if fragrance is anything to go by then the pink ones should be fantastic. have pink and white growing on the dam and was going to purchase a yellow recently just before a couple showed up late, might have to purchase a red and a blue just for display purposes.

[friendly]

Hello All: This is friendly from Om-Chi Herbs.

I am currently working on a book on Nymphaea caerulea (Blue Lily), Nymphaea alba, Nymphaea ampla, other related species and Nelumbo nucifera(Sacred Lotus) as a follow up to the articles in ER and am compiling experience reports for possible inclusion. I would appreciate anything anyone would be willing to contribute on the subject, whether it is favorable or not.

Your anonymity is guaranteed unless you should decide you want to be quoted, in which case I will give full credit for anything used.

You can either respond in this forum or by email.

The first visionary experiences I had were with N. alba flowers, after smoking them the day after I had smoked Blue Lily. I fell into a dream state and was shown my first visions of the Egyptian paradise, which I did not recognize as such until later.

Recently the plant has put me in both worlds at once, with one foot in each and straddling the line between this life and the afterlife; the spiritual position of the priest or shaman.

Most of the visions recently have been regarding the nature of the bloody sacrifice, the intentional transiting of the life force from one realm to the other.

I have never been inclined to kill anything except for food, but these visions have given me an understanding of the ritual and the reasons for it that I doubt I would have acquired otherwise. This does not mean that I have changed my stance on killing, though.

Most recently my deceased mother appeared to me during a blue lily experience (the first and only time since her death several years ago) in a seeming attempt to tell me of a danger involving my vehicle. When I put it up on the lift, the left front tire had a large bubble in it on the tread that could have blown at any time.

I'm still thinking that one through.

Today I've been sampling a Nymphaea alba seed tincture made some time ago upon hearing that the seeds were the most potent part of the plant, something I have been wanting to test for accuracy.

While one experiment is not conclusive, the strength does seems to be quite considerable for the amount consumed.

I took three eyedroppers in a half glass of water and within fifteen minutes could feel the signature "relax- it's not that important, whatever it is" vibe beginning to take hold.

All day long so far--about four hours--I have been extremely lilified (mentally very energetic, but also physically lethargic at times) with a constant flow of creative ideas and too much inertia to follow through; the classic "it can wait till later" mode that I often experience with any Lily product.

I have heard from sources that the root is also active, but have yet to gather significant information or bioassay any myself.

There is considerable euphoria which can translate into action with this tincture, not like the other lily experiments I have tried. The inertia outweighed the ability of the euphoria to motivate in those cases.

I am currently drying out an acetone extract of N. nucifera which seems to have both a crystalline and an oil component, but it will probably take a week for it to be ready to try.

I find that fruit juice works nearly equally well as a menstruum as alcohol for making a beverage. Soak the flowers at least overnight to 24 hours. If kept in a warm place and for a longer period of time, fermentation might occur and you could end up with a lily-fortified wine of a different nature than made by just soaking the flowers.

I know of no one who has yet tried this.

Cranblueberry juice masks the taste of the flowers quite well, if you are using juice to make an extract.

Be careful though, as the juice extract comes on much more smoothly than does smoking and until you are challenged to do something, you might not recognize that it is beyond your abilities at the time.

In one of Emboden's papers, he mentions that during WW I, when no o. was available in South Africa due to England not letting the Germans have any from India, the African surgeons found that N. alba extract made a quite successful substitute for anaesthesia and surgery.

[friendly]

47 grams of N. alba seeds with some smnall bits of pod still attached were crushed in a blender and combined with 200ml of 92% etoh in an inert closed vessel and shaken daily for two weeks, then once weekly for ten weeks. Decanted product was 135 ml.

Three eyedroppers of this tincture (measured at 2ml total) were put into half a cup of distilled water and orally ingested.

Effects began within 30 minutes and continued unabated for 8 hours minimum.

Effects included giddiness, euphoria, mania (inability to stop talking), slight dizziness and enhanced sense of awe and wonder. A slight difficulty in focusing vision was noticed, but this was not enough to interfere with enjoyment.

Some slight reduction in sexual performance was noted. Again, nothing severe enough to interfere with enjoyment.

While this is not a psychedelic, the awareness of universality was noticably enhanced, and a sense of awe and wonder at the new world being made manifest was predominant.

Today, I am more able to guage the effects of yesterday's experiment; the tincture is well worth making and the experience is first rate.

I had one of the most remarkable (for it's newness) and enjoyable experiences I can remember in a long time. The effects are unlike any other lily productI have tried, with far less body load and a higher level of euphoria.

I would have to say that the seeds are the strongest part of the plant I have so far tested.

I would recommend it to anyone in reasonable health. I'm curious to see if the effects are further strengthed by increasing the dose; I see no reason why they shouldn't be, and that would be something quite wonderful, IMHO.

Next experiment is to make a tincture of N. caerulea seeds.

Several people to whom I have spoken about cultivation of this plant tell me that seeds rarely germinate; the plant reproduces from seedlings that form on the edge of the lily pad and float off when they are of a large enough size to survive on their own.

I have not witnessed this, living in a colder climate where the tropical water lilies do not flourish, but would love to hear from any who have first hand experience with cultivation or knowledge in this area.

[theobromos]

I am not absolutely sure but I think it was some chlorinated or sulphurous alkaloids that put me off the idea of the American Nuphar.

Biol Pharm Bull. 1996 Sep;19(9):1241-3. "Potent immunosuppressive principles, dimeric sesquiterpene thioalkaloids, isolated from nupharis rhizoma, the rhizoma of Nuphar pumilum (nymphaeaceae): structure-requirement of nuphar-alkaloid for immunosuppressive activity."

Yamahara J, Shimoda H, Matsuda H, Yoshikawa M.

Research Institute for Production and Development, Kyoto, Japan.

Potent immunosuppressants, the dimeric sesquiterpene thioalkaloids, 6-hydroxythiobinupharidine (2), 6,6'-dihydroxythiobinupharidine (3), 6-hydroxythionuphlutine B (5) and 6'-hydroxythionuphlutine B (6), were isolated from a natural medicine, Nupharis Rhizoma, the rhizoma of Nuphar pumilum (TIMM.) DC., through bioassay-guided separation together with five quinolizidine alkaloids (8, 9, 10, 11, 12). Dimeric sesquiterpene thioalkaloids (2, 3, 5, 6) were found to significantly inhibit anti-sheep erythrocyte plaque forming cell formation in mice spleen cells at 10(-6) M concentration. At this concentration, 2, 5 and 6 were found to exhibit no cytotoxicity to mice spleen cells, and 3 also showed only a little cytotoxicity. In addition, the inhibitory activity of several Nuphar alkaloids, dimeric sesquiterpene thioalkaloids (1, 4, 7, 8), and monomeric sesquiterpene alkaloids (9, 10, 11, 12) on anti-sheep erythrocyte plaque forming cell formation was examined and some structural requirement of Nuphar alkaloid for immunosuppressive activity was determined.

¡Hi friendly!

[friendly]

Mescalito: Did you get my email?

[friendly]

Hi Theo.

More tincture revelations:

I had gone home and was sitting around the house this ewvening when the phone rang and it was my girlfriend.

We spoke for a short while and I remembered a dream I had that woke me up at 6:30 this morning after being unable to sleep all night and finaly falling out at around 5:00 am.

In the dream I was in the greenhouse on her farm tending to my cacti.

The door was open slightly behind me to the right.

Suddenly, there was a very loud crash of breaking glass and she began to scream from outside the door that all her antique dishes had broken. I stood in the doorway of the greenhouse trying to figure out what I had to do with it and if I was being blamed. Then I woke up, grateful that it was only a dream.

I went through the day and forgot about it until I spoke with her a half hour ago.

She then told me that at 6:30 am this morning she had dropped her antique plates on the kitchen floor while rearranging the cabinet and several had broken, although not the best ones.

Usually when I take a lily product it puts me in and out of the afterlife/other world for three days, but this tincture did not seem to have the visionary aspects I am used to.

It seemed more stimulating. Also, I had two busy days where so much was going on outside I never got a chance to go inside and I assumed the experience was over. Now I'm not so sure.

The dream certainly fits in with character of the vision of my deceased mother on Blue Lily; something taken from the dream world that is reality in this one.

And the vision was given in just one scene, simply and direct, as they all have been; just a glimpse before being yanked back.

[waterdragon]

good info to be had here -

http://www.victoria-adventure.org/waterlil...lies_index.html

[Slarty Fart Blaster]

Welcome Friendly...

Glad to see you here and im sure you will have plenty of interest in Lilly or Lotus.

Still loving Cognitol

All the best.

[Fractalhead]

Hi guys,

First, I'd like to say thanks to the contributors to the promotion of Nymphaea spp.. Since attention has been drawn to this genus, I've tried a few methods of ingestion but my favourite is now the following:

10g of dried blue lotus flowers soaked in ~1L white lambrusco goon in a coffee plunger for 48 h. Filtered, evaporated down to a sugary brown lotus smelling syrup. Don't burn it but rather, when it gets syrupy transfer to a baking dish (or preferably transfer to a baking dish while still watery and reduce to syrup in the oven), add flower, sultanas, brown sugar and soy milk, kneed and mix with a little butter or whatever and then bake in moderate oven until spongey. Serve hot or cold with icecream or your favourite sauce (we had organic strawberry soy yoghurt and banana slices) yummy. Serves 2-4. Effects were felt by all 4 ppl but we need to repeat the experiment without other confusing factors

cya later

[friendly]

Tincture: it gets stranger, yet.

Futher conversation with my girlfriend reveals that the dream was at 6:30 and the dishes broke at 7:30.

[Plant Pimp]

I have yet to experience any plants from this genus, but am I to understand that all Nymphaea sp are active to varying degrees? I found out that Nymphaea odorata grows in my region. If so, I will have to look for some in the summer. Has anyone tried cultivating lillies in an aquarium indoors?

Cheers

[mescalito]

Hey friendly...you're not the DJ I take it!

Yes got your pm thanx very much:)

Plant Pimp...I'm thinking seriously about growing these at home,as big W has these neat blow-up pools which aren't too pricey,and would be perfect indoors or out.We bought one for the kids this year and I think one for me :D next year!!

Great link above too WD, I spotted it last week in fact....what a beautiful paradise this place is.Looks like this genus is the next big thing.

[friendly]

Waterdragon's link gets one to the GRIN-NPGS database for Nymphaea species.

According to them, N. caerulea=N. ampla.

N. ampla is the white water lily of Central America mentioned in Plants of the Gods as being used by the ancient Mayans for identical purposes as N. caerulea was used by the Egyptians.

It's no wonder; they're the same species.

Now I can stop looking for N. ampla; I've already got it.

CRC Ethnobotany Desk Reference lists N. odorata as being used as an anodyne and for cough, among other uses.

Seeing as it is also used as an eyewash, for mouth ailments and throat irritation, there would be less likliehood that it is toxic.

Based on this entry, I would assume there is some activity. Anodyne (pain relief) and cough relief are two symptoms which could indicate there is potential psychoactivity.

I suggest cautious experimentation; start with a low dose and gradually work upwards until either psychoactivity or toxic reaction is noticed.

I read a report by someone from South Africa that mentioned that when younger, this person and a friend pulled up some N. caerulea roots from the bottom of a pond and ingested them with good results.

Has anyone else tried the root/rhizome?

[ 14. December 2003, 08:30: Message edited by: friendly ]

[reshroomED]

I'm currently experimenting with N gigantea rosea.

Anyone have any experience with these?

ed

[Rev]

WD - ill know about roots by next week

There will also be some blue lilly plants available shortly (after they recover)

[friendly]

More psychic strangeness: Last night I enjoyed the visit of an old friend who is a real fun guy.

This was my first visit with him since trying the Lily seed tincture and having the dream of dishes breaking an hour before it really happened.

In the middle of last night's late night visit, I was suddenly seized by the shake-you-down-to-your-core conviction that something was seriously, horribly, dreadfully wrong somewhere involving someone I know and I immediately thought of my girl friend, not of my immediate family, for some reason.

This conviction was solid and unshakable for the rest of the night, causing me much anguish.

I called her this morning (it was very late last night when this happened) to see if she was ok and told her the story. She said she was fine and nothing was wrong on the farm with any of the animals.

Four hours later she called me back. Her mother's sister had suffered sudden and complete kidney failure last night on the east coast and was in the hospital in critical condition in a coma.

This 'vision' is the kind of thing I have experienced previously from Lily usage, but not from anything coprophilic.

Not that it makes the experience any easier to handle.

This is getting to the point of when I bioassay something I end up with 'visions' of things 'beyond the pale'. It doesn't even have to be lily.

I now believe the Lily door, once opened, can be accessed by other alternate states.

The Emboden mention of Lilies and Mushrooms in conjunction in a temple carving in Mexico hints at a possible synergy.

Mushrooms spring from 'dead' material or waste; their connection with rebirth or the afterlife can be easily extrapolated from this.

My questions are these: Has anyone else out there experienced psychic or visionary effects from the lilies and if so, what are they?

Has anyone experienced such effects from any combination of lily and mushroom or any other combination including lily?

Any 'strange' experiences following lily usage by a week or less or upon ingestion of the next alterative after Lily?

Any fanciful dreams with strange imagery?

Occurrances that seem 'untoward'?

Deju vu or successful if unconsciously directed episodes of divination?

Surreal or superreal dream states?

It's important to pay attention to the imagery of the dream state; that's where the messages are.

[ 29. December 2003, 08:22: Message edited by: friendly ]

[Rev]

yes yes yes

Have you seen my post on cumulative lillies and hoasca strangeness?

http://www.shaman-australis.com/cgi-bin/ub...ic;f=2;t=001423

You and I have had access to as much blue Lillies as we need and i think weve both had the experiences weve had because weve taken it over cumulative periods. Most other i know havent had it as much or as often - and i feel that this is required, and i reccomend a strongly visionary entheogen to finsih with as it seems this catalyses the experience and helps your mind articulate this strange space

I alos had visions of an aztec priest and vision sof blood spattered petals - like the flower demanding tribute and sacrifice

They trap insects and the pollen on the drowned insects germinates tand pollinates the ovaries

This bloodhungry tendency came out in my visions

The Lillies realm i think is related to death, its narcotic properties, intoxicating scent and the states of consiousness. But its not a vision of death thats sinister, not as you might say, related to something that makes death from life

but rather makes life from death, Geometric Chaos from Linear Order (order is rigid stillness and therefore death)

All these things are associated with the Lotus and lilly - cosmic rebirth or rebirth into the afterlife

Perhaps as a result of a lilly cult the Aztecs view of death was restructured so that the mass human sacrifice that occurred was understood and accepted (even if not well liked ). If what lies beyond the grave is seen to non threatening and understood then death is not to be feared

Likewise the Egyptians were obsessed with the afterlife and the afterlife and as we know devoted considerable manpower and economic resources to cults and artefacts related to it

The more insights i have with the lilly the better in perspective i feel it puts these ancient cultures, to not just know and accept but to really empathise and GET the way they might have felt through the lilly. Of course i have my own cultural bias that alter my perception but through shared Entheogens and some study i think we can come closer than ever.

If the river styx is as covered with lillies as i think it will be ill be taking over the job as ferryman

BTW nothing confirmed with the roots yet - an extract is still planned as they are kinda spongy

I dont have any 100% ethanol or id do that first

as for the oneirogenic potential - ive been taking calea now every second night for a week to aid in sleep and dreams. I think perhaps a combo of lilly and calea might prime me for some dreamscape exploration

I dont think simple pharmacological interactions ie MAOi plus tryptamine equals trip etc explains it. I think its a layering of experience effecting the psyche at different levels, so the picture is that of a change in the psychedelic symphony and not so much amplification of any one note.

I also didnt get any effects with casual use (Tea or in wine) though i did feel the cumulative susceptibility. It takes extended use plus a pyschedelic catalyst

[ 07. January 2004, 00:52: Message edited by: reville ]

[t st tantra]

rev,profound,ey!!!

my lilly experience has changed from something i relate to the fragrance to something more akin to sally visuals.still working to understanding of this.

i reccommend using water lillies in the dark and would appreciate some feedback about this.

t s t .

[waterdragon]

reville:

I alos had visions of an aztec priest and vision sof blood spattered petals - like the flower demanding tribute and sacrifice

They trap insects and the pollen on the drowned insects germinates tand pollinates the ovaries

this is a good reason in itself to only process those flowers which are open. whilst gathering spent flowers recently for seed i noticed (apart from the offensive smell) that there were insects trapped inside including decaying blowies. don't fancy a tea of that.

[theobromos]

Hey, rev, I had a vision of a skull during a nelumbonated orgasm recently. It was a very lively and party-loving sort of death-symbol.

N. caerulea is not equal to N. ampla, a mistake was made in calling an individual of N. caerulea by the name of N. ampla.

Nymphic, lotic, nymphaeous, lotous, nenupharated?