Where/how did your fascinations begin?

[Yawning Man]

Geez...let me think hmmmm.

Started with pot, driving out to the bush most nights and smoking in my mates car then walking around the bush at night made me think of the bush aa a real spiritual place...then hopping on the bonnet while my mate drove along dirt roads. After hanging out in the bush for so long we eventually stumbled across mushrooms and they were a blast and again tripping in the bush reminded me of the 'Aura' of the bush........bush.

Then got a traineeship in horticulture, learnt about native plants which was great. But one of my work mates about 7 months into the traineeship revealed he could obtain lsd. So i got a few tabs for me and some friends and had the most profound, amazing experience of my life. A bit of a shock to the nervous system but that trip strengthened my belief that these substances can aid in spiritual development.

Then 07 was the year of the mushroom. Many trips made me appreciate these amazing and powerful fungus. Also started a course in conservation and land management and met some trippers who informed me of a particular species of acacia and a type of cactus.

So this time last year i had my first cactus brew. This was a massive learning experience. The sheer power of the plant and the presence of it's spirit during the trip forced me to respect the power of plants. I'll prob get shouted down for this and fair enough, but we basically stole the cuttings from a persons garden, right there bad karma. So it stands to reason that the trip was fairly difficult, for a close friend of mine especially who was reduced to a child/zombie like state, unable to respond to any of our questions etc. So we had a couple of cuttings left over and i thought i would grow them as a sign of respect to the plant. Then basically just started learning about cacti and the many many other enthogens one could grow. Found these forums and continue to learn.

There's so many holes in that it's just not funny. Any questions i'm happy to answer.

cheers

[Chiral]

so what was the cactus....?

H.

[chilli]

mutant, I was referring to your comment: "I liked especially the defending of the definite ego-structure of each individual as a way of mechanism and coping with"

I thought you were referring to the way people interpret their history in a way that individuates them, thought it was interesting because I had a similar impression.

I like what you said about what jew and christian shit philosophies and ideologies did to ancient knowledge of drugs. They banned and chased it down as much as they could, even till the late middle ages.

Hey? I didn't say that. Probably true though.

[chilli]

...we basically stole the cuttings from a persons garden, right there bad karma. So it stands to reason that the trip was fairly difficult

If you consider stress due to latent guilt and fear karma, yes it stands to reason

[~shameless~]

Listening to my dads tunes, Pink floyd, Led zeppelin, the beatles (of course!!), Grateful dead, Doors ect

Also watching the 'Woodstock' movie at about 14 years old.

My first ride was maryjane - DXM possibly saved my life - i really cut down on drinking booze and droppping after that robotrip , amazing insight into where i was going and how i should be feeling about myself

[compost]

Sublime Crime,

I thought you were referring to the way people interpret their history in a way that individuates them, thought it was interesting because I had a similar impression.

Do you have a story or do you speak from some alternate ego-less realm?

[Yawning Man]

If you consider stress due to latent guilt and fear karma, yes it stands to reason

@ Hunub kue - It was a Trichocereus Bridgesii.

@ Sublime Crime - Wasn't so much the guilt because i was an ignorant, selfish little fucker and didn't care that we were destroying someones hard work. Karma yes and angering the plants spirit.

cheers

[mutant]

mutant, I was referring to your comment: "I liked especially the defending of the definite ego-structure of each individual as a way of mechanism and coping with"

I thought you were referring to the way people interpret their history in a way that individuates them, thought it was interesting because I had a similar impression.

oh...

well, unlike many people in the 'community' I firmly believe it's kind of pointless [to me anyway]to dismiss or try to dismiss the central role of 'ego' in being. Individuality is not only a means to interpret our history of being or see ourselves in the 'big picture', but, I believe, always has been the motivational power of every being, well primates and bigger animals, not ants actually

Most insects 'work' in groups and don't think much if any, bigger animals 'work' in groups or even individualy, but care for oneself mostly and think individually.

And sure it helps to map human behaviour... and to locate where we are at and why is that.. etc..

I will note, if this didn't come loud and clear that the comment was opposed to a different negative point of view of ego , common in psychedelic communities, in which ego is a 'bad thing' and must be melded in the universal one, the universal being and so. In such approaches , Ego is seen as the cause of all harm, which in a way it's true.

I find, ego is the core of life, the centre of the world, I guess my left brain lobe is way stronger than my right one

I especially commented on this 'defence' of ego and egoism/individualism as this came from Inyan... Happy to point this out.. Now don't ask me why especially Inyan! Its this mumbo jumbo thing again

[mec]

Discovering this forum coincided with me having some strange dreams about drugs, can't remember which came first. The forum reminded me that I use too be interested in psychedelics when I was a teenager. I keep returning too the forum because of the range of topics and the open mindedness you find here. I once borrowed a book, as a teenager, called "Altered Sates of Consciousness", a very big dry technical/scientific book, but fascinating at the time. I never part-took of the substances. I was accused of stealing this book by the library. One of the dreams I had which I call the "Salvia Dream" turned out too be very prophetic, about my relationship with my parents and something too do with numbers. The dream told me it was a salvia dream, it communicated so much in such a simple way. I've never had a dream like that since.

Well thats the story so far.

Edited January 1, 2009 by mec

[chilli]

I thought you were referring to the way people interpret their history in a way that individuates them, thought it was interesting because I had a similar impression.

Do you have a story or do you speak from some alternate ego-less realm?

Haha, not at all, I just thought it was an interesting observation.

Everyone creates stories to make sense of their life, including me... I think it might be a natural and useful function of the human mind, so I'm not bagging it, I just find it interesting.

Actually, I don't think there are many conscious beings outside of cults that are truly egoless, and I don't really think it would be a very healthy thing to become, but some people do seem to be less aware of the effect of the ego on their thinking and actions than others... anyway, ego is such a useless term these days because it's so loaded.

Let's just say I'm more enlightened.

Plus, you can call me "doctor"

I hope no smileys are necessary after those last two comments, but you never know around here.

Edited January 1, 2009 by Sublime Crime

[chilli]

@ Sublime Crime - Wasn't so much the guilt because i was an ignorant, selfish little fucker and didn't care that we were destroying someones hard work. Karma yes and angering the plants spirit.

But there is a latent guilt/fear associated with stealing, unless someone is a psychopath

I generally find explanations that account for physical causes before resorting to mystical concepts a lot more convincing due to their simplicity and sufficiency... why posit plant spirits when basic psychology can explain as much?

Strangely, I have a friend who had a very similar experience when he was in his twenties and came to similar conclusions... he thought everyone looked like vicious lizards because the plant spirit was punishing him for stealing, but after another 30 years of experience with such things he now tells me it seems so obvious that he had a bad trip because of bad "set"

[chilli]

oh...

well, unlike many people in the 'community' I firmly believe it's kind of pointless [to me anyway]to dismiss or try to dismiss the central role of 'ego' in being. Individuality is not only a means to interpret our history of being or see ourselves in the 'big picture', but, I believe, always has been the motivational power of every being, well primates and bigger animals, not ants actually

Most insects 'work' in groups and don't think much if any, bigger animals 'work' in groups or even individualy, but care for oneself mostly and think individually.

And sure it helps to map human behaviour... and to locate where we are at and why is that.. etc..

I will note, if this didn't come loud and clear that the comment was opposed to a different negative point of view of ego , common in psychedelic communities, in which ego is a 'bad thing' and must be melded in the universal one, the universal being and so. In such approaches , Ego is seen as the cause of all harm, which in a way it's true.

I find, ego is the core of life, the centre of the world, I guess my left brain lobe is way stronger than my right one

I especially commented on this 'defence' of ego and egoism/individualism as this came from Inyan... Happy to point this out.. Now don't ask me why especially Inyan! Its this mumbo jumbo thing again

Haha, I didn't read this until after I made that response to compost, sounds like we are on the same page, or the same book at least!

[compost]

ok doctor, very balanced.. I must agree it is interesting

Ha and next time I'll post smiley with questions and maybe one day be privy to your story..

[The Dude]

mutant, are you referring to the stories on this thread, or something else?

Chullii, the Greek word pharmakeia is spoken of in a negative context in the New Testament, usually translated as sorcery or magic, eg. to Babylon in Revelation "by your pharmakeia the nations were deceived", but it relates to mixing of potions etc, so there are people who say this applies to drug users today, some would even go so far as to say pharmaceutical companies and doctors etc.

Surely any external influence on the internal body can be seen as a 'drug'. TV.. food.. sport etc.. everything. With that in mind the negative connotation may be about the intent of the manipulation, not the fact that this multifaceted experience is infinitely manipulated by everything. I'm of the thinking that reality is itself a deception, so although this is the 'evil' polarity, it is necessary; out of murkyness comes clarity.. we all love that feeling don't we?

...back to the question though.

what got me interested in these drugs originally was the mystery. It is by means of propaganda and misinformation and myths and the apparent effort at ignoring drugs that we are forever drawn to this awesome rebellious thing. I remember watching The Doors movie, the scene when they mung on peyote in the dessert and there's this mystical awe in their eyes and some heavy shit about life and death going on and pupils juxtaposed with sunsets and talk of 7 mile long snakes of which each scale is a lifetime of experience or something.. and i thought, i got NFI what this means.. but i want to.

"It's a secret"

"shhhuutup!"

"I saw weird stuff in that place last night. Weird, strange, sick, twisted, eerie, godless, evil stuff! And I want in"

local dj would play a song with that sample, very apt reason for the allure of this 'scene' we know their is more going on, in that extra-sensory magickal symbolic realm and instead of signing up to some special group, we are hacking the matrix ourselves. Perhaps in a less organised or structured way and hence somewhat less potent than focused laser beams of magickal intent, like shamans practice, or occult programing or religion.

Lucid Dreaming is about the critical functioning of the brain. Sure it is fun sometimes experiencing the autopilot of your subconscious, but how much more memorable was it when you woke up IN your dream and regained control? We must notice those little 'abberations of the subconscious mind' the connections of self and other, and re-connect to the living dream in the world that IS.

I began this search, seeking knowledge, now i can't be certain of finding anything solid as proof of anything other than my own imagination. The first steps are destructive, to tear away the snakeskin of limiting belief, to then re-emerge as a naive child, ready to imagine and create anew.

+

On the topic of psychedelic dreams, back when i was first interested in this stuff I'd dream about buying mushrooms the size of massive steaks at supermarkets, and saw them staining blue or people fishing off a jetty for massive stingray sized shrooms. Or walking through a forest with 8foot tall shrooms. Then there was the dream where I ate mushrooms finally and all that happened was I pissed in my dream and as the stream hit the water it would go all psychedelically multicoloured. All this before I had any idea of what tripping really was.

Haven't had any 'high' dreams for a while now.

[mutant]

sounds like we are on the same page, or the same book at least!

yep, seems so

and yes, I always tend to find the 'bad set' explanation more truthful than 'angered plant spirit' . Moreover the fact that said you were

ignorant, selfish little fucker

might indicate a bad or random setting too...

the spirit is deep inside ;)

Edited January 2, 2009 by mutant

[JDanger]

On the topic of psychedelic dreams, back when i was first interested in this stuff I'd dream about buying mushrooms the size of massive steaks at supermarkets, and saw them staining blue or people fishing off a jetty for massive stingray sized shrooms. Or walking through a forest with 8foot tall shrooms. Then there was the dream where I ate mushrooms finally and all that happened was I pissed in my dream and as the stream hit the water it would go all psychedelically multicoloured. All this before I had any idea of what tripping really was.

Haven't had any 'high' dreams for a while now.

My favourite dreams ever have been about mushrooms. I've slept through alarm clocks while picking giant pan cyans with friends in deserted roadside paddocks on more than one occasion.

[Yawning Man]

But there is a latent guilt/fear associated with stealing, unless someone is a psychopath

Ahaha love that smily face there sublime

I generally find explanations that account for physical causes before resorting to mystical concepts a lot more convincing due to their simplicity and sufficiency... why posit plant spirits when basic psychology can explain as much?

Yeah man good point. But i remember at the time not giving a shit but also remember looking at the plant being cut up and feeling sad for it. And seeing that it was still very much alive i guess is how i concluded that its spirit existed and aware. So my guess is the guilt/fear was subconscious.

Strangely, I have a friend who had a very similar experience when he was in his twenties and came to similar conclusions... he thought everyone looked like vicious lizards because the plant spirit was punishing him for stealing, but after another 30 years of experience with such things he now tells me it seems so obvious that he had a bad trip because of bad "set"

This definitely played a part. My friends next door neighbors were out the back having a (very) quiet BBQ and would have overheard us talking about a variety of things. It took us a while before we realised they were there and after that some of the very cliche paranoid thoughts set in.

cheers

[Brew]

When I was younger I had a fascination for drugs, but also for nature, but also for meditation, for truth, to find if there is something tangable, some understanding for this experience.

I have explored chemicals and I must admit as far as happiness and contentment ever goes, drugs have come a second. Drugs for me, are like something to encounter in the future, yet everytime I do, I see it really only highlighting aspects of what is already happening, and drugs if anything help me go beyond habitual conditinioning to see what is already and actuaaly taking place, - hence drugs always coming a second place. As they are really not needed to give me what is already occuring. Various breathing and non breathing states tht I have explored have released more drugs in my system , better than my penang visits, my thai holidays in the eighties, lest I forget. Perhaps a quick method, for something I know can be better atatined with some effort naturatlly,

With that said, I am somewhat of a lazy son of a bitch, Oh well.

Edited January 6, 2009 by Brew

[rahli]

My first memory of plant shamanism is from reading clan of the cave bear when I was around 11 or 12 years old. From memory the shaman brewed datura. I've been enchanted ever since (not enough to brew up datura though, I have to admit).