Disgusting anti-smoking campaign imagery on buses

[James]

Is there a limit on what the government can display on it's anti-smoking campaign?

I mean, the campaign itself might be causing damage, at least psychological damage to the kids that are being exposed to the imagery.

One thing is to display the disturbing imagery on the cigarette pack, but having it displayed on public buses all over the city !

Isn't it just going over the top?

One of the major reasons for the so called "war on drugs" is to "protect the children".

Now exposing the children to all sorts of sickening imagery is ok???

Couldn't the imagery psychologically disturb the children?

Where are the psychologists ???

Doesn't anyone care ???

Fuck, I don't smoke but I'm so pissed off that I'm just about to start lighting cigarretes instead of candles in my ceremonial works !!!

God bless thy smokers, for they represent the liberty of decision and freewill as to smoke or not to smoke.

[MindExpansion]

I mean, the campaign itself might be causing damage, at least psychological damage to the kids that are being exposed to the imagery.

The only psychological damage i can see it doing to children is to make them associate cigs with negative imagery, sort of like electro-shock therapy but without physical pain. I think in that sense it is likely to be somewhat effective...but I don't think it is too effective on people who already smoke.

I am all for those campaigns, I believe in freedom of choice, but only when one has enough education to make an educated decision...and scoff as some may but those pictures are the truth, cigs will kill 50% of those who smoke... find me another drug with a fatality rate like that. That said if you want to smoke smoke, but know the possible consequences before you make the choice. And trust me, those pictures really don't do the genuine possibilities that much justice... google for some heart attack pictures, or the word 'atherosclerosis'... and there are just that many more too. And obviously people still make the choice to smoke...which is exercising their freedom of choice, but with something like cigs, 'responsible use' is far more difficult than with other drugs, where risks can be minimised via many methods.

Now I sit back and ready myself to be slammed by smokers...maybe not but we'll see.

Peace

[incognito]

makes u think why they keep it legal if they are so concerened.

maybee govts should ENCOURAGE smoking to combat the growing world population.

must make a fuk load from ciggy taxes to offset the cost of ant-smoking campaigns etc.

read a spun 'fact' today. more children are born in india every year than their are people in australia! full on!

[Evil Genius]

Truth can be hard. Sometimes you gotta hit people with a sledgehammer to make sure that they listen! I can see where your coming from but thats the reality! The News on the TV are also gruesome! When i was a child, i was way more traumatized from the horrible lung cancer death of my grandfather! The pics from sick people on the packages were harmless against that! And if these pics are really able to save lives, why not? When i was younger i wasnt aware of how dangerous smoking really is! Therfore i smoked for years! If i´d known better, i´d never started! bye Eg

Edited September 24, 2008 by Evil Genius

[James]

The only psychological damage i can see it doing to children is to make them associate cigs with negative imagery, sort of like electro-shock therapy but without physical pain.

Children say younger than 7 won't even have the racional understanding to figure out the logical and intentional association of the imagery to the "so called causing factor".

I'm surprised to find support for the government here. Well, if they are winning here, then I guess I'll just have to accept the defeat and understand that the world will just get worse and worse from here onwards... probably the best I can do is "let it be", but educate my children differently, showing them the difference and giving them the tools to enlighten their spirit and hopefully they will be reborn in another planet where people really CARE and LOVE each other in such a way that even displaying a disturbing image is considered an act of violence...

By the way, let's display some brutal imagery of wounds and cuts on Knife packs just to remind our fellow men that knives can cause damage too, oh and Car advertisments should show disgusting crash scenes with bodies torn apart just to remind people what can happen if they don't drive properly.... yes, bring on the ugly and brutal, yes that's what HE want's, huh

heheh, sorry for being so negative

[Vertmorpheus]

"The News on the TV are also gruesome" - uh, yeah it can be. Which is why they run "the following may disturb some viewers" and typically, sensible parents of lil ones don't let em watch it much, if at all. They're KIDS. afghanistan and Freddy Mac bother em none, leave em out of it. I hear maximum security prison showers are pretty gruesome, but lets assume we wont be expecting single digit lil people to have to sit and watch what goes on there for an hour a day to n from school.

You'd be surprised what children younger than seven can compute ;) Esp assuming that plenty of em actually do ahve some kind of contact with...serious life events. They don't all grow up strictly in bubbleblowing land. I can personally remember being about 5 or 6 when i worked out the cigs dad smoked could make him raelly sick... time to hide em, break em, chuck em in the bin. Helped me none, couple decades later... but I can very much remember the connection. And that was back then, kids these days are a lot more aware of lifes lil upfucks I find.

anyrate, im not entirely intellectually bereft and I STILL ended up smoking. In some ways, a 15 year old is much less intelligent than a 5 year old, haha.

If nothing else, many of those images are very,very similar to any other kind of vicious trauma... ya think some lil kid that got dragged to see his premmie-then-dying sibling in ICU isn't going to feel just a bit shitty at having to look at a sick lil bub connected to all kinds of machines? A child that just lost a parent to...whatever... might not get a bit peevish at the deathbedridden imagery of wahtever grey,stubbly "typical smoker" they feature now?

I'd like to see full size photos of car accidents erected at black spots and on especially dodgy roads, but that'd "upset" people wouldn't it now. It'd make ya think about Uncle Fred or your Best Buddy Bob, and what happend to them, when youre not up for being confronted....I don't necessarily think kids should be raised in isolation from reality but it's funny what we decide is and isnt ok to make em think about... esp given that smokers are blamed for most of the planets health issues, yet anytime i get in the car I see nothing but ppl doing 20 over the limit, crossing centre lines, driving on the phone, driving after "just a couple matie"... oh, but thats different hey... cos EVERYONE does that.I knnow what im doing. Chill out. How dare you abuse me, for me nearly killing you, you wanker.... well, not everyone does...and me smoking a cig now, probably WONT land YOU in a wheelchair next week, will it? But lets get the most upset over the least immediate influence, already.

Just make the shit illegal. Or make it legal to grow, use, have, just not SELL in any way. It DOES have a very,very high rate of illness and death.. somehow, I reckon if 50 years ago theyd have started hardcore chemical mechanics to make you get pathologically uptight if you don't knock off a joint every 35 minutes... we'd just have cancer wards fulla green smokers, rather than brown. As it is, the health system is set up to handle basically old-westerner-lifestyle-diseases. You'll find a bit more help towards the end dying of say...the big c...than you will from motor neurone disease.

I'd like to see the imagery extend yes, to knives, cars, tall buildings, small choking hazards, alcohol (esp alcohol), I want letter drops thru bohemian areas saying "ganj will fuck your lungs too". I want a non stop guilt campaign on all streams of media targeting FAT PEOPLE...yknow, those self abusing neglecterinos who dont think twice about making me look at em, taking up more space in public, blocking emergency exits, damaging backs of medical staff, clogging up the health system with their diabetes and their collapsed knee joints. I want labels on bags of sugar.... "energy bars".... white bread... pork crackling...all saying " abusing this product will make you fat and sick". "abusing this product to make you feel better inside makes me feel a bit crook about how you look on the outside". I want warnings labels on coke with pictures of half my mates' TEETH... and ditto for most asthma inhalers. I want warnings on bore water (danger :flourine will fuck your teeth and bones), warnings on paint (this product will fuck your kids up for months) warnings on shoes (running in the wet can make you look silly) warnings on torches (caution: do not use in the dark), warnings on pets, warnings on stairways. Fuckit, warnings on warnings. Warnings on dettol handwash (caution, this product will make you seem like a nancy and will cause your kids to grow up fearing hordes of invisible gribblies).

Light up a ciggie on the footpath next to a hectic 4 lane road and ppl glare at ya for polluting their air... esp if the kiddies are with em... maybe time to start getting all righteous next time someone starts a barbie in the back yard, is seen buying any processed, refined, fatty foods at all... you cant starve your kids to death but you can feed em til theyre morbid lil blobs of butter, no worries. But you better not say a damned thing when you next see some kid being dumpedi nto daycare with a gutfulla heinz GM crap at 6 weeks of age whe ntheyre not spending nights in a toxic compound, or huffing the chronic fumes from the two or three cars parked in front of every house in the street.

Ciggies are bad for ya... just ban em. Or stop whining. Surely the govt running ads showing just how bad they think it is, is just admitting liability for those that get sick from buying em, given they profit? Bit like the old "dangerous dog" sign... just means you knew about the problem and didnt fix it, hey.

I smoke, I keep it away from others and am under no illusions about what it can do to someone. But I am not the root of all evil. One day, I'll probably get sick and die from them. Same could happen if I knnocked off KFC for dinner 5 nights a week too, why am I not seeing warnings on the drive thru sign? Cos smokers are the one group left we can all put the boot into

We're apparently eating better than ever before, smoking less than never before, know more about shit than ever before...which is weird, since plenty of things seem to be kinda fucked up and there's no shortage of ppl dying of cancer is there? And I can't see that changing anytime soon, no matter who gives up what.

VM

Edited September 25, 2008 by Vertmorpheus

[Ace]

if these pics are really able to save lives, why not?

Exactly. Most kids are watching similar full-on stuff in movies and on tv, so why not on the side of a bus? At least the anti smoking imagery is aimed to save lives, not encourage violence or anything like that. I'm all for it. I think its one of the main reasons why people are finally waking up the dangers of smoking. Stating that they cause cancer, heart attacks, gangrene, emphysema (sp?), etc in written form is one thing, but most people just dont get it because they have either never seen the effects of these things or they get complacent in the words and dont really associate them with reality (more just the side of a ciggie pack/articles about smoking). Pictures/photos get the point across FAR better because our species (or at the very least, our society) seems to take things in much more when they are presented with visual cues (a very basic example of this is kids watching TV instead of reading books because of the fast, bright colours, shapes, sounds, etc that come from well made shows rather than piles of text in a book. Another might be the amount of kids who'd prefer to read a comic/picture/pop up book over a children's novel).

makes u think why they keep it legal if they are so concerened

Are you kidding (probably a little tongue in cheek )? They know prohibition doesnt work - especially with those commodities (alcohol, tobacco, sugar, caffeine, etc) that are currently bringing in huge amounts of $ (and have been for centuries) in our western world. If they were to ban ciggies outright they'd have the exact same uprising that the US had in the 1930s with the prohibition against alcohol. It just doesnt work and they are well aware of that fact. IMO the main reason why these cause such a comotion as far as prohibition/personal rights/etc is because they have been socially/legally accepted for many generations and for the entire lifetimes of everyone currently alive in our society. The same is not the case with illicits because they have always been viewed as 'evil' substances that ruin families/lives/etc thanks to propaganda, bad science, outright lies, misinformed parenting, etc - check out Reefer Madness for one example of over the top government propaganda regarding illicits. I'm not saying that every illicit has this background but several should be legalised if it is supposed to be a case of safety vs dangers. There are several schedule 1s that are supposedly much safer than tobacco and alcohol which shows just how ridiculous the current system is.

[MindExpansion]

IMO the main reason why these cause such a comotion as far as prohibition/personal rights/etc is because they have been socially/legally accepted for many generations and for the entire lifetimes of everyone currently alive in our society.

So so true, I agree with all you just said Ace.

VM, I'm guessing you were sorta taking the piss there lol. Honestly though, nothing made me think more about not driving like an idiot than seeing my mates car after a fatal (not for him, but fucking close to it) accident, with the undercarriage resting on the floor, and blood literally cm's thick on the door where it rolled, with fucking minties stuck in it...that image was so real, and so brutal it will never not shock me and nearly brings me to tears just thinking about it. The pictures are one thing, but to me even more effective are the ones showing the social effects of the images. So knowing that you can get a stroke is shocking, but knowing that the stroke may leave you unable to talk or move (like the one ad on tv) is to me far more horrifying and effective, the idea of not being able to communicate with those around me, and knowing that I would be a burden on them financially, socially and emotionally is far more important than realising that i might have a stroke, get me? I think that is why seeing my mates car shocked me more than seeing those ads where people crash.

I feel that it is hypocritical of us to tell people that they can't inject tobacco (in it's heavily processed commercial form), because I feel it is their choice, and like VM said, now that smoking in confined spaces is a thing of the past, it really doesn't effect me that much (except for the dicks that cant be stuffed taking their butts with them and they end up being the main feature of a public garden...ironically see any garden in front of a hospital to see what I mean). SO let them smoke it, just like I should be allowed to smoke MJ, or meth, or heroin or opium, so long as I don't go about beating people up or robbing them, or killing them on the road as a result of my drug use. But as with the use of any substance, they deserve the right to proper education of all the negative consequences...and with illegal drugs I think people are more willing to accept the negative consequences as fact because of the social stigma surrounding them, but with cigs, which as Ace said have been accepted for years and are legal, the idea that they do have SERIOUS possible negative impacts really needs to be drilled home for people to like them.

Also, it is amazing to me to think that in this country, we must be generating over $31.5B a year from cigs to just cover their costs.

So while I am against gov. propaganda, I am for education, and in the case of smokes, they aren't really crossing the line into propaganda.

Peace

[indigo264nm]

Its no where near as bad as when I was in high school we had to watch a video about STD's that showed actual pictures of every one you can think of in vaginal, anal and wang form.

Now THAT was disturbing.

[Stinkmeat]

I think if these graphic images actually work, then it is obviously a good thing that people are taking their health and the health of others into consideration. I don't nessecarily think it's the best way to go about it though. I've been exposed to these sort of images for most of my life. They have progressively become more graphic. I don't think they have had any effect on my decisions about smoking, driving, drinking, whatever.

The graphicness of them has actually desensitised me to that form of warning. If I see a picture of dead bodies on the news, a gangrenous leg due to smoking, lungcancer ads, stroke ads etc. It doesn't really phase me. I think their meaning has lost a lot of impact (especially for me) over time. By making the images worse, it is just desensitising us further. Not really getting to the core education of the issue.

The meanings and ideas behind the images are what needs to be focused on.

Stink

[MindExpansion]

If I see a picture of dead bodies on the news, a gangrenous leg due to smoking, lungcancer ads, stroke ads etc. It doesn't really phase me.

I think this is why it would be more effective to have an interview with the sufferer.

Peace

[Stinkmeat]

I think this is why it would be more effective to have an interview with the sufferer.

Peace

Yeah I agree Mind.

It would be good if education programs could involve some first hand contact with victims or the victims family. That way it would hit home a lot more. Not saying kids should be subjecting to seeing graphic injuries/illness first hand. But if I heard someone talking personally about how it has effected their life, then it has more of a direct influence. I don't know or care about the people on a cigarette packet, therefore it has little meaning to me.

My two cents worth

Stink

[MindExpansion]

I totally agree, what they need to do is get a camera down to the respiratory ward or cancer ward or stroke ward of a hospital and interview some people who have been effected and their close loved ones, because just as important as realising how much those things can fuck you up, its important to realise that when you get fucked up, you change lots of other lives as well. Particularly with disabling strokes (most of them) and serious respiratory disorders.

Peace

[inpsyght]

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Edited February 7, 2012 by inpsyght

[Vertmorpheus]

semi taking the piss

"Exactly. Most kids are watching similar full-on stuff in movies and on tv, so why not on the side of a bus" - Ace

Because IMO, what you allow your children to watch in your own home on your own tech is up to you (barring obviously just sick and illegal kinda carryings on, of course). Private n public obviously differ. And a lot of kids are allowed to watch some pretty wrong stuff.

Some kids aren't, at least in the age bracket I'm thinking about, they watch set shows at set times and TV is not a constant background hum. This way, when your kid starts doing daft things like belting their sister back and forth across the face (like in Bee Movie ) or running into traffic to retrieve lost things (like Bernard the Bear) or calling people stupid nutters (like in Albies World), you know who to pin it on More seriously, it means you can actually discuss things that might upset or confuse them, instead of assuming it will all be ok in the end. You can't unsee something, I forget the number but it takes basically one millionth of fuck all for an image (as you were kinda getting at yourself, and M.E too) to burn into a childs brain. Anyones, but esp a child, theyre hardwired to retain imagery.

Also words. Mine ran around for three days calling everyone and anyone in sight a murderer. Yeah, thanks Lion King. (that, and the superhardsell that basically whoever is the rough n tumble mass marketed side of society will always win out in the end...fook that). rated General doesnt mean particularly bright now, does it. There is NOTHING made commercially that is entirely safe for non-supervised consumption especially in early childhood. Seen the nanas in jamas with their running down the stairs? Faking injuries? Morgan the bear losing his nut and telling something hes going to "chop it into little pieces" just because hes not getting his way? Very valuable teaching times, as a parent, IF youre paying attention. If youre not, you just end up blasting em for things the telly told em was ok. and mummy n daddy said "go watch tv its kids shows", right? They know their shit.

Sideish note, I find quality AGE APPROPRIATE books when made available without hassle or issue to kids that have been raised with a love of books are just as popular as the tv, if not more so as you can blink without missing something. A 5 year old will, true enough, watch bob the builder more than he would read the Bible. But give him a bob the builder book and turn the tv off... or the book and a quiet neutral show that isnt constantly blaring and screaming for his attention (only to fail to deliver so theyre out in 10 mins asking for a snack, yes?)... and most kids ive seen are happy as pigs in muck. Though they will tend to inherit whatever opinion the oldies have of books, thats for sure. We watched ABC kids this arvo, on n off, also blew bubbles and then tonight read monkey n me, where the wild things are, and a book about a teddy that likes to garden. Not TOO many corpses, rotten teeth or scary dying hospital in there.

So that's private homes, private ideas. Cool. Actually, no, but cool for now. Buses are for the most part public transport. Public - Everyone. Including say, relatives of those that just died from the very illnesses depicted. Those just diagnosed. Those with PTSD where imagery like that is just a really, really BAD idea ...charlie being in the trees is a BAD thing, in a crowded bus full of asian australians!

I don't think a billboard saying "masturbate naked in puddles of goats blood" would stay on the wall at the train station for long, because it shouldn't. Yes, terrible things happen. Yes, life is unavoidable by its very nature. But those piccies arent life, in itself. Like if they started posting bills of ... maybe plundered genitalia and blurry smirking faces with an attached slogan about "watch out for drink spiking!"... yeah, gets the point across. But also just makes a lot of ppl sick in the guts too. As ME said, you can't adjust to a true dischord of an image, it's always there. Even just me describing an entirely mythical billboard or two has left its mark on minds. Adult minds. I don't think too many ppl want to have to think about what ghastly shit they may have to try and explain (maybe daily) to a confused 2 or 3 year old who is simply trying to catch a bus to go shopping or to the park, etc. Yes, I smoke. I know non smokers who feel the same (and who typically dont dont all look like glowing beacons of health despite what the quitline chickie is meant to make ppl think, versus the dark gritty crime scene of a smoker calling her up from his shitty low rent flat ).

They're propaganda.Most propa. is true, ish. True, sometimes. Yes, ciggies give you gangrene, sometimes. So does being a piggish lazy fat fucker who watches too much TV and eats McShit and Microwave Disappointment for tea every night.

But there's no rancid feet on my block of cadburys.

No "call diabetes australia for help" on my bag of (laughably titled) all natural confectionary. No age restrictions on who can buy cosmetics, fake food or mobile phones. Cancer seems to be a very selective disease, these days! Certainly wont ever get after all those non smoking ppls who live in airless smoggy suburbs and homes sweating a whole alphabet soup of nasty,nasty compounds. That will drive your kids nuts, so they get medicated some more. But eh, least nobody can enjoy a quick dart in the fresh air without having to feel like a JUNKIE

K, it has SOME nutritional value. What about the rotten teeth on diet and essentially nutritionally bankrupt softdrinks? Pictures of axed family members on mental meds.... worst case scenario, isn't it? Because it'd be over the top, we're all big enough and ugly enough to find our own facts, when it suits Them to tell us that. When it doesnt, we get told something else. Yippee!

Prohibition has never stopped entirely the supply of anything, that I can think of. But tobacco by nature is different to other drugs. You need it all the time, or not at all. You dont just buy a pack of durries once a year (ok, some do, most dont, its all or nothing). So you need entirely regular supply or decent subs in their place. You need to shift BULKBULKBULK material around to make any kind of money at all (not to mention fuel prices in all that, you cant fit enough in a long range tank to make it worth the trip ;) ). You cant really grow enough tobacco to sell commercially inside your house... average smokers chews thru (about) 20 sq metres at least a year, give or take. Growing it outside...well... its certainly nowhere near as hardy as ganj, sticks out like dogs bollocks, cant really be stealth trained and kept productive, I guess you could grow bulk in the bush somewhere and then turn the lot into some kinda goo but thatd be taking it a lil too far, I think. maybe not. It's also hard to fit a couple grands worth of tobacco in your spare tyre. You also need bullshit amounts of water, amounts that make a quiet outdoor green patch look like a cactus garden.

The product you ended up with would be instantly identifiable when being used ... in a nation of a few millions recently forcefully deprived smokers, that first whiff of chopchop would travel clear across the land, drool... it's also not "recreational" and theres basically no market in "one off" unless u can corner the maternity ward/bucks night dodgy backyard cigar club.

Sounds like a LOT of fucking around to make 50 percent of fuck all that nobody would want by the time you got it all sorted... itd become a quaint thing you found yokels and weirdos doing, the odd token show of defiance kinda patch of it, I reckon.

Import wise, we do get blackmarket stuff come in as it is but its mostly (from my understanding) dodgy international brands sold under the counter in places that sell other, legal cig brands anyway... with zero open trade, and heavy penalties over a product noone would pay THAT much for, I reckon they could stamp it out pretty well and pretty fast. QLD chopchop as it was, is a thing of history now, wholesalers refused to by from coops up that way purely BECAUSE they were losing so much stock out the back door (even going from a 1 ton to a half ton bale that could fit in a cruiser more neatly, lol).

Purely thru cost and social pressure, medical neurosis, media whatnots, plenty of ppl no longer smoke and even more will never take it up because esp with kiddies these days its seen as being a truly scabby useless thing to do with yourself. ganj is going the same way, and even IT is certainly NOWHERE near as abundant as it was not too long ago at all in the scheme of things. What IS around is twice or triple the price, and garbage. Appealing more to long term devotees than being capable of gaining new adherents to the faith, etc. Quality can be had but its rare as hens teeth, closely kept, and just a blatant rip off.

And thats with something that can be grown at commercial levels indoors, and outdoors still with a lil stealth. Hard to hide 50 hectres of bright bright bright green giant cabbages in the day n age of the helicopter n GoogleVoyeur.

Smokers, we're a dying breed one way or another!

VM

Edited September 25, 2008 by Vertmorpheus

[MindExpansion]

They're propaganda.Most propa. is true, ish. True, sometimes. Yes, ciggies give you gangrene, sometimes. So does being a piggish lazy fat fucker who watches too much TV and eats McShit and Microwave Disappointment for tea every night.

Man, I'm all against unhealthy eating too, and obesity is a huge problem, but not as huge as smoking...which really is a factor in, if not responsible for quite a lot of hospital admission. So yeh, educate people about obesity...it does play a factor in lots of nasty illness...but smoking is currently responsible for more. Now remember, the "someimtes" you mention above....is REALLY COMMON, like, really really common...so the propaganda isn't taking something that happens one in every 10000 smokers and making it seem like it happens to every smoker, which is the case with some other substances yes, but not cigs.

As far as ganj use dropping...Ive heard otherwise from memory, that it is rising.

I'll say it again so you don't think I'm revving you for being a smoker, its your choice whether to smoke, you know the possibilites, so your making your informed decision not to try and quit. Just the same as people can make the informed decision that they want to start smoking if the possible consequences are given. And like I said, for cigs, the ads are not propaganda, and are actually very much relevant and close to reality (if not a little less graphic than they could be, not that Im saying they should be), and as such are ok as educative tools rather than spreading bullshit.

Peace

[incognito]

fuck who are these kids? maybee these city kids need these images to prevent them evolving into complete sipper pussies?

geez i was cracking brains out of sheeps heads with an axe (after they had been slaughtered of course) at 7 yrs old for my old man.(shit come to think of that, ban the adds lol!) i dont think they are very terrifying images at all. u would have to be pretty much teetering on the edge of ur sanity to be disturbed by them i think.i mean look at the images on kids video games, as has been said before the news.

should put similar images on unhealthy foods i rekon, just to be fair, and alcohol. like gross pics of guys heads beaten in. morgue shots of drink drivers victims, statistics pertaining to alcohol related deaths,injurys,domestic violence , fucked up livers the works.

Its no where near as bad as when I was in high school we had to watch a video about STD's that showed actual pictures of every one you can think of in vaginal, anal and wang form.

Now THAT was disturbing.

hell yes indigo i know what u mean, the shock from those yr 10 science classes guarenteed me always tarping up, no matter what substance i may have been on at the time! worked for me!!!

even if condoms are the most FUCKED thing in the world, better than what can happen if u dont wear one.

Edited September 26, 2008 by incognito

[Vertmorpheus]

I missed something. Who are these kids who have unlimited and unsupervised access at say 5 years of age to violent games? Who is letting 3 year olds watch the news? Sick useless neglectful fucks, maybe. Everteens that would resent having to put the 'station in another room? People that can't get their hands off their cocks long enough to find the remote and turn the thing off? Who? And why, because some ppl DO let kids do that, does that mean the govt should plaster any free public space with horrific images to bother MINE despite our best efforts to keep her childhood, one fit for children?

And if you want a run down on how violent games ARE making ppl not only more violent, but better at being violent, read a book called Generation Kill.

Now, the sissies....They're the kids that hopefully will never end up thinking being desensitised and brutal is any kind of advantage in the long term. The kids off people that had similar upbringings... my other half and bubs mum grew up way out in gulf country doing all that cool country sheepdip stuff too... and somehow, she has about 10 percent as much tolerance of vile imagery as any closeted long term urbanite... weird, hey? When she should be alternating between say jumping on small furry animals, and playing that game where you do people in with a plastic bag, giggling hysterically all just whilst waiting for those shows that recreate sex crimes for ratings to come on Then again, some country kids just turn out as people, rather than roughnuts. The violence was a means to an end not a pasttime in itself. And it was in context, like debraining sheep for the frypan or the dogs... but if you can't see that theres plenty that would just about yak, if they had to watch your lil 7 year old self axing them, then maybe it DID fuck you up some. Never know, now. Butchery and brutality are not necessarily the same thing either. Blood is not itself scary, it's the reason you can see it that is.

Likewise, forensic workers I know are easily grossed out indeed. Returned servicepeople from many theaters can be triggered by ... not a whole lot at all. The couple coppers I've known can't handle watching cop shows. Whereas most smokers I know aren't bothered by those images, anymore than all the speeders are bothered by road stats or pics of holdens open like fishtins on the news. Quitline ads usually make me feel I want a smoke, which is deeply stupid but still kinda funny.

Every qlder I know grew up eviscerating toads for a laugh.. somehow, 20 years later it's just not as satisfying? Oh yeah, growing up... well, unless youre the kind that collects... dunno... goatskins and trail bikes, beer cans and have a Mad Keen spare cover... then youre out there teaching your kids the pointers so the ycan use their violent exploits as the basis of a warped and easily seen thru self image of being a hard bastard.

Which is weirder still, as most true hunters I know deplore cruelty or suffering in any organism, and certainly don't revel in gore. It's just a fact of their activities. But they also understand to get cleaned up before they get back to town, unless theyre tryhards and posers, and then they make sure they get extra bloody and start walking funny for some reason, like their balls have suddenly swollen.

Some of the most gentle and least accepting of horror people I know, are those that have PLENTY of exposure to it (well beyond the realms of video games) and its background and so really understand and can empathise, etc. Any dickhead can watch filth from age 10 and start with the "eh, it fuckin never bothered me fuckin any, ask the last cunt i hit in the head or the last person I used violent language with".

And some of the most violent people I know, pathologically roughnutted, don't even realise they're like that. Oddly enough, plenty seemed to grow up in households where they could watch Predator and Nightmare on Elm Street movies at single digit ages, typicalyl while their mum fucked some unit for a few drinks or they hid out from their Dad and his Mood. Yeah, wave of the future that. Most of these jokers I knew back in the day seem to belong to the Keep Your Kids in Long Clothes So Noone Sees The Bruises That You Inflicted To Stop Em Being Crybabies Club, now. Yay!

Thats how we end up with a culture that can't see corpses on telly without having to crack some deeply hilarious joke about em, to cover up that they ARE upset by it. I like sitting in a room when icky things come on telly, you feel everyone tense up and listen to em stop breathing, watch their feet and hands twitch and watch em stop blinking... then 5 mins later theyre cracking jokes or saying "hm, well that was a bit off" and wondering why they feel simply wrong for the rest of the night.

Whilst doing my traineeship I got the highly blessed task of mortar n pestling curettings and foetal tissue for gel purposes... gross. Smelt really, really wrongly familar. And I was ok that night. And ok with it now. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't be upset to see anti-abortion piccies all over the PUBLIC facilities I am expected to use to fulfil my social obligations.

I reckon we need to decide if everyone is actually really, really daft and needs things spelt out for em, ie pics and warnings on EVERYTHING... or maybe just credit ppl with some kinda sense and leave it up to them. I'd prefer the latter, theres enough wrong shit about the world without printing up millions of duplicates.

Curious really, we reading a lot of examples of ppl having images of an upsetting or disturbing nature strongly burnt into their minds for life... but refute that they could cause harm to a mind... or to society composed of minds... but when alls said n done, the rotten teeth on my champion ruby aren't making me quit. Most of em arent that gross... personally I find premmie life in a humidicrib to be pretty upsetting, but then I'm not a cool enough or harrrrrrd enough bastard to turn off my basic compassion.

I have personally seen level headed bright kids get very worried indeed specifically about those ciggie images, and know one couple whos littlest refused to look in the mirror in the bathroom for nearly two weeks after seeing the rotted teeth ones, as he was afraid his would look like that.No cigs in the house... it was the big sign in the SHOP that did it. Thanks guys.

Probably just a crybaby though, that kid with the imagination, a good dose of national service and getting knocked around a bit should sort that out. Park his lil bum in front of some hardcore BDSM smut to cheer him up a bit, perhaps. A few Lynch and Tarantino specials.

A whole lifetime to be an adult,watch gorey shit and brutalise others (and yourself). I really wish kids could just be kids for a few days now n then without having to be "prepared" or "toughened up" or "straightened out". the local school here has fake interview panel tests for year *4* kids. Some of whom have been faking sickies, developing rashes, ragging each other out and all the rest over it. Yeah, great.

By all that logic, the nicest ppl on earth are those that just expose themselves to small kids in public... at least they're EDUCATING them and showing them "reality"

Eh, long story short I don't think those pics make too many ppl quit, they do make a lot of ppl feel sick and I know for a personally observed factoid that they are upsetting kids. Two weeks of no brushing or real inspection on a late-teething milk drinkin kid who was til then really cool with brushing his teeth... and where theres one case, theres thousands usually.

VM

Edited September 26, 2008 by Vertmorpheus

[incognito]

I know for a personally observed factoid that they are upsetting kids

maybee thats part of the plan man, ur keen on drug education for kids yeah? well that is what can happen to you if u smoke cigs-

not ONCE have any minors that i know that have viewed the commercials have said anything about it in relation to being traumatised, usually just a 'whats that' or 'whatswrong with him'. answer-thats what can happen if u smoke ciggarettes. its not hard. its a good time to educate about the risks of smoking.

come-on now kids see alot worse than that everyday.

i do agree about warnings on fatty ,unhealthy foods wiht you 100%.

how about warnings on beer glasses, now thats an idea. maybee if a pisshead drinks from a glass he can read the dangers therof he wont be able to sue the barman and establishment for falling over or getting in a car accident on the way home.

Edited September 26, 2008 by incognito

[incognito]

and playing that game where you do people in with a plastic bag

is that on ps3?

[Ace]

Very good points Vert. However I think that Incog probably hit the nail on the head as it being a possible part of the plan - letting kids see it now to prevent them from living it down the track. I'll totally agree that it isnt the sort of thing that kids should be exposed to, however if it helps prevent future generations slowly killing themselves on something as toxic as tobacco/nicotine, then is it really such a bad thing? All for personal choices, but this is education, not just propaganda. Like ME mentioned earlier, the reality can be far worse that what is advertised.

I have lost 2 family members in recent years to tobacco and a third rellie has recently been diagnosed with cancer after spending ~50 years puffing away (quit about a decade ago) so I don't want to see any more joining those family stats. I think its safe to say that most families would probably have a similar story - why not try to change that trend? IMO the pics work and work well. Maybe not so much for people who already smoke (you can lead a horse to water...), however stats show that there has been quite a decline in smoking in recent years and IMO it has been due to advertising the negative imact it has on the consumer.

Your comments about fat/sugar laden foods are spot on - they need to be addressed too, however I think that society is starting to get a bit of a grasp on their bodies and what should and shouldnt be put in them (or at least from my narrow POV). Unfortunately the convenience and vast number of take aways often leads parents to take the easy route and swing past the golden arches or visit the colonel and they wind up paying for it with morbid obesity, diabetes, heart attacks, stroke, etc, etc, etc. I dont think visual health warnings are needed at these places yet (although obesity was coined an 'epidemic' a while back), however written warnings might not be such a bad thing. Something with a little more grunt than 'please enjoy responsibly' would be good.

I dunno - the whole imagery issue is a difficult debate. In many ways I think our idiotic, short-sighted society desperately needs it, but I really wish as a whole we had the maturity, common sense and self-caring to do our own research, take on advise where we should and look after ourselves, in all regards - be it tobacco/alcohol/general drug consumption, diet, materialism, energy/resources consumption, breeding rates, or whatever the topic may be. Just such a shame we live in such a stupid and self-centred society. Maybe I'm just being too negative?

[incognito]

see vert u should know by now im always right.

[incognito]

puttin my conspiracy freak hat on:

i WONDER if the govt enforced warning labels on cigs are put in place to maybee PREVENT the extent cancer sufferers and the victims of such depicted illnesses are in fact being put in place prevent the extent of litigation future sufferers can attempt in the future against govts and tobacco companys? will the be like-look we told u what it can do, we showed u what it can do yet u have free will and smoke them-fuck you-seeyal8er. maybee its all an exercise in minimising the amount of litigation against tobacco companys and governments ,in fact what they are spending are in fact saving trillions in the future?

have i had an intelligent original idea? someone tell me i have!! im evolving! at last! woo-hoo!

[Vertmorpheus]

Yes johnny, you are inevitably correct But I don't know if it will work for em, in the long run. Proceeds of crime, n all that.

propaganda doesn't mean bullshit... it means factual information carefully selected, processed, and placed by professional bullshit artists for their own profit or benefit.

Doesn't mean the message itself is invalid, or misplaced... just that it is important to remember why it is you are seeing it at all... and how you want your children education (and when, for that matter). STD's ar epretty nasty, as was said, we should put them on buses hey? for the kids, n all. Maybe some rich ppl with vested interests (and why else would anyone do it?) decide to better educate ppl about the dangers of say... home invasion. Ooh, theyd be some purdy pikkets, them! Maybe kids split n scraped with some domestic violence slogans attached. Shock value is al lwell n good, but IME, it only shocks those that have already been shocked enough, or are so readily shocked it's of no real consequence to add another to the list.

I keep getting the mental image of someone that has recently lost an infant, having to go to work so they dont lose their fucking house a week or two later and trying to NOT look at that lil bub with all the gear on. I know someone will always get set off by something, but yeah. Very powerful magic being thrown around there, by anyones standards, and for fairly dubious effectiveness it seems.

When was the last time you saw a massive paid campaign from the govt purely to make you feel happier?

It's the bipolar nature of it that I don't get. Sell em, but blame em. Addict you, profit from you, but blame you. And the selective nature... why are there no big signs from the govt. saying "hey, relax, smell those flowers!" or "family : pretty important" or "dont worry : we all know youre doing the best you can". Plenty of Don't- Bad -Wrong. Not much "wow, thanks for merging really sensibly just then and not fucking up anyones holiday!". "call this freecall hotline if you know of any parents you suspect are doing a bloody good job with their kids, we might send em a hundred bucks at taxtime".

Kids are pretty adaptive lil buggers, resilient as your last major gardening mistake... unavoidable reality is just that. But I would encourage some questioning when it comes to statist-esques plastered all over every available form of media accompanied with emotive but lets face it pretty generalise imagery. I know lifelong non smokers with teeth that bad, and old man dying of asbestosis who's x rays are truly frightening, diabetics with toes long gone... a common theme is NOT a direct causational thing and I reckon if we ate properly, lived properly, breathed clean air and drank real water, didn't live in a world where almost every manmade object now weeps complicated and terrifying chemicals... we could probably smoke a few hobbitpipes a day and not end up with triple bypasses hm?

But they decided (for SOME reason) that big signs saying "any use of this shit you can legally buy and use in public more or less might just kill you really messily" rather than "we're a pack of sick using pricks who poison your mind, heart and body and then talk you aroudn the the point where you are willing to blame yourself for it all". Any guesses why?

Scapegoating works because it seems workable... "I knew it was the immigants, even when it was the bears i knew it was the immigants". Many junkies smoked pot, many abusive spouses drank, many crazy ppl take hallucinagens... we all know em, we all loath em, to varying degrees... but its the variation itself that interests me. Some ppl on this forum will tell you alcohol is about the worst thing on earth, somewhere up there with uranium and DDT... but they might just take you up on a few drinkies if they're out of something else, hm?

What I find curious is that we can accept that smoking causes cancer, no worries, hands down,"makes sense" even though its very, very hard indeed to prove that ANYTHING causes cancer. "strongly suspected" maybe. "common lifestyle factor", maybe. I think more often than not smoking cigs is an indicator of health and lifestyle more consistently than it is a major defining factor. Unhealthy is unhealthy, once you get into percentile risk factors it gets a bit silly hey. A bus can sqush you flat, 100 percent of the time, if you try to step in front of a fast moving one. But you CAN smoke a cig, and NOT have your lungs fall out your bum. Which means the ads DONT stop kids at all, in many cases, same as "dope will send you nuts!" and "speed will kill you!" and "pills will kill you!" and "mushies will send you crazy!" didnt stop us as kids, because we heard or saw one slick commercial message that is true-ish... but then went out that night and saw plenty of otherwise pretty normal healthy ppl doing all those things and more and NOT having many dramas whatsoever... which was a lot more true NOW to someone with a terminal impulse for new experience, if that makes sense.

Smoke-curiing your flesh every hour every day every year for a lifetime will probably fuck that bit of tissue. No brainer. Who needs a sign? If your kids dont listen to you, why are they going to listen to a sign on a bus? really? cast your minds back.... "speed catches up with you". "because enough is enough" no more - its the law!" "no means no" .... you notice everyone driving more carefully, drinking less? I see plenty of piss artists driving about and know plenty of pretty sane ppl who still think of drink driving as a matter of avoiding RBTS rather than Big Bloody Trees... lower reporting rates for sexual assault? thru the roof... a tv ad campaign makes ppl feel like something is getting done, but yelling the question more loudly doesnt mean you can assume it's been answered.

A lifetime of cigs, plus a typical western diet, air qual, water qual, transport means, stress levels, housing density, plug in turn on LED bearing shite, mutagen levels, wierd synthetic crap in EVERYTHING, alcohol (also very carcinogenic, but can u cheat that one with a vape, hm?), occupational exposures, common building and manufacturing materials, pesticides, fallout, etc, probably WILL leave you a sick useless old person, or maybe not so old person... but if "everyone knows" that cigs cause cancer and make you really sick at 50, rather than 80, but at the same time "everyone knows" we're only "meant" to live to about 50... maybe we aren't doing so bad overall.

I know quite a few ppl that have either died, are dying, or by rights should be dead from cigs. Theyre mainly ppl that have also been in some fairly icky lines of work, exposure wise, ate a typically bland and arseclogging western diet for 50 or 60 years, most seem to manifest terminal cancers or bypass worthy complications hard on the heels of some other life upheaval... I also know plenty of leathery old fuckers that have spent a lifetime in the sun lunging down winnie reds and bundy rum and you couldn't stop them with a arsenic, let alone tobacco. Because they've kept busy, kept sharp, eaten fresh food, maintained a connection with a life source rather than an obsession with a death source ;) and didn't spend every last minute worrying about what's killing them now. They smoked a few cigs every day of their lives, and some still do, but they also probably do more hard graft in a year than plenty of the rest of us do in a lifetime. Their eyes give out from dust before their lungs giveout from smoke. Backs bent double

Either way, declining numbers of smokers is what we keep hearing, but more n more ppl i know are getting lumps, coughs and mood swings that just never quite go away , hey? But if it gets pumped into everyones head that "smoking does THIS!" if you ever get "THIS!", you can blame yourself, for the few years you did it as a kid, or you can blame some fairly harmless bastard you stupidly stood next too AFTER he lit his cig in a well ventilated area, a lifetime ago, rather than the big fuckin tunnel vent they built up the road, the pesticide factory that burnt down a few years back or the stuff they put on your FOOD that turns passionfruit leaves into dali-esque violins.

Especially when they could just ban them tomorrow.

Like everything else, hm?

VM

Edited September 30, 2008 by Vertmorpheus

[MindExpansion]

The newest ad on TV, with the guy who had throat cacner, then lung cancer, and just wanted to stay alive to see his daughter when she came to Aus in December but died after filming (true or not I don't know, but after the scandal about some of them being bs a while ago id go with true) almost had me crying first time I saw it.

It is some intense shit, but I think it agrees with the point that it isnt the grotty pictures that are most effective, but the stuff that highlights the emotional aspects of the disease.

Peace