Super Strains

[MindExpansion]

Lol bold move to post your phone number online.

Also man, if you've posted your location all over the place I don't think you can ask that people don't mention it, it's not exactly kept in top secrecy is it? And keep in mind that the first mention of your location in this post was actually by someone trying to help you with information specific to your location that may have kept you out of trouble, so either don't post your address and don't expect that sort of advice, or post it and don't tell people not to use it. I think that is only reasonable.

Peace,

Mind

[Teotzlcoatl]

Damn.

Edited November 14, 2008 by Teotz'

[mutant]

This thread is really naive... so far....

But please, someone list all the ALREADY known strains.... like Eillen, PsychoO etc, along with their technical characteristics.... appearance, species etc.

I only know a couple like PC pachanoi .... and also that eileen is a thick brisgesii, but not much else... I would love to know what popular clones are around

[reshroomED]

This thread is really naive... so far....

But please, someone list all the ALREADY known strains.... like Eillen, PsychoO etc, along with their technical characteristics.... appearance, species etc.

I only know a couple like PC pachanoi .... and also that eileen is a thick brisgesii, but not much else... I would love to know what popular clones are around

A quick search here will give you most info you're after re Aussie strains.

Funnily enough after reading:

Yes actually.... I want a super fast growing cold hardy trichocereus that likes high amounts of water (For Outdoor planting)

I offered to give Teotz an Eileen cutting but he apparently has all his bases covered Trichocereus-wise these days.

ed

[PD.]

Pretty much all the bridgesii i have inground here keep growing thru winter and all trichos in the ground will tolerate lots of watering or less watering than when in pots ime.

[reshroomED]

Unless you're forced to use pots, in-the-ground is definitely the way to go. I only really use pots for striking cuttings and acclimatising foreign trichs off-season and, if I was up your way PD, probably wouldn't even bother with the acclimatisation.

I'm not much of a fan of cactii-potting mixes either. I'm sure there's something decent available, but all I've tried were were far too moisture-retentive. Plus paying a premium prices for pre-mixed dirt is a bit of a rip-off to start with

ed

[PD.]

right on ED.

[Free Man]

Just my thoughts, I think!!.

Edited November 15, 2008 by Free Man

[Ace]

Haha, unless you want a warning from the mods Freeman, I'd probably edit that one ;)

[paradox]

pffft, freeman give him a break eh, this is a pretty old thread. he seems to be taking peoples advice on board lately.

[Free Man]

Yeah Yeah, But why won't he change, he knows his posts get annoying I tried to explain to him personally, and its why you raggin me,so you let him know why and he don't listen anyway He has been to just about every site I've been to. Its the same shit everywhere you go...Its Teotz with I will make super plants and shit like that..

[Micromegas]

Re: planting in the ground... can be a real headache if you have a major earwig epidemic and no rain for months. mositure retention is seriously not a problem for me

That being said, I had an eileen planted in a half wine barrel over winter that surprisingly had zero drainage, it sat in an inch of water (above soil level) for a month in August (last time it rained seriously) without batting an eyelid. Growing the fastest of all now due to water retention in spring/summer (soil still wet from that inundation).

But seriously, plants in the ground is not as great as it sounds in all cases especially if you want perfectly shaped and fast growing plants. I have neither, but I still love em

These problems (no water + clay + earwigs + cold spring nights = scarred and slow-growing cacti that display a sausage-like growth pattern) may be particularly bad in my area though. I'd still recommend putting in the ground though but root and grow in pots for a while as ed suggests (I'm too lazy though!).

Funny thing, in wetter areas with loam around here plants grow fat with little earwig damage, in hotter areas with sand (mallee country) fat with no earwig damage + fewer weeds. I'm in between, i get earwigs and clay and abundant weeds (wild oats) and slower growth

Re: super strains I'm not too fussed as using anything is illegal anyway so I go overseas where someone else is selecting the material legally. I collect plants because I like diversity. Psycho0 and eileen are some of the fastest growing, pretty and hardy variants around. Unfortunately, the earwigs eat everything just the same. Interesting really, potency (i.e. concentration of mescaline) is not indicated by selection of plants by earwigs, either as a deterrent or attractant.

Also, when I was in the amazon, certain strains of caapi were preferred over others, particularly those that were old and in pristine rainforest. Also, the character of the person who supplied the vine was taken into question. Thus, it was not 'potency' in the western sense being selected for but medicinal value and richness of spirit - different strains and 'colours' for different purposes. I think age has a lot ot do with potency/spirit/healing capabilities also the energetics of the environment they have been grown in, which you can view on a spiritual or biological level or both depending on your inclination. Also, P.carth... (sp.?) was considered more potent than viridis, d. cabrerana even more so.

I think what is important if you are planning to consume anything is to know your own plants or the plants you are using (where you are sourcing them from) so you can calibrate the experience depending on your goal. Experimentation will be required of course...

Still searching for potency (or as i like to think, medicinal value, which is different) seems like a reasonable inquiry to me, if conducted where legal.

Micro

[mutant]

nice comments micromegas and all, even though I am heavily inclined to plant in soil any plant of mine I want to take better care for.

[Qhorakuna tantani]

Oh my god, don't get me started on those asshole earwigs!!! Try putting a few small containers around the place burried so the rim is at the soil line, and filling them with oil. Olive oil seems to work the best, and maybe adding a lil bit of fish emulsion, they love anything fishy. They go swimming at night time, and in the morning you have a layer of dead earwigs in the bottom.

[Micromegas]

Thanks for the tip Qhorakuna but the situation is far beyond setting traps, I have tried. Aside from the 200+ cacti they are munching on every night which I have to attend nightly with a torch and a sharp knife they have taken a liking to all a vast majority of the 300+ natives I planted this season around the cacti. No way can a few traps solve that problem unfortunately. What I don't get is why they are so prevalent where I live. It's having a huge effect on the growth of my plants, esp. native seedlings, esp. the most important ones such as quandong and acuminata. They love the fresh tips of quandong. Earwigs are shaping the ecology of my garden. For example, an eargwig comes along and eats the tip of a quandong seedling that is 6 inches tall. So, the quandong grows a new growing tip from an axillary bud (i think) this boosts along for a few weeks and then chomp, gone in a single night. Repeat process. So, the effect is I end up with a slow growing plant that grows into a shrub with weaker branches in a VERY windy environment. Same with the cacti if i wasn't squashing them. It takes a lot of damage to destory the apical meristem of a san pedro, but they can do it for sure. In this case instead of one fat branch the branch grows 3,4 or even five pups since the meristem is destoryed. Result - a 'shrub-like' san pedro with a multitude of small thin arms. The other things they like are lemon and orange trees, a few species of acacia and definately anything in the passionfruit family as well as potatoes and occasional brugmansias. they have single handedly decimated any passionfruit i've tried to grow reducing them to sticks. What can one do about earwigs? Not much I think except wait for the onset of punishingly hot temperatures. Pyrethrum is not effective at all. However, on a 25 degree day I can catch hundreds munching on cacti; on a 35 degree day hardly any. Past Christmas their numbers decline and they stay away until the end of winter. But by then the soil is dry etc. etc. I hate the little fucjing bastards believe me I have nightmares about them and i'm worried about how happy I am to see their guts squirting out i never thought I would dislike another living thing so much besides really nasty people. Fucking european earwigs they are disgusting little blighters that is for sure the only interesting thing is gaining an appreciation of exactly how much invertebrates can affect an ecosystem and spending every night outside in the garden. rant over.

Micro

Edited November 16, 2008 by Micromegas

[mutant]

Wow, that sounds really like a pest.... bummer...

http://www.urbanext.uiuc.edu/bugreview/earwigs.html

This is the fucker you're talking about, huh? I hadn't seen this bug for years, and I saw in a couple days ago in my flowering leonotis, but that was quite higher and colder than my residence where keep my other plants. I thought it was lurking for other bugs, and maybe it was... because the Leonotis flowers was crowded with various bugs...

[Undergrounder]

I'm sure there's already a network of selected breeding of cacti around, it's probably easier for a community to grow out hundreds of crosses than it is a single person. The only sticking point is how to do the selecting... but i'm sure people already have that figured out as well.

Once you have your "goal" cactus, is it possible to have it cloned fairly cheaply or by "cloning" do people strictly mean cuts?

[Teotzlcoatl]

Teosinte compared with Corn (the green Teosinte is laying on top of the blue Corn)

Teosinte/Corn Link

Edited February 15, 2009 by Teotz'

[Micromegas]

Seriously amaizeing

[planthelper]

what happend to many plants because of selective breeding is truly amazing, but for my feeling, it's a bit wishfull thinking the same can be done with "our" beloved psychoactive plants.

a few plants which have been bred with the result of ending up with super strains are, cannabis, strawberry and let's say grape. and they all share something in common, namly distant ancestors!

it's those distant family members which helped to produce a big and tasty strawberry, in this case the taste came from europe and the size from america.

but not all plants, even if closly related can be bred with each other, and this is maybe your first obstical.

eileen for example qualifies as a good strain, because it's probably an offspring of two different strains of cacti (pachanoi and brigesii ?)

if you want to create a super viridis you would have to try and breed different psychotrias (an african with an south american) with each other, and than evaluate your findings.

fast transport or transport in general was a major tool in creating those super strains in the first place, because for the first time plants had sex with suitable partners from far far away.

breeding super cannabis, roses or tomatoes is helped as well by the fact that those plants reach maturety very fast and as such, the breeder does not have to wait too long for the results of his trials. but if you want to breed san pedros, this time to wait for seeds getting read increases from a few months to 15 years!

another thing is, that pretty much all cannabis super strains are in realety total crap strains if one considers to look into how they perform if those strains are used to produce seeds.

what i mean is that, topic of hybreed seeds vs (organic) stabilised seeds. a stabilised cannabis seed (or any seed's) offspring is always as good as it's mother, but none of the super strains are stabilised, thats at least my guess.

this is not much of a problem if you propagate this specific plant by vegatative means, but if it's a plant grown mostly by seed than it could be.

[Teotzlcoatl]

if you want to create a super viridis you would have to try and breed different psychotrias (an african with an south american) with each other, and than evaluate your findings.

No you could just breed the two best Psychotria viridises.

this is not much of a problem if you propagate this specific plant by vegatative means, but if it's a plant grown mostly by seed than it could be.

Limitations can be worked with. Each plant will provide it's own challenges!

Edited January 21, 2009 by Teotz'

[planthelper]

breeding your two best viridis plants, might work to a certain degree, but i personaly doubt this approach, because i found all viridis plants to be of the same potential potency. the only difference is that some people grow viridis in a fashion which doesn't help alkaloid production.

[Gunter]

Who has proof that choice clone lines of Caapi, Psychotria and Trichocereus, among others, do not exist and are not being cultivated?

Who can demonstrate proof that such things not only do not exist, but that they can not be the result of selection?

Perhaps what people want is a lack of choices for these and other species that are less that ideal.

What motivates a person to want to undertake such a project?

I suspect that everyone has thought of such a thing as this, if that is the case then why wouldn't cultivators of these plants thousands of years ago have a similar notion?

I suspect trichocereus can be grown from seed to flower, without grafting, in under a decade. Plants can, under ideal conditions, be quite large(2 meters) in six years from seed.

One "strain" of caapi was the subject of an attempted patent, while not cold hardy it was described as flowering readily in cultivation, containging more alkaloid(s) than average and showing some morphological distinctions. the patent was rejected. Some clone lines of caapi in cultivation are said to contain a rather high THH content.

It is known that some baby woodrose lines contain more alkaloid, this type of thing is known for species of Mimosa and other tryptamine containing plants in the same family as mimosa.

Because variation is found in the traits of seed populations selection may have played a greater role than deliberate cross breeding, and it may still yet.

[Teotzlcoatl]

Who has proof that choice clone lines of Caapi, Psychotria and Trichocereus, among others, do not exist and are not being cultivated?

I guess we just gotta find them and make them known and then propagate them.

Because variation is found in the traits of seed populations selection may have played a greater role than deliberate cross breeding, and it may still yet.

I agree, I think selection of the best plants is what we should focus on now...

[mutant]

What motivates a person to want to undertake such a project?

Grandiose type delusions???