Brugmansia Beauties

[Inyan]

http://www.engelstrompeten.de/wupperstolz.htm

Beauty is clearly in the eye of the beholder. Sure, different variegated specimens are going to be more important for breeding purposes and others are going to be more important for esthetics. The above is one of my favorite double pink variegates. Due to the type of variegation though, I doubt very seriously that this one would be good as a mom as she would most likely throw out albino babies.

[Garbage]

Yellow margin is good on a dark leaf,the troop i mentioned were real bargain basement.

Someone clearly went to some trouble to grow them but even the 'Garden Club' were not buying.

A perculiar arrangement whereby visitors could wander around and spy a plant seldom offered and would then feel compelled by themselves or their loved ones to plonk down two to three times the cost of their purchase in membership before grabbing a load more stuff to spread the cost between the plants.

The locals get a good deal as more interesting plants are available but the tourist walks of with the plant that was wanted plus a membership never to be used again and a load of bedding plants available cheaper elsewhere.

They were boasting the biggest retiail sales area under glass in Europe so it must work for them as a business plan.

[blip]

.

Edited April 6, 2010 by lsdreamz

[kadakuda]

that variegated had me hard for a good hour! i hate to think how expensive that sucker would be! sweet jesus, i really hope i dont get into these now.

[Inyan]

I love variegated plants/cacti myself Kada. I used to have a fine collection several moves ago. Now, I have a very limited number of variegated Brugmasia. I'm pretty sure the one you mentioned liking though can be had still though. Still, I love my plain old double orange the most as she's a blooming mad women who grows much faster than most of the single flowered Brugmansia I have. With the exception perhaps of one or two of my pure aurea species plants. Yeah, its easy to fall in love with Brugmansia, but its not the color or the foliage that most attracts me to Brugmansia.... its that heavenly fragrance. Sadly, many hybrids are being hybridized for color with no regard for this fragrance.

[WoodDragon]

Yeah, its easy to fall in love with Brugmansia, but its not the color or the foliage that most attracts me to Brugmansia.... its that heavenly fragrance. Sadly, many hybrids are being hybridized for color with no regard for this fragrance.

Living at the arse-end of the planet (not in itself a Bad Thing) I don't have easy access to more than 2 or three varieties of brug, and I often find myself wistfully reading of others' collections and wondering what I might best expend my energies in trying to acquire.

Has anyone collated the various qualities of the genus into tabular form, with columns for the different species/cultivars, and rows describing/quantfiying: colour, fragrance, temperature requirements, etc?

Given my location, and the difficulty of importing exotic species, I will never have the opportunity of acquiring more than a lmited number of extra brugs, and such a table would really help to decide where I might best focus my obsession!

[Inyan]

http://www.abads.net/brugidchart.htm

Informative chart for you.

http://www.abads.net/Gallery/species/brugmansia-species.htm

http://www.abads.net/Gallery/

http://www.abads.org/abads/Registry/namelist/

Lists hybrids, who hybridized them, what species were involved, etc....

Brugmansia and Datura Angel's Trumpets and Thorn Apples by Ulkrike and Hans-Georg Preissel... one of the best books I've seen on Brugmansia.

http://www.alibris.co.uk/search/books/qwor...0Thorn%20Apples

I personally have the above book and a few others on Brugmansia. You can't beat the one above and it is available in multiple languages if English is not your native tongue. If you desire particular properties in a Brugmansia then let me know and I can point you in the right direction. I've grown quite a few different Brugmansia and I have my favorites for ease of flowering, seed production, beauty, fragrance, etc.

Edited January 1, 2009 by Inyan

[mutant]

Inyan, you said you are attracted by the fragrance...

Do all brugs smell at night - or ar there any day smelling ones? Do you or someone you know find the aroma psychoactive? Has it ever annoyed you? There are reports of headaches if the aroma is intense, in big gardens.

I got a story for Swim, who certainly believes the aroma is some what psychoactive, through mj catalysation.. The effect on mj high, was not anything too overwhelming , but definately felt and definately different than mj - the guy is pretty experienced and a regular with mj and couldn't help but wonder what had happened, and just thought that the mj had had him higher than normal... Later on, when the brug aroma was considered as cause of the 20 min 'trip', he did some more experimentation and found out that he felt very different when he was within the aroma range of the yello insignis as opposed to when he was not... It could be explained as a placebo, but I don't really believe it. Swim also believes his sense of smell is quite keen. By the way, when that thing happened, the smell was apparent and strong for over 15 mins and he was sitting right next to a plant with 6 or so fresh flowers before anything started happening. Moreover, for over 2 or 3 hours he stayed there, he found the presence of the aroma after a while quite unwanted and he tried to stay off its range, even thought to cut the flowers! The following day, much the same thing happened, but with some alcohol inebriation added in the mix. The high supposedly was even more stimulating than previous night's.

Swim claims to have repeated testing on this, but never so intense as that first time.

Any comments would be welcome

Edited January 2, 2009 by mutant

[t st tantra]

i think its also possible to accidentally snort pollen when smelling flowers,resulting in a stronger effect!

t s t .

[Inyan]

This is the safest way to handle Brugmansia. Just be sure to wash your hands before you rub your eyes if the seeds are fresh. Next, plant them in the ground and enjoy the flowers. This is one sacrament that is best left to those who simply enjoy the fragrance of a nice flower unless of course you have a death wish.

[planthelper]

This is the safest way to handle Brugmansia. Just be sure to wash your hands before you rub your eyes if the seeds are fresh. Next, plant them in the ground and enjoy the flowers. This is one sacrament that is best left to those who simply enjoy the fragrance of a nice flower unless of course you have a death wish.

you say, next plant them into the ground....

but i have my reservations regarding sowing seeds with a wet pericarp!

fresh wet seeds, taken out of the fruits and planted right away (as your post makes me believe) often will fail to germinate because of rot/ fungal infections

the best way according to my own experiances is to wait till the brugmansia fruit is mature (getting soft and color change to yellow) than to remove the seeds and let them dry out for a while.

than plant them out as they are, or if you want to help the seedling (but not necessary), remove the (dry!!) pericarp or seed coat before sowing.

it's easier to remove the skin if the seeds are fresh as it is still soft, but if you do it this way, dry you seeds proper before sowing. the downside of seeds without skin is that they will loose there viabilety much faster....

Edited January 4, 2009 by planthelper

[kadakuda]

do the seeds store well dried?

[planthelper]

do the seeds store well dried?

some of mine were still good after two years, stored at room temperature.

if stored in the fridge probably much longer.

[mutant]

i think its also possible to accidentally snort pollen when smelling flowers,resulting in a stronger effect!

well yes, but swim didn't not put his nose in the flower... the fragnance was all over in the air... ?

[Inyan]

Brugmansia sanguinea pods... will actually have the seeds germinate inside the pod and the pod will not turn to mush or turn yellow to indicate that the seeds are actively germinating inside the pod itself. So, if you don't time your pick just right you will have many seeds sprouting inside your nice hard green pod! So, with this particular species... plant them right away and keep them moist. Can you let them dry out as well? Yep, but the fresher the better with sanguinea. The picture of the pod... Brugmansia sanguinea.... didn't realize I forgot to post that. Thanks.

That seed, a Brugmansia sanguinea seed, was germinating in the pod. Picked just in the nick of time. Any longer and all of my seed would be germinating.

Now, if your talking about yellow soft pods from Brugmansia aurea, suaveolens, versicolor, insignis, or candida... yes, this is the best time to pick your seeds with these varieties provided your keeping an eye out for bugs that like to infest at this stage and bore into the seeds themselves. Plant those seeds and none may sprout even though it looks like you have nice healthy seeds on the outside. You can however pick the above species while the pods are still green and hard as well though and plant those seeds. Dry seeds can store for a good bit, but the older they get the fewer seeds will germinate and germination often becomes irregular with increasing age in seed with these species. If you have something that works for you, stick with it.

Edited January 5, 2009 by Inyan

[t st tantra]

sanguinea pods rattle when the seeds are ready.......if you shake them.

t s t .

[planthelper]

just because some seeds germinated at your place whilst still in the fruit, it would be wrong to assume that that is the best way. nature certainly never intended those seeds to start germing inside an inmature fruit, because they would all be doomed. it's 25 years since i saw a sanquinea fruit, but that was in ther native habitat and certainly like with other brugs the fruit get's soft than dries up, breaks open and than relased it's dried seeds.

i think faintly to remeber that fully mature sanquinea fruits are changing there color to red, but i could be wrong.

[Inyan]

Brugmansia and Datura: Angels Trumpets and Thorn Apples by Ulrike and Hans-George Preissel Page 78

"B. sanguinea, B. vulcanicola and their hybrids, you should note the time of pollination on a label and attach this to the flower stalk. Harvest time for the ripe seed will be eight months later.... Brugmansia seed can either be sown fresh or dried." page 78

Page 77

"The fruits of Brugmansia sanguinea and B. vulcanicola need the longest time to ripen. They take up to eight months. In contrast to the other species, you cannot tell whether or not they are ripe from the outside, as their fruit casing remains green and does not dry out. Many a grower has not realized this and, with the best of intentions, left the fruit too long on the plant. After about nine months the seeds will begin to germinate. If they are still in the closed fruit they will die."

I know all of this from first hand experience as I have been growing and hybridizing Brugmansia for over a decade..., but I have books on the subject as well as there is no other plant that holds my attention like the Brugmansia does and a few of those books are signed by their authors. I'm a true brugmansia nut.

Edited January 6, 2009 by Inyan

[planthelper]

thanks for all this info, you certainly know brugs very well inyan!

[Inyan]

thanks for all this info, you certainly know brugs very well inyan!

Planthelper,

As you are my my neighbor, I do have a few Brugmansia that have not been released yet. If you'd like one or two, I have two that I'd be willing to share with you. Both are pure aurea species and disease free.

[planthelper]

Planthelper,

As you are my my neighbor, I do have a few Brugmansia that have not been released yet. If you'd like one or two, I have two that I'd be willing to share with you. Both are pure aurea species and disease free.

oh, what a lovely offer, and i hope to be able to take you up on it one day.

but the thing is that i go back to oz for a while soon and my better halve here in england doesn't have a green thumb (not yet anyway) and the flat is very small.

i used to take cuttings of every brugmansia i came across in my life and had at times many of them, but the older i got, i found them, a bit bothersome, taking a lot of space, and a lot of water and nute's and big pot's.

i have only one brug right now and it's a sanquinea which has to overwinter outdoors in sussex.

i got a question for you, you might can shed some light to...

but again, forgive my memory in case it did let me down again.

all the sanquineas i saw in europe and australia, have leaves with some type of velvet like appereance, same goes for the surface of the stems to a certain degree.

but a sanquinea i grew in austria once from seed collected in banjos ecuador, had to my memory no velvet appereance and aswell a bit biggere flowers. my wishfull thinking was always that it might have been a sup species which is rara in europe...

any ideas?

[Inyan]

B. aurea and B. arborea pure species tend to have the most velvet. Next in line, would by hybrids that have a mixture of these two.. B. candida, B. flava, etc.

B. candida = B. aurea x B. versiocolor

B. flava = B. arborea x B. sanguinea

B. sanguinea in particular suffers from temperatures above 22 degrees celcius or 72 degrees F. and you will find that your flowers are far and few between if the temperatures exceed that range. B. flava tends to be more heat tolerant as do some B. arborea which have been known to survive and flower in more tropical climates like Florida for instance.

I understand your problem... my suggestion: Grafting your Brugmansia onto your sanguinea to increase your supply while still maintaining a small collection of one or two pots. I may have a sanguinea grafted to an arborea grafted to a double orange down stairs.... I may also have a few other specimens grafted to other specimens and the like.... Lol, have fun on your travels.

[Inyan]

P. 33 of Brugmansia and Datura by Ulrike and Hans-George Preissel

Posted as I have some who wish to know a bit more...

"Various Indian varieties and how they are used medicinally by the Indians

'Amaron' (1) Widespread; its leaves were used to treat sepsis and to alleviate rheumatic pains.

'Biangan' (2) Indian name for the varieties of B. x candida that were widespread. Leaves and flowers were pounded and mixed with the feed given to hunting dogs before the start of a hunt so that they would be better able to scent game.

'Buyes' (3" Indian name for the wild specis of B. aurea. Its leaves were pounded to powder and used to alleviate rheumatic pains.

'Munchira' (4) Rare, its tiny, highly poisonous leaves were used to treat rheumatic pains, infestations of worms and as an emetic. It was also used to treat erysipelas (a streptococcal infection).

'Quinde' (5) Best known of all the commercially used varieties. An infusion prepared from its leaves was used both against rheumatic pains and to treat infestations of worms. The leaves were applied to treat sepsis. Leaves, and sometimes flowers as well, were used for their hallucinogenic properties.

'Salaman' (6) The rarest variety, only known from one habitat. Its owner used the leaves along with those of 'Quinde' and 'Culebra' to produce an infusion to bathe limbs and joints that were affected by rheumatism.

'Culebra' (7) Previous varieties have been relatively easy to identify as Brugmansia, but in 1942 a plant was discovered in the Sibundoy Valley that apparently could not be classified in this genus.

Its nodding to pendulous flowers, which were greenish white and 6-9 1/2 in (15-24 cm) long, were so deeply slit between the peaks on the edge (three- to four-fifths of the whole length) that they gave the impression of five individual flower petals. The gleaming calyx had almost no hairs and lay tightly around the flower corolla. Only the three to four "teeth" that were produced by teh slit at the mouth seemed to be inflated....the pistil was made up of several individual styles. This distinct pistil was not found in any other Brugmansia.... the mane given to the variety is 'Culebra', which is the translation of the description "mutscuai borrachero" used by the Kamsa Indian. The most literal translation would be "plant of the snake that intoxicates or makes drunk". The term "snake" probably refers to the long, narrow leaf shape of this Brugmansia.

In earlier times, because the properties of this plant caused such a major change in consciousness, it was used for prophecy and for learning magical arts. Novices could only be initiated into the secrets of the cult during a state of intoxication. Even today, the Indians prepare an infusion from the leaves to relieve rheumatic pains." end of quote page 34.

Page 16

"There were strict rules about the use of Angel's Trumpets-- they were never abused an an intoxicant.... Normally the aim and purpose of the Brugmansia-induced state was to make contact with the gods or spirits of their ancestors.... One reason why Brugmansia was not used a great deal as a hallucinogen was because of the extremely unpleasant effects of these plants. Those who had been affected by it told of terrifying visions of snakes and wild animals, of being extremely frightened and of after-effects that made them ill. For this reason the person who was intoxicated was always watched over by a "guard" who, if necessary, had to protect him from his own uncontrollable outbreaks of anger..... I once had the opportunity of watching how it affected an Indian who wanted to communicate with the spirits of his ancestors. The ghastly scene is so impregnated in my memory that I will never forget it. Soon after drinking Tonga, the man fell into a dull brooding, he stared vacantly at the ground, his mouth was closed firmly, almost convulsively and his nostrils were flared. Cold sweat covered his forehead. He was deathly pale. The jugular veins on his throat were swollen as large as a finger and he was wheezing as his chest rose and sank slowly. His arms hung down stiffly by his body. Then his eyes misted over and filled with huge tears and is lips twitched convulsively for a brief moment. His carotids were visibly beating, is respiration increased and his extremities twitched and shuddered of their own accord.

This condition would have lasted about a quarter of an hour, then all these actions increased in intensity. His eyes were now dry but had become bright red and rolled about wildly in their sockets and all his facial muscles were horribly distorted. A thick white foam leaked out between his half opened lips. The pulses on his forehead and throat wer bating too fast to be counted. His breathing was short, extraordinarily fast and did not seem to lift the chest, which was visibly fibrillating. A mass of sticky sweat covered his whole body which continued to be shaken by the most dreadful convulsions. His limbs were hideously contorted. He alternated between murmuring quietly and incomprehensibly and uttering loud, heart-rending shrieks, howling duly and moaning and groaning. This dreadful condition lasted for a long time until gradually the strength of the symptoms abated and peace was restored. Immediately the women hurried over, washed him all over with cold water and made him comfortable on some sheepskins. He then slept for several hours. In the evening I saw the man again when, surrounded by a circle of attentive listeners, he was relating his visions and his talks with the spirits of his ancestors. He seemed to be very tired. His eyes were glassy, his body was limp and his movements were lethargic."' end quote page 17.

Personally, I love the aurea the most. Culebra is a very beautiful Brugmansia to have in your collection as well. Quinde is a particularly hard find. Gommer and perhaps a few others are the only ones to have that one to my knowledge as it is extremely hard to root.

[mutant]

Very interesting stuff!

Culebra is a very beautiful Brugmansia to have in your collection as well. Quinde is a particularly hard find. Gommer and perhaps a few others are the only ones to have that one to my knowledge as it is extremely hard to root.

a brugmansia which is hard to root???!??!??!

Inyan, have you ever been interested in other tropane plants like hyoscyamus or mandrake?

[Inyan]

I find beauty in all plants mutant and thus I'm interested in all plants. I like diversity as well and I've been guilty of suffering from quantity of one or two types or categories of plants as while I love them all, I have a hard time not increasing my collections in those that I love the most. I used to grow mandrake along with many others. My collections are gifted away each time I move though and I tend to move around more than the usual.

Brugmansia can be very hard to root when they are virus prone... Rothkirch a wild Brugmansia aurea is one that you will find this problem with. B. sanguinea, B. vulcanicola, and hybrids thereof are best air layered in my opinion, but you can root them as well from cuttings. The easiest to root are healthy aurea, suavelolens, candida, aurea x suaveolens, insignis, and versicolor in about that order.

Hope this information helps. I'll pull out some medicinal recipes in my books when I get some time. I find many are more afraid of these plants than they should be and others are just the opposite.