Brugmansia Beauties

[Inyan]

Here is a little splash of color for you. I like orange myself. You can see that one of these is a double orange, the other a small piece of a pure orange aurea, and a nice red. All nice ones to breed with. If you want whites though, you can cross any pink to an orange and get your fill of whites. I like fragrant whites myself. The kind that fill up the yard with their perfume.

[kadakuda]

very pretty!

so how do they work? are white recessive or what?

[Inyan]

It works like this: Yellow x Pink = mostly whites

Orange x Pink = mostly whites

Orange x Orange = mostly oranges

White x any color = mostly whites

The bottom line, if you want a particular color you cross the same color to the same color. You will get many that are lighter shades of color and a few rare ones that are darker in color. Still, to make things more confusing you can cross a white x white and still get one in color if you are lucky.

You can cross an orange to a pink and get very lucky and have a blending of colors. Don't count on that though unless you're prepared to grow out a few hundred or more of a single cross. Some hybrids hide another color that will show up if the temperatures are just right. Janet Reno is an old hybrid like that. She is yellow, but will occasionally throw out blooms with pink lips. If you want to cross two different colors and have a good chance of getting one in color you have to look at the parentage of those two and see if they have a different color in their back ground. If they do, then this is still no guarantee. If you have a flower that clearly shows a mixture of colors, even if this is only rarely seen, those are your best bet for a nice orange x pink to produce a color that you might like and this is where you get a few that appear to be rich blends of mango, etc. As far as I can tell, there are multiple genes for color and they are quantitative in nature which is why you have some such as Super Spot and others that appear to be red from time to time. For the average person, cross a double white to a single in any color and hope to get a single in color in a few hundred seedlings. Know you will get several doubles, but the money is on you getting white doubles. It is far better to start out with a double in color otherwise you will be back crossing your seedlings. Of particular note though, if you have two single's in color from a double white you can cross those two single colored specimens and get a few doubles as long as both seedlings parents are doubles.

[Garbage]

Doubles are not always desireable,i had the pleasue of inspecting one that had the appearance and texture and colour of a rolled slice of luncheon meat.

[Inyan]

While I don't think I could ever describe a Brugmansia flower as you have....

I will admit that many doubles that fail to open fully or have a good separation in the skirts will brown prematurely and this to me is not desirable no matter how beautiful the flowers are when they first open. Fragrance is another trait that often goes by the way side when hybridizing for doubles in color. I prefer single aurea or aurea x suaveolens types myself as the fragrance and speed of growth is generally more desirable to me.

[Garbage]

It was ghastly,an e-bay special.

Each to their own though,my old Dad thought it bloomin' marvelous.

I just did a repot and a prune of my specimen in an east facing bedroom window,trying for a more manageable size by encouraging back budding and ramification.

It's a gradual process where i forgo the flowers for a while and try to limit weak winter growth in an effort to get it back behind the curtain where it belongs.

What i take to be 'Roter Vulkan'is flowering in the greenhouse,very small it is.

Culebra was left out in the falling temperatures to force leaf drop and hopefully kill off a few mites,brought back into the greenhouse for it's winter kip.

It may live as small green leaves can be seen clustering about the base.

I will repot soon and investigate for signs of insect life,specifically vine weevil as an Echeveria i repotted earlier was infested and needed most of it's trunk removed as it was filled with disgusting larvae.

[Inyan]

Simply bring in your Brugmansia Culebra and it will drop its leaves. If your in a hurry to make it drop its leaves bring it inside and place it in the closet or the basement providing you don't have a light source... you should have a nice dormant Brugmansia devoid of leaves in no time. Keeping your Culebra outside in falling temperatures is a good way to lose her, but she is an old cultivar and readily available in many places so not to big of a loss. Albeit, she is one of my favorites, even if she is a bit difficult for some. Roter Vulkan is a very nice hybrid as well and one of my favorite oldies. Roter Vulkan prefers to grow in a fast drying soil from my experience and while she can be pushed in the summer if temperatures are high and fertilizer corresponds, it is best to let her grow a bit slower than your other Brugmansia.

[Garbage]

I already got a new pot for the Roter,i used a painted terracota pot until now with good results so a slightly bigger glazed ceramic will probably be okay.

The soil mixture i made utilized hydroleca and my new soil mixture will incorpoarate a drainage layer of lava lumps and hydroleca,i found that a gravel layer would simply hold foul water.

The wonderful Cat litter as used by Bonsai and Cacti enthusiasts will also be used,the larger sized Sophisticat Pink,no more sharp sand for me.

Another thing i use now is Bonsai pot mesh to prevent blockage of the drainage hole by the drainage substrate,typically wire is not needed to keep it in place.

Much better than a broken crock.

In the past i have rarely bothered using different materials for potting Brugmansia,merely using generic potting compost straight from the bag.

Now i think i will take a bit more care as root structure and possibly function can be improved by aerators.

my Desfontainia is next up for repotting,it needs something doing as it grew very slowly with very few flowers even with an ericacious compost.

[kadakuda]

very interesting. one question. do brugs like a cold period to flower? mine dont flower at my house. they originally came form high mountain areas (that see freezing temps annually) but here it is tropical (never below 5C, and that is rare). but down the street there are other hybrids that flower readily.

[Inyan]

KadaKuda, which species do you have? Cold tends to make your flowers deformed, but a certain amount of cold or colder temperatures are better for seed production. Also, how old is your plant? Not enough water and not enough fertilizer can both pose problems to flowering as can too much heat. If your Brugmansia is drooping during the heat of the day I'd say move it into a more shaded area. I've grown Brugmansia and seen Brugmansia grown in Florida... all parts and unless your trying to grow sanguinea, arborea, flava, vulcanicola, you should have no problems. In other words, stick to growing versicolor, insignis, aurea, suaveolens, and hybrids thereof in your area. You should have much luck with those. The others, may not do so well for you as they tend to melt at higher temperatures and don't come back. An exception of course is arborea of which there are a few cultivars that can withstand heat. Sorry this is so short, but I must tend to other matters. I've also grown all species of Brugmansia in colder area's of Europe with no problem. Still, seed production is better when its a bit cooler with all species. If your growing Brugmansia from seed, it can take anywhere from a few months to a few years till you see any flowers.

Edited December 26, 2008 by Inyan

[kadakuda]

cool thanks. the plants i have are from the photos i posted above (and you saw in pm). they grow in my compost bin. very nutritious rich soil, always watered, never droops. they are shaded a bit for half the day, but the temps here are hot (hotter than florida for the most part)

thanks

peace

[Inyan]

Next question, did you take cuttings from the flowering region or from an area with no flowers? If the latter is the case, you can expect a long wait for flowers. The good news is that you have the right hybrids for your area and you should have seed pods as well as flower in due time. Just remember, these are not self fertile. You might want to revisit the first set of plants and collect those seed pods as well if you want a bit more diversity in your plants. Just expect most if not all of them to be white given the colors of both plants. For this reason, I would grow no more than 13 for genetics or 2-3 seed pods if your heart is set on getting another one in color from these particular genetics. I have a few grafted specimens I could share with you though that would help you on your way faster. One of my old hybrids grafted to its mom, both are pink, but the species influx is such that one is a candida x aurea shape and the other is a very clear aurea x suaveolens shape. Personally, I'd cross them both to a pink aurea like Kaitlyn for more interesting pinks.

[Torsten]

they grow in my compost bin. very nutritious rich soil

I think there might be your answer. Extreme high nitrogen can cause some plants to not flower. Surprising for Brugs, but maybe possible.

[kadakuda]

hmmm, i cant remember if my plants were from the large trees or if i pulled up some small shoots....maybe its age, i don't know.

torsten, i wonder. all the ones flowering around me are growing in very "wild/normal" soil. never fertilized or manicured, just left to grow as is.

now i am wondering about my plants lol....age or nutes....??? guess i will just wait them out. and take a few cuttings and place other places in the garden. currently breeding colour is not my focus...but i do see this genus become quite addictive, no doubt! hmmm, million thoughts, little sense to any of them lol.

[Inyan]

Brugmansia as a general rule love a well aerated soil. Too compact and they don't grow very fast. Still, if you have a cutting from mature wood you should expect to see flowers as soon as you see the first fork. Still, sometimes your plant will abort the first set of flowers on that first fork and you will have to wait one more cycle. If you pulled up a sucker from the ground you may have actually pulled up a seedling. If you grow your Brugmansia properly and you realize that the particular genetics you are working with grow extremely fast under the right conditions you should have blooms in less than 10 months whether this is a seedling, cutting from immature wood, or wood from a flowering region as you don't experience a freeze which would necessitate you cutting your plants back, having them die back, etc. A 10 month old seedling from this genetic stock should be 5-12 feet tall at the very least if grown properly. Can we get a picture of your plants? A close up picture of the top uppermost leaves would tell us the most. The leaves will become lopsided just before the flowers start to form.

[kadakuda]

and now i realize my stupidity. i have been training them to grow up, so i have been pruning the offsets (stupid!)....homer yelling DOH! is bouncing around in my head. i am trying to get it to canopy over that area and cause shade for the compost (and a cool tree).

here are some pics of one group of my brugmansia in my experimental garden. they are super loose. mostly coco and wood/fungus with lots of worm poo etc.

pics.

[Inyan]

Pruning the offsets is fine, its the top that you don't want to prune. Give me a picture of the smallest leaf at the top and I'll tell you if its going to bloom anytime soon. The picture at the top looks like it might be close, but I can't make out enough detail in the leaf. Your plants look fairly young by the way so you shouldn't be too discouraged at this stage of the game. Trust me, you will have seeds if you have two different Brugmansia and take the time to cross pollinate them.

[Garbage]

Is it always quite as dark as the pictures suggest?

If so the corrugated fence could be painted white for a few more lux.

[kadakuda]

no its not dark like that, that was just high shutter speed on the camera and my being lazy lol.

the top of the main plant is forking, like a Y. i am fairly confident they are not clones as they are from all around the country, some from quite remote locations

its night so i cant get any new shots. here are some crappy out of focus ones to get by until i get new ones during the day.

[Garbage]

Certainly looks like a flowering region has formed.

Will they dry up and fall off?

You will have to wait and see.

[Inyan]

Looks like your well on your way to flowers. You should be able to see the flower buds starting by now. If your camera is a good one, you should be able to take pictures of them as well if you can keep from shaking. As Garbage is inferring, you may loose the first set of blooms as this is not uncommon.

[Garbage]

Is it worth mentioning cuttings from the flowering region flower faster and will remain of the flowering region whilst cuttings from the vegetative region will have to pass through the vegetative state,form a V,and then flower.

Seedlings have to vegetate awhile before forming a flowering region above the V although later may form shoots occuring on the stem before the primary V that will form their own V and flowering region.

If you have frost or simply cut back below these V's your plant must again vegetate awhile,this vegetative stage will be shorter if your plant is a cutting from the flowering region.

Enough mumbo jumbo for now.

[mutant]

Very interesting, brugs were my frist plants, my teachers into horticulture if you like... Hadn't noticed this formation you seemed to notice at once, but now that you pointed this out... ;)

Enough mumbo jumbo for now.

[Inyan]

Right on Garbage. I see you know a good bit about Brugmansia. The flowering region should never be cut back so as to remove that first fork that forms as this will increase the time drastically till you get that next set of flowers. Still, you won't have to wait as long as you would for that same rooted specimen to flower as you would have to wait for a seedling to flower. Personally, I like cuttings from the non-flowering region as they tend to grow faster and taller. However, you can get a portion from the flowering region to grow just as fast and to revert to its nonflowering state by laying cuttings from the flowering region down in log type fashion. Simply cover these logs leaving a few nodes exposed and these cuttings will revert to their immature state growing much more vigorously and much taller than your normal cuttings taken from above the flowering region. However, if you want a bush rather than a tree form... those cuts above the Y or fork are best. Man, I think I've just rehashed everything you've said Garbage. Forgive me, I haven't had much sleep. Your posts are much appreciated Garbage and its nice to see another who is so knowledgeable when it comes to Brugmansia. Keep that mumbo jumbo coming Garbage. Its well appreciated I am sure. Nice to have you as a neighbor Garbage. I'll be seriously reducing my Brugmansia garden and getting rid of some as yet unreleased Brugmansia aurea in the not to distant future. If your still hold an interest then, I'll gladly let you have a few.

[Garbage]

I think i saw some of those logs raised as 'Standards' earlier this year,about 30 of them 6ft tall variegated folliage and sickly looking yellow flowers,no one was rushing to buy those awful specimens.

Why retailers choose ugly plants to sell i will never know.