the Logos

[Aya]

I too have had these experiences.

From the way that "Logos" is being described in this thread, and from my own experiences that sound much like puck's and ajna's, it seems to me that what we have all experienced and what some people are calling the logos is a kind of Pure Expression. Which expresses itself through one of the communication mediums that we as humans posses.

Also much like what was being said about channeling, if we somehow manage to channel the Logos (Pure Expression to my mind), or the Logos chooses us a medium, it would have to use us as a tool, hence why the experience of Pure Expression with ajna is a very musical one, due to his ability and affinity with music. So even though the logos is seperate from us, it has to use us to be experienced and felt. Kind of one doesn't exist without the other, yet both are independant. Like most things really....

Or perhaps the logos, isn't a seperate thing at all, just a state that we can reach yet can't maintain at all times. Kind of like a leopard reaching top speed yet can only hold for a few minutes due to the exertion involved in reaching that level. Or like a rubix cube that is on the verge of being alligned and sorted, and once it has, the only thing left to do is to jumble it up again so it can be sorted once more.

It seems for there to be clarity, there needs to be something to clarify, which is why confusion is an essential part of the cycle.

Great thread peoples.

[t st tantra]

is the logos the alien a friend and i talked with?.......not much remembered, 2nd part was about how to incorporate the alien into our dna so it would no longer be alien.

is the logos god,the first artificial intelligence?

the inability of words to describe things like spiritual experiences leads me to dismiss any idea of the logos as language etc.

t s t .

[ThunderIdeal]

that last sentence made me laugh tantra, and great post aya.

[Guest Øskorei]

{in ref: to Vert -} if your post was any longer, I would not have bothered reading it... like the rest of your posts.

Oh that's funny. Are you readily admitting to having a short attention span ? Vert possesses a unique freestyle example of articulate, yet unconventional literary skills that always addresses issues and provokes some colour towards same, whilst remaining cool under pressure. Never has there been a true 'everyman' in alternative culture since Kerouac's warm prose.

ya know, if you read into V's stuff a bit more, you'de have a lot more to bitch about. See, it can serve you !

[chilli]

Sometimes it seems to me like all these astounding revelations lead to nothing but a contradictory and confusing babble of voices and opinions... I mean, if we are channeling the logos or the creative force of the universe or whatever, and not just tripping out as our neurons bust out some crazy breakdancing moves and shit, wouldn't it be, I don't know, a bit... better?

[ThunderIdeal]

what would make it better?

[chilli]

what would make it better?

I don't know, perhaps shooting lasers out of our eyes or XipeTotec becoming Prime Minister... nah, but I just mean doesn't it all seem a bit mundane? Like, we can expect certain impressions when we have certain chemicals in our brain, so why attribute the effect to the impressions we have whilst thus influenced, instead of just the chemicals?

I'm not explaining this well, and I know I sound like some kind of crazy materialist with a fetish for Occam's razor again, but it's not really like that... I'll have a think about how best to articulate this disturbing idea I have had for a while now, and write again later.

[chilli]

...like a rubix cube that is on the verge of being alligned and sorted, and once it has, the only thing left to do is to jumble it up again so it can be sorted once more.

That is cool, did you channel that, because if you did then that is kind of what I mean by better... not just self-aggrandizing, back-slapping, bullshit-artist parties.

Ha, I probably just alienated everyone on this thread with that last joking comment, but I can't help it because it's not my fault... my Mum took me off the boob a bit too early.

[Aya]

Ha, I probably just alienated everyone on this thread with that last joking comment, but I can't help it because it's not my fault... my Mum took me off the boob a bit too early.

Hahaha... made me laugh.

But back to the thread....

Sometimes it seems to me like all these astounding revelations lead to nothing but a contradictory and confusing babble of voices and opinions... I mean, if we are channeling the logos or the creative force of the universe or whatever, and not just tripping out as our neurons bust out some crazy breakdancing moves and shit, wouldn't it be, I don't know, a bit... better?

When you say better, do you mean the world would be a better place if we were experiencing the logos? Or while on an entheogen the experience of pure expression should be better then just a moment of clarity?

That is cool, did you channel that, because if you did then that is kind of what I mean by better... not just self-aggrandizing, back-slapping, bullshit-artist parties.

After reading that, i'm guessing what you mean by better, is that if we were having these experiences, whether channeling something distinct from us or reaching a higher level that's attainable to us. Instead of getting caught up in the crazy out there notions, theories and entity channeling hoohaa, why dont we then use and discuss that knowledge in a practical way instead of getting caught up in the superficialities. For it's the message that is important, not the bearer.

Is that kind of where your coming from? Or is my impression way off?

...not just self-aggrandizing, back-slapping, bullshit-artist parties.

Sounds like you've had a few experiences with superficial, arrogant, self masturbation types who focus all there attention during the experience on how it can make them look cool instead of focusing there energy on what's to be learnt from the actual experience.

[ThunderIdeal]

if we're talking about the betterment of humankind... i don't think for a second that humankind isn't better off for spiritual philosophy. not everyone will agree, although anybody would agree that we could have been much worse off by now.

[t st tantra]

that last sentence made me laugh tantra, and great post aya.

sorry dont understand,explain if u want?

t s t .

[Aya]

if we're talking about the betterment of humankind... i don't think for a second that humankind isn't better off for spiritual philosophy.

Would have to agree. Philosophy/discussion brings thought, thought ideas, and ideas creation. And creations stemming from a spiritual foundation, i'd say would be a pretty edifying and positive thing.

You only need to look at the works of Marc Chagall, William Blake, Pablo Amaringo, Federico Garcia Lorca, Alex Grey, Alan Watts etc etc. To see the positive effects they've left, and are leaving behind.

[puck]

Like, we can expect certain impressions when we have certain chemicals in our brain, so why attribute the effect to the impressions we have whilst thus influenced, instead of just the chemicals?

No, you don't sound too much like OneMind; don't stress.

My thinking to this is there are levels. Yeah, on one level, we're just trippers tripping weird trippy stuff. No biggie.

On another level, the state of one's biochemistry may enable the experience of all sorts of different phenomena. Try experiencing the rush of falling in love, without the production of dopamine. Any luck? Does that mean that falling in love is just the product of endogenous dopamine release? Does it mean that endogenous dopamine release is the product of falling in love? Or are the two both aspects of the one thing? A question to be pondered...

I don't think any spiritual experience can be divorced from biochemistry. Doesn't negate the genuine nature of it. Hell, I can't think of a more obvious spirituality than years of deep meditation, and that certainly changes neurochemistry!

I mean, if we are channeling the logos or the creative force of the universe or whatever, and not just tripping out as our neurons bust out some crazy breakdancing moves and shit, wouldn't it be, I don't know, a bit... better?

Hmm...

First of all, whatever is being channeled is leaping over Occam's Razor if it's gonna be called 'the Creative Force of the Universe'. Unless, by that you mean, we are all aspects of the CFotU, and this is a more pure expression of same. I dunno. But I wouldn't necessarily expect anything lasting and profound from CFotU. My impression from my Logos experiences was that this thing just wanted to come out and dance. Nothing lasting, but in that ephemeral expression, so much was achieved. On what level, I dunno, and I don't really care. I'm just appreciative to have been there.

Think about it this way - if we are all sparks of the Divine, wouldn't you expect our society to be more soulful and less fucked up? I for one do not. I am fully comfortable with the idea of being fucked over by a fellow Child of God. And I'm comfortable that the Logos would come through just to show what's possible, without leaving anything concrete behind. Then again, I see more interaction in the future, and more can come out of it. What I speak of here are baby steps, and I hope to travel this road further. Que sera sera.

I see it as a fairly common misconception - and one that I've been under for many years - that spiritual things should be mind-blowing and life-changing. The more soulful people i meet, the more i see that they are quiet, unassuming, and kind. Yeah, they might meditate, channel, astral-travel, see the future - but that is somehow unimportant in their lives, next to just being happy. No big deal, yet ultimately profound.

As for things like we've been talking about - they are pretty mind-blowing, but ephemeral. If it were to have been any 'better', i do believe my brain may've exploded.

[ThunderIdeal]

i basically just think, we are in physical bondage. we're like the scientist who peers at a seemingly full universe, but is able to find evidence of dark matter even though it cannot really be observed.

WE are FLATLANDERS. we like to think that if something is there we would see it, but i don't think it's so.

sorry dont understand,explain if u want?

t s t .

i just liked your last sentence and i laughed at the simplicity of how you said it

[chilli]

is the logos the alien a friend and i talked with?.......not much remembered, 2nd part was about how to incorporate the alien into our dna so it would no longer be alien.

is the logos god,the first artificial intelligence?

the inability of words to describe things like spiritual experiences leads me to dismiss any idea of the logos as language etc.

t s t .

Inability? I have listened to and read many people who describe very effectively their spiritual experiences using mere words... but I'm sure you have too? Insufficiency to completely describe maybe, or to directly transmit, and yeah sometimes I guess unable to describe

I welcome the postmodern rebellion against fixed or rationalistic ways of thinking about language and meaning as much as any dusty old French philosopher, but I think we are in a period in history where the pendulum often swings too far the other way.

I think there is a degree of blindness at work in dismissing the idea of the Logos as language, given the etymology of the 'word' and everything.

[t st tantra]

i dont think the word is a word as such but is more a symbol.i think of an algorithm,something which plays/multiplies out into the universe as we know it.think of the unpronouncable hebrew name of god.

this is similar to my view of the flower of life which i consider another model/symbol of the logos/word.

my assumption is 'the image of god' in which man is created is the logos/word.....[the he of yod he vau he]

was listening to abc729am last week,a program about kabala,the rabi said god was not the boundless light but came from it [rough interpretation].......some thing to ponder.

t s t .

Edited April 7, 2008 by t st tantra

[ThunderIdeal]

boundless light: elaborate please.