Books that changed you

[chilli]

(II Tim 3:16)

Yes, Nabraxas, I am aware of that verse, but there is quite a difference between something being "inspired by God" and "dictated" or "written by God." The traditional Christian view has been that God somehow managed to fully or completely inspire the Scriptures while fully maintaining the individuality and integrity of their human authors. Don't ask me how this is supposed to happen! It is a bit like Jesus being 100% God and 100% human, or God existing as one God in three persons, or God creating everything there is, but not being responsible for evil, or salvation being by grace and not works, and yet somehow depending on our "work" of believing and maintaining faith.

Sorry for the hijack OP, I will shutup now.

Edited October 17, 2007 by IllegalBrain

[ajna]

the book that prob had the greatest changing power on me was one called 'You - Forever' by T Lobsang Rampa. it's basically a guide to astral travel, auras, than kinda thing, written by a supposed tibetan monk. it was given to me when i was 14 or there abouts. i've read better books on the topics since, but this one was the first and most significant.

as a youngen i had a lot of spontaneous astral travel experiences and other similar exp which i didn't really know how to deal with (being brought up a Catholic n all), this book gave me the context with which i could understand what was going on and some practical techniques to work on, which pretty much dragged me out of my existential torment and on to the road of consciousness exploration.

there's controversy over whether Rampa was really a monk or a fraud, kinda Don Juan-esque, but just like the don juan books there's so much to take from them regardless of "authenticity"

[Sparkster]

as a youngen i had a lot of spontaneous astral travel experiences and other similar exp

I always struggle with what people mean when they refer to Astral travel, because people use it in so many different ways.

Past few years I've had occasions of out of body experiances while in bed, recently I read a BBC article about the effects of erractic sleep patterns and it seemed to sum up alot of what was happening to me, (though my sleep patterns were quite normal)

Would be interested to know what the setting were for "spontaneous" occurances happening (was it while you were in bed) and what you mean by similar experiances.

Theres a book I read a few years back by "From the Turret: The Occult Journeys of Peter Richelieu" which was very interesting, compiled of a series of lectures he received from an arab man in regards to sleep induced Astral travel.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-h...ter%20Richelieu

[ajna]

what i meant by astral travel is coming out of my body and floating first person to different places. the setting was mostly when falling asleep, sometimes waking up in the morning and often when napping in the arvo too. occasionally i'd feel the body vibration (which is usually the first sign it's happening) while awake in a day dreamy like state, like in class or just sitting quietly, but i was able to pull out of these ones, which i did because it was always such a frightening feeling.

by spontaneous i just mean uncontrollable really, i didn't intend for it to happen and when it did i initially had very little control over where i was going or when i could return to my body, which was prob the freakiest part. the other similar (but really not so similar) exp include things like very real feeling dreams where i'd be living out the mundane life of some unknown person from the past, dreams with 'messengers' giving me most often cryptic or seemingly pointless info (often a goat, which i associated with satan at the time - lots of confusion there), and occasionally glimpses of auric fields around some people and animals.

i managed to force astral travel and have better control for a while but at some point i became quite disenchanted with the astral realms and didn't follow through with the exercises, still now trying to get back to where i was with it all then but got a fair way to go.

[The Dude]

Yes, Nabraxas, I am aware of that verse, but there is quite a difference between something being "inspired by God" and "dictated" or "written by God." The traditional Christian view has been that God somehow managed to fully or completely inspire the Scriptures while fully maintaining the individuality and integrity of their human authors. Don't ask me how this is supposed to happen! It is a bit like Jesus being 100% God and 100% human, or God existing as one God in three persons, or God creating everything there is, but not being responsible for evil, or salvation being by grace and not works, and yet somehow depending on our "work" of believing and maintaining faith.

Sorry for the hijack OP, I will shutup now.

continue hijacking. Please Ignore this if you're curious about what books i like as it's off-topic but that tangents got me...

Supposedly this is the direct word of god transcribed into these prophets who write it out. Is that not automatic writing? or possession? It's funny how the prophets are exempt from what everyone else would consider satanic possession, cuz they have it on Gods authority that satan wasn't the one actually deceiving them it seems that 'god' or the demiurge or satan is behind it all. Satan as the deceiver is the architect of reality as all reality is an illusion(deception), it makes sense as anything ever experienced and then further displaced from the 'source' as it is written or symbolised somehow is a perversion of a perversion of the 'source' anything we receive from it is inherintly tainted by our perception and then further by our inability to express what it was Exactly that we've seen. so how can any book/creation be Fully representative of god if it is not god - that is the totality of all existence, that'd be a fat fucking book to read through

Anyway I suppose my point is it's all written by god, that includes black magick too, the grand work is composed of the yin AND yang, so god can be an evil dude too. just cuz it's the word of God doesnt mean you should always trust him, he's a prankster god but these pranks are there for the ultimate goal of enlightenment - by being fooled you can see your error and grow.

Ranting... sorry point is god is everywhere like the lifeforce, it is made manifest in ANY creative act, from that of DNA to that of our 'man-made' creations, all is nature(god). Mystical revelations may be had by simply witnessing nature, no holy book or 'authority' is needed for you to trust the validity of mysticism as this is a personal matter anyway.

PS. Holy books are cool though cuz most of those guys were on drugs or in some kind of Non-Ordinary reality. These states are archetypal and timeless and the hippies have been essentially saying the same shit now since eternity.

PPS. after vomiting that out I'm very sorry for the hijack

[The Dude]

Back on topic...

I honestly haven't read all that many books but I really should cuz learning is cool AND fun... yer im a nerd

I really liked The Godfather and that got me into reading The Last Don by Puzo as well. I suppose they were the first books that I read and enjoyed so they probably changed my attitude towards reading in general. Also I guess this also sparked the interest in gangster movies.

I have a shitload of e-books but goddamn they're annoying to read on yer monitor. I gotta print them out. I like what I've read and seen of Deepak Chopra.

Fascinated with Esotericism and Occultism (are they pretty much the same thing?) and Magick and manipulating reality, any good suggestions?

Edited October 17, 2007 by El Duderino

[nabraxas]

but there is quite a difference between something being "inspired by God" and "dictated" or "written by God."

i knew you'd say that. Surely the difference is only a matter ov degrees though? I mean "inspiration" here doesn't mean like the books were inspired by the love ov God in a muse kind ov stylee, but by a direct inspiration to record God's words & acts.

Isn't that only slightly removed from direct dictation?

i wonder what kind ov mood God was in when he inspired Solomon to write Songs. Hard to imagine God w/a hard on.

Also, i should add the Bhagavad Gita, it hasn't really changed my life, but it has been pretty inspirational.

Edited October 18, 2007 by nabraxas

[worowa]

It was a joke, sorry to upset you Illegal brain. No need to be so rude. I was just sharing my thoughts on books.

Thanks for the judgement, made me feel crappy. You love everyone? Words are cheap.

[chilli]

i knew you'd say that. Surely the difference is only a matter ov degrees though? I mean "inspiration" here doesn't mean like the books were inspired by the love ov God in a muse kind ov stylee, but by a direct inspiration to record God's words & acts.

Isn't that only slightly removed from direct dictation?

i wonder what kind ov mood God was in when he inspired Solomon to write Songs. Hard to imagine God w/a hard on.

Also, i should add the Bhagavad Gita, it hasn't really changed my life, but it has been pretty inspirational.

Well, I knew that you knew I would say it

Please understand that I'm not arguing that this is true, I'm just saying it is traditional orthodox Christian belief. You are right that "inspired" does not denote how we usually think of the term. As you probably know, it literally means "God-breathed" and is translated in this way in more literal versions. Nevertheless, this is a far cry from some kind of possession or automatic writing as El Duderino understands it, it is more like the way that God is purported to work out his purposes in everything, ie. providence. The assembly of the Christian canon is seen in the same way: a human process which God is supposed to have worked through to bring about the outcome he desired. Song of Solomon is actually a good example... was God there dictating all this erotica to this guy who then wrote it down, or was it something written by some horny zealot which was later recognized as having the "signature of God" on it? Similarly, Paul wrote many letters to churches which were lost, and he often felt as though God was directing him to write, but it is his own unique writing and perspective, which can be discerned as soon as we start to compare his writings to those of say John.

To stay slightly more OT, "Counterfeit Revival" by Hank Hannegraff is a book that totally changed the way I see the Pentecostal church, which I was raised in.

[chilli]

It was a joke, sorry to upset you Illegal brain. No need to be so rude. I was just sharing my thoughts on books.

Thanks for the judgement, made me feel crappy. You love everyone? Words are cheap.

Hey? Are you still joking? I am really confused, because you either read that two days ago before I edited it, which would be weird because you are still having a cry about it now, or you found something to cry about in my edited post, which is weird because I apologized to you in it.

Anyway, what part of what you said was a joke? Do you think it's shite or not? Me saying I love everyone was also a joke.

[KanJe]

Sophie's World by Jostein Gaarder, Stephen Hawkings A Brief History of Time, Human All Too Human by Friedrich Nietzsche, The Razors Edge by Somerset Maugham, Catch-22 by Joseph Heller (from where I stole the moniker Irving Washington), Galapagos by Kurt Vonnegut, Animal Farm by George Orwell, Voltaire's Candide ....and for sheer prosaic beauty (even in the English translation) part 1 of Faust by Goethe.

Fantastic book..!

I heard a reviewer explain this as '4000 years of philosophy condenced into 400 pages.'

A good one Apothecary...

[The Dude]

Nevertheless, this is a far cry from some kind of possession or automatic writing as El Duderino understands it, it is more like the way that God is purported to work out his purposes in everything, ie. providence.

*sigh*

I figured my ranting about the life force or chi or god being in everything would suggest that 'God is purported to work out his purpose in everything'

I guess you must've missed that. The point I was making about automatic writing is, if this is claimed to be the 100% un-adulterated direct word of god then it MUST be automatic as every perspective inherintly distorts. And even then I do not think it possible for there to be a 'godly' symbolism that is universal as we each create our own symbols for the unseen (then build consensus in language). SO whatever method of transcription takes place it is Always inherintly a degredation of the 'purity' of god. If it was inspired by altruism or a zonked out automatic writing it don't matter really, but 'direct transcription of the word of god' implies the latter and I find it funny that holy men are exempt from what others would call satanic possession, probably based on some doctrine from the same holy books.

That was my point really, that the idea is b/s that this mans god authority is THE authority, sure there are synchromystic associations and revelations to be had in holy books, just as there are in everyday reality, cuz all is god and in a way we're all possessed, from sub-atomic particles to the grander workings of the universe.

/end rant (was getting a bit defensive there)

[chilli]

No, its okay mate I wasn't disagreeing or arguing with you, just using that concept as an example of what the Christian view of inspiration isn't... sorry if I messed it up. Actually, I just skimmed your post, because it was long and introduced new topics, so I was going to come back to it because I'm a bit stressed at the moment... that's why I qualified it by saying "which is why I said "as El Duderino seems to understand it," I was actually trying to make it as inoffensive as possible, but I probably made it worse! Story of my life.

So anyway, now that I've read your post in more detail, and especially your latest post I have to say I mostly agree with your logic, in fact I was discussing something very similar a couple of nights ago with the local Anglican minister: Seeing as the traditional Christian view is that the Bible is God's word, but only in its original language (which we can't translate accurately), and only in its original manuscripts (which we don't have anymore), how can we say that what we have now is the Word of God in any complete sense? For instance, when Universalists argue against the doctrine of eternal punishment, they base many of their arguments on exactly the same words that the eternal torment believers do (Gr. aion, Hb. olam)... so which one has got it right? I also tend to lean towards a deterministic view of things, as you seem to, although I am trying to moderate it by accounting for chaos.

*edit* Heya, actually you said "supposedly this is the direct word of god transcribed into these prophets who write it out. Is that not automatic writing? or possession?" So what did I do wrong? Also, I don't know of any Christian doctrine that says the Bible is anywhere near a complete revelation of God, in fact Paul says "now we see through a dirty mirror... now we see only in part."

*sigh*

I figured my ranting about the life force or chi or god being in everything would suggest that 'God is purported to work out his purpose in everything'

I guess you must've missed that. The point I was making about automatic writing is, if this is claimed to be the 100% un-adulterated direct word of god then it MUST be automatic as every perspective inherintly distorts. And even then I do not think it possible for there to be a 'godly' symbolism that is universal as we each create our own symbols for the unseen (then build consensus in language). SO whatever method of transcription takes place it is Always inherintly a degredation of the 'purity' of god. If it was inspired by altruism or a zonked out automatic writing it don't matter really, but 'direct transcription of the word of god' implies the latter and I find it funny that holy men are exempt from what others would call satanic possession, probably based on some doctrine from the same holy books.

That was my point really, that the idea is b/s that this mans god authority is THE authority, sure there are synchromystic associations and revelations to be had in holy books, just as there are in everyday reality, cuz all is god and in a way we're all possessed, from sub-atomic particles to the grander workings of the universe.

/end rant (was getting a bit defensive there)

Edited October 18, 2007 by IllegalBrain

[indigo264nm]

One fish two fish red fish blue fish.

Edited October 18, 2007 by -=IndigoSunrise=-

[apothecary]

Can't believe I forgot, Douglas Adams Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, which I would describe as all the other books I mentioned, compressed into one.

42? Of course.

[chilli]

Can't believe I forgot, Douglas Adams Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, which I would describe as all the other books I mentioned, compressed into one.

42? Of course.

Ooh, ooh, me too! Plus, that kid's book where the fish just keeps getting bigger and bigger, and the first book I remember reading on my own "David and the Phoenix." At least, it seemed good when I was 5.

[gerbil]

ah yes that was a good book IB, no one in my family can remember the name though! I keep mixing it up with I Wish I Had Duckfeet which was the book sitting right next to the fish one at my grandma's house.

Thanks for this thread, it has really sparked some early memories that I may not have accessed without! or at least for a significant time.

The BFG by Roald Dahl is actually one I can vividly recall hiring over and over from the school library early in primary school where I was reading ahead of my years compared to the students in my grade, can remember a lot of the pictures and parts of the book, that definitely paved the way for my future, this was probably one of the most important now that I think of it.

That and various books on dinosaurs are my earliest memories of reading, I especially loved the detailed colour drawings of the natural world incorporating the dinosaurs, it led me onto wanting to be an archaeologist or a paleontologist which was a heavy obsession until I hit high school were I became very jaded and fucked up by the agenda of the schools and society Lost so much passion about the concept and potential of life and the living world until I came back into the natural world through plant study of tribal indigenous cultures. I still get chills thinking about the ancient world even though alot was probably young childhood fantasy; THAT was what Shuglin talks about in my opinion; that perception only a child can experience to it's full potential before becoming lost in this mess humans have created.

[XipeTotec]

yeah, that fish one was great

[AndyAmine.]

Another one that did a lot for my sense of change.

Who Moved My Cheese.

http://www.whomovedmycheese.com/whomovedmy.../phenomenon.php

[incognito]

a warrior blends with life- a modern tao by michael lattora.

[The Dude]

*edit* Heya, actually you said "supposedly this is the direct word of god transcribed into these prophets who write it out. Is that not automatic writing? or possession?" So what did I do wrong? Also, I don't know of any Christian doctrine that says the Bible is anywhere near a complete revelation of God, in fact Paul says "now we see through a dirty mirror... now we see only in part."

I am unsure of specific christian doctrine within any of the 'holy books' that would suggest this, but there are more than enough people that believe this 'truth'

Sorry for the continued Hijack but the PM system is down (muahaha How convenient! :D )

"Supposedly" being the qualifier word. My point which I made AGAIN and will make yet again is that if the directness and 'purity' of the texts are stressed it must mean No alteration from the lowly mind of man, as we understand that God is the almighty creator standing above man in the story of creation (supposedly) so any word of his we can follow verbatim cuz it is of the highest authority. I merely disagree with the stressing of Direct Word of God as some kind of qualifier for its supreme authority. Sure everything is divinely inspired from the most mundane to the most profound and revelation can be had in reference to either type of creation, so Everything is either the word of god or the concept of god remains as the oldschool archetype of "Big Daddy" instead of "Totality"

I would say that certain texts may be infused with a type of Holy Resonance, especially if that was their intention and they may be inspired by what some call the higher godly concepts of altruism and faith, so in that way they are god-inspired but just like paul said the mirror is dirty so it never is the image of god, just the reflection - on a dirty mirror no less, the trick is to spit-shine that 3rd eye and better see the reflection.

I am so interested in the ancient holy books that i forget which one it was... the Torah or the Talmud, either way they crank funky numerology which is meant to prove their holy authority. mostly dealing with multiples of 7, this I see as intentionally encoding what might have been hidden esoteric knowledge from a distant past or a natural understanding through intuition and observation of the numerological foundations of reality. It is meant to be a reflection of god (as below so above). Further study of biblical numerology in the orginal ancient hebrew finds newer and newer synchs that it seems impossible that all their words with their numerical value that are composed of their own letters which are again words with their numerical values are cross-referenced which are shown to have numeric meaning - were intentionally designed to do so in all their possible iterations of meaning association.

I cannot remember ANY actual examples of the words used but say there is mum =4 and dad =5 then child would, with their alphabet = 9. and then there'd be higher concepts like god with lets say a number like 11 and then the word reality would be 22 suggesting reality is god expressed through duality. stuff like that, although I'm unsure to the extent of these connections and how much cross-refrencing goes on, in any case it's a bit of a holographic principle going on where every word symbolises a number (which is a word with its letters and numbers) and every letter within said word does so again ad infinitum, in this way it is a Very good symbol of god, that is holographically self-referential meaning associations giving way to material reality.

There's the theory about information existing non-temporally or in a timeless space or in a higher dimension. That material realities may be the end product of the totality of experiences and interpretations referencing it. For instance the Torah is a composite of the original writings together with their interpretations which are to this day re-interpreted and perhaps novel synchs found in what may be an infinite puzzle (if one wishes). My point being that the later interpretations may have forward inspired the actual text. It seems that the greater influence something has the more it becomes divinely inspired anyway as it is the influence which builds consensus which is the building blocks of reality which is god. Chicken or egg I dont know?

I still don't believe that such a text must have been 'automatically written' I'm just suggesting that the word of god is everywhere and depending on how influential it is will be networked and cross-referenced to provide experiential 'proof' within personal experiences. god is our creation and the more one or another concept is believed the more it is self-validated.

Numerology is a funky way to imbue a book with Holiness, as numbers and numerology are a part of (at least my) holistic thinking.

Too many a synchronistic resonance has happened in the few days since starting this discussion of god revealing itself in anything but Holy Books that got me thinking that they're not necessary anyway.

Edited October 20, 2007 by El Duderino

[gromit]

anyhu.. fuck this whole religion shit... it is just imposed ingorance.

the one book that changed me the most was by the great man who's image i have as my avatar

and not F&L in las vegas, but hell's angels. READ IT!

RIP HST

Edited October 19, 2007 by --{ MAYJA }--

[incognito]

"now we see through a dirty mirror... now we see only in part."

that could mean a multitude of things, like homer said in the movie, this book contains no answers" its like a nursery rhyme , ur interpretation is whats important. no use arguing whats writeand wrong about sumthin written so long ago thats been re-interpretated so many times. I like itthough its a nicestory, and shows how to live a moral life in a ways. i mean u would be hard pressed to think the 10commandmentsarecrap cept for z falls gods part

(my opinion every1 has 1)

[The Dude]

anyhu.. fuck this whole religion shit... it is just imposed ingorance.

A critical look at reality together with the doctrines that make up our beliefs that Create our realities in the first place... is far from imposed ignorance. Blindly believing the bible verbatim is a fallacy as the bible itself should explain with its multitude of contradictions. The idea IS to have a critical view of holy texts otherwise they have no effect on accelerating consciousness development. They are a catalyst for creating heaven they are not heaven itself, hard work must be done, one cannot blindly believe and hope for the best. Religious texts are self-improvement manuals in that only by helping others can we help ourselves, there is no they, all is one.

The only reason for my fascination with Ancient Texts especially the Torah is their synchromystic numerical funkiness, which is a good example to compare against my own personal synchro-mystic revelations, -although totally unrelated to any holy books - I find it funky how god reveals itself in subtle connections that can be understood to be Profound! Also I'm curious about magickal control of our consciousness/environment and the manipulation through language has been happening (as far as we know) from Egypt and then through their Mysteries onto Judaism, seeing as much of the Western World is still running within the Judeo/Christian paradigm it is fascinating to think about. Many Magickal Teks are still based on Gematria or Judaic/Kabbalistic influenced ideas. I rather arm myself with knowledge is all. I'm no priest or anything...

You cannot think you are YOU, apart from you're identity or ego there is the totality of human beliefs flowing around you like infectious memes, old legacies that we still must wipe out. The question is, should we ignore all that bullshit? or magnify the malignant tumour so we can perform surgery?

RIP HST

I've only read F&L and I bloody love it. - too many quotes to choose from...

I've read a few random articles in online sports magazines or something by the guy as well - pretty funny, but they were still sports articles.

I cannot rememeber which book it was or if it was just an open letter but I remember reading him vent his frustrations at th current political system and the parasitic vampires that vote for them. That they're the same people that killed M. Luther King and supported Nixon (stuff like that) - as sad as the times were that sort of angry re-appraisal of the bullshit situation was very funny to read and helped soothe the frustration that we all shared.

- this was recently i think maybe before Dubyas re-election, which was thought to have maybe pushed HST over the edge with his depression and whatnot. Obvioulsy after one term of puppet government you'd think they'd kick that clown out but voting him in 2x in a row would be very disillusional to anybody living in the United States.

[Storm crow]

The way of the peaceful warrior by some tripper who later got into numerology

By Dan Millman. I read it a few weeks ago and it is definitely inspirational I'm looking forward to reading Sacred Journey of the Peaceful Warrior next when I can find a copy of it 2nd hand.

Anything by Douglas Adams has been very moving for me too.