How to differentiate a Heartattack from Muscle Pain

[chilli]

hemp seed is another good vegetarian source of EFAs IB ;)

kinda glad to hear i'm not the only one concerned about heart problems, however i've concluded that mine are all symptoms of anxiety.

i just quit coffee because i realised it was harbouring this anxiety cycle, i havent been a daily drinker for that long but just one coffee in the morning would result in irregular heatbeats that night and angina randomly through the day. then i'd get concerned about my health, the anxiety would rise, my heart would play up more, other symptoms started to present themselves like shortness of breath, a weird rumble sensation in my chest...you get the picture. it's been about a week since i had coffee and all symptoms are subsiding, although i still have bouts of anxiety but that has happened most of my life.

obviously heart health is a very serious concern, definitely get a pro opinion if you are unsure, but i thought i'd add my two bits as an example of how you can turn youself into a hypochondriac if you arent careful! lol

Yes, I gave up coffee a while ago, as it works by slowing the metabolizing of adrenaline. I would have a coffee and then a couple of hour later notice I was really anxious, especially if I'd done something exciting because the adrenaline was basically pooling in my body and starting a kind of cycle. I've started drinking black and green tea again and decaf coffee, and haven't seemed to have had the same problems as with coffee. Lots of anxiety ridden folks around SAB... chicken or egg?

[Auntyjack]

Yes, I gave up coffee a while ago....

now that explains everything!!!! nuk nuk nuk

[chilli]

now that explains everything!!!! nuk nuk nuk

Huh? Now I really am getting paranoid!

From Wikipedia:

Benefits of fish oil

See also Coronary heart disease (Omega-3_fatty_acids)

Some experts believe that taking fish oil (in any form) can help regulate cholesterol in the body, because fish oil has high levels of omega-3 fatty acids. The regulation occurs through effects of the EPA and DHA constituents on Peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor alpha (PPARα). Besides cholesterol regulation, benefits include anti-inflammatory properties and positive effects on body composition. However, the preferred source of Omega 3 should be from the fish's body, not the liver. The liver and liver products (such as cod liver oil) of fish and many animals (such as seals and whales) contain Omega-3, but also the active form of vitamin A. At high levels, this form of the vitamin can be dangerous. Early explorers to the land of the Inuit were given raw liver by the natives, which contained a toxic overdose of vitamin A for the white explorers; however, the same amount was harmless to the Inuit, who had no other source of Vitamin A except animal livers.

Studies[4][5] were conducted on prisoners in England where the inmates were fed seafood which contains Omega-3 Fatty acids. The higher consumption of these fatty acids led to a drop in the assault rates. Another Finnish study found that prisoners who were convicted of violence had lower levels of omega–3 fatty acids than prisoners convicted of nonviolent offenses. It was suggested that these kinds of fatty acids are responsible for the neuronal growth of the frontal cortex of the brain which, it is further alleged, is the seat of personal behavior.

The American Heart Association recommends the consumption of 1g of fish oil daily, preferably by eating fish, for patients with coronary heart disease.[6]

The US National Institutes of Health lists three conditions for which fish oil and other omega-3 sources are most highly recommended: hypertriglyceridemia, secondary cardiovascular disease prevention and high blood pressure. It then lists 27 other conditions for which there less evidence. It also lists possible safety concerns: "Intake of 3 grams per day or greater of omega-3 fatty acids may increase the risk of bleeding, although there is little evidence of significant bleeding risk at lower doses. Very large intakes of fish oil/omega-3 fatty acids ("Eskimo" amounts) may increase the risk of hemorrhagic (bleeding) stroke."[7]

According to a study from Louisiana State University in September 2005, fish oil may help protect the brain from cognitive problems associated with Alzheimer's disease. [8]

Fish oil has also been shown to aid in the treatment of people suffering with depression.[9]

For purchasing fish oil dietary supplements, it is highly recommended to seek a label certifying the product to be "molecularly distilled", USP Certified, and therefore free of mercury and other metal toxins.

I don't think mine says anything about being molecularly distilled I think I'd rather lose the benefits and avoid eating mercury!

So Apoth, do you know of any way for vegos to get these long chain omega 3 oils?

[ajna]

"Lots of anxiety ridden folks around SAB... chicken or egg?"

lol, i've been wondering the same thing for about 2 years now

the a-linolenic acid in flaxseed oil is a precursor to EPA and requires zinc, b6 and magnesium to convert it. so the flaxseed should still do the job afaik

[apothecary]

Sorry for the hijack EG

http://www.csiro.au/science/ps3u.html

DHA - an omega-3 healthy oil

Omega-3 oils are polyunsaturated fatty acids that are considered 'healthy oils'. Docosa-hexaenoic acid, or DHA, is a long-chain omega-3 fatty acid that is favoured for its health benefits.

DHA is found in every cell membrane in the body and is vital for brain and eye development in infants. It is also now widely recognised for its ability to reduce:

*

coronary heart disease risk

*

type-2 diabetes

*

Alzheimers disease

*

asthma.

Traditional sources of DHA

DHA and other long-chain omega-3 fatty acids are made by lower plant forms, including marine plants like microalgae.

Fish do not create their own DHA, they acquire DHA when they eat microalgae. Fish accumulate high levels of DHA, which in turn can be consumed by humans as a source of DHA.

Higher level plants that grow on land do not have the same ability to produce DHA as the lower plants. Some land plants can make other types of omega-3, namely short-chain omega-3 fatty acids, but these are not as useful in the human diet as the long-chain fatty omega-3 fatty acids like DHA.

Many foods are now enriched with omega-3 oils from fish, but with declining natural fish stocks, and aquaculture's current reliance on fish-based feeds, additional sources of long-chain omega-3 oils are urgently needed.

Hope that explains things IB.

I gave up black and green tea with coffee, it's all caffeinated and with tannins can largely inhibit iron and protein absorption. Now that my caffeine tolerance is nonexistant, I am happy to drink occasional coffee again (must be with milk! mocha or machiato) as it is a potent stimulant that helps remove certain types of headaches for me. Otherwise find it safest to stick to rooibos which is (usually) organic, very rich in antioxidants/minerals/vits and low in tannins/no caffeine.

[apothecary]

Yeah, I'd just like to add that ajna is right, you can metabolise long chain from short chain. There are supposed to be some groups of people whos bodies have trouble with this conversion but I have not done much research on the issue.

I only supplement with ALA

[Auxin]

Possibility of heart attack has always worried me. I had to have the ends of my ribs cut off so sneezing wouldnt puncture my heart, now if my back is out on the corresponding vertebrae or if I sneeze without physically restraining my rib cage the ends of the ribs grind against eachother tearing flesh and causing pain directly over the heart.. for me any chest pain is easy to write off to back problems, sneezing, or lifting things wrong.

Why cant peoples bodies be more definite in symptoms, like your nipples turning blue during a heart attack or something?

japanese eat a lot more fish than we do and have hardly any heart disease at all.

same with eskimos and other cultures that primarily eat fish products.

Just be careful not to try and replicate the eskimo diet. Diets that rich in fish liver can be lethal to non-inuits, vitamin A overdose, several early white alaskan explorers died of carotene poisoning.

[chilli]

Otherwise find it safest to stick to rooibos which is (usually) organic, very rich in antioxidants/minerals/vits and low in tannins/no caffeine.

Rooibos tea is awesome! Is the shop bought stuff organic? I have just started buying it from an organic supermarket!

[Hagakure]

the thing about ala etc is you need to get the ratios correct between your omega 3 and omega 6 intake.

they both compete for some similar enzymes to lengthen their chains.

more short chain omega sixs will reduce the amount of DHA synthesised.

but yeah, flaxseed oil is a good move. boosting ratio of omega 3 in your system will result in more DHA produced.

has anyone looked into polyprenols? some interesting research out there saying how some polyprenols help membrane functioning or something in the liver helping to reverse damage in alcoholics and drug addicts. i got a few shares in a company called Solagran a while ago and hoping that clinical trial results will come through with the goods.

auxin - dont worry my access to seal blubber is rather limited. why did the whities get so messed up by a diet that the eskimos were surviving on? where they eating large amounts of some things that the natives ate in moderation?

[chilli]

Flaxseed oil it is then! At last I can stop putting live fish through a grape press... what do you mean that isn't the only way to get fish oil?!

has anyone looked into polyprenols? some interesting research out there saying how some polyprenols help membrane functioning or something in the liver helping to reverse damage in alcoholics and drug addicts. i got a few shares in a company called Solagran a while ago and hoping that clinical trial results will come through with the goods.

Sooo... you are kind of a pharmaceutical rep now huh?

auxin - dont worry my access to seal blubber is rather limited. why did the whities get so messed up by a diet that the eskimos were surviving on? where they eating large amounts of some things that the natives ate in moderation?

From the earlier Wiki quote: "Early explorers to the land of the Inuit were given raw liver by the natives, which contained a toxic overdose of vitamin A for the white explorers; however, the same amount was harmless to the Inuit, who had no other source of Vitamin A except animal livers."

/begin joke

Ooh, when are we gonna get in trouble for this tangent... it might confuse and enrage people who come to find out about differentiating heart and muscle pain! Nah, but seriously, not everyone on SAB is interested in this stuff, so maybe it should be posted in uh... the philosophy forum!

/end joke

Edited September 8, 2007 by IllegalBrain

[Auxin]

Eskimos have a higher tolerance for carotene megadose. If for 1000 generations your survival often hinges on consuming near-lethal doses of a drug its not long before that same dose is no longer near-lethal.

[Hagakure]

i think the dfferentiating between a heart attack and chest pain conversation has completed yeah? i dont see any problems with continuing the discussion in here seeing there is a lot of interesting stuff being discussed.

thats interesting about the carotene tolerance in eskimos. i doubt it would take 100o generations though.

i am pretty sure there has been a dramatic case of evolution in african populations.

prior to interaction with other cultures africans had no milk products in their diets. after getting past breast feeding the enzymes required to digest lactose (or some other chemical in milk) are turned off in most africans.

but there has been a rapid selection for those that have modified genes for digesting milk.

i guess africa has had its fair share of famines etc and if you can digest milk properly while others cant thats one more food source that might help you survive.

was an interesting article about it in new scientist or somethign i think. cant remember all the details but thats the jist.

in short, if we sent a whole lot of anglos to alaska i wonder how long it would take for selectionary pressures to select for those that can handle carotene as oposed to those that cant.

[chilli]

i think the dfferentiating between a heart attack and chest pain conversation has completed yeah? i dont see any problems with continuing the discussion in here seeing there is a lot of interesting stuff being discussed.

Sorry for the confusion, I was just joking about similar occurrences in another thread which has now been deleted!

Edited September 8, 2007 by IllegalBrain

[ajna]

well i've known about hemp seed oil being a source of EFAs for a while but never really looked into it until now. turns out it's the best vegetarian source there is, with the perfect ratio between o6 and o3.

there's an aussie company selling it by the bottle here (organic)

http://www.happyplanet.com.au/shop/product...hp?ProductID=74

and there's a few other international sites selling caps and such

more concentrated products as supplements would be best unless you could incorporate the oil into a lot of raw food prep

so we've either got the Aquatic ape theory, or we can go back to the Stoned ape theory and postulate that we lost body hair because a full body of dreadlocks proved to be incredibly impractical!

Edited September 8, 2007 by ajna

[chilli]

well i've known about hemp seed oil being a source of EFAs for a while but never really looked into it until now. turns out it's the best vegetarian source there is, with the perfect ratio between o6 and o3.

there's an aussie company selling it by the bottle here (organic)

http://www.happyplanet.com.au/shop/product...hp?ProductID=74

and there's a few other international sites selling caps and such

more concentrated products as supplements would be best unless you could incorporate the oil into a lot of raw food prep

so we've either got the Aquatic ape theory, or we can go back to the Stoned ape theory and postulate that we lost body hair because a full body of dreadlocks proved to be incredibly impractical!

That's awesome mate, thanks for the info! I will feel so l33t telling people that one of nutritional supplements is hemp seed oil... and that is what being a vegetarian is all about, feeling l33t!

Edited September 8, 2007 by IllegalBrain

[nabraxas]

As well as hemp & flax seed oils spirulina seems to be an excellent source ov omega's, it is rather expensive, but it has alot ov other benefits.

Spirulina is rich in gamma-linolenic acid (GLA), and also provides alpha-linolenic acid (ALA), linoleic acid (LA), stearidonic acid (SDA), eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA), docosahexaenoic acid (DHA), and arachidonic acid (AA).[7][8]

http://www.answers.com/topic/spirulina-dietary-supplement

Most notably, Spirulina is 65 to 71 percent complete protein, with all essential amino acids in perfect balance. In comparison, beef is only 22 percent protein.

Spirulina has a photosynthetic conversion rate of 8 to 10 percent, compared to only 3 percent in such land-growing plants as soybeans.

In addition, Spirulina is one of the few plant sources of vitamin B12, usually found only in animal tissues. A teaspoon of Spirulina supplies 21/2 times the Recommended Daily Allowance of vitamin B12 and contains over twice the amount of this vitamin found in an equivalent serving of liver.

Spirulina also provides high concentrations of many other nutrients - amino acids, chelated minerals, pigmentations, rhamnose sugars (complex natural plant sugars), trace elements, enzymes - that are in an easily assimilable form.

http://www.naturalways.com/spirul1.htm

[Vertmorpheus]

Word from the wise is that if it hurts more when you press on it with your hand, its ligaments etc rather than your heart. Tends to pop up after some time spent doing some kind of twisting/pushing/pulling motion, orientated somewhere around or below your centre of gravity etc.

If you don't go pasty grey and feel like you are going to die, it's probably not a "heart attack". That being said, there are a whole range of things taht can go wrong with the heart and surrounds, plenty are a big worry but are not "heart attacks" as such. You may be getting angina, which is a bit confusing in diagnostic terms , but it does tend to lead people to doctors offices who then tend to recommend checking you out for blockages, necrotic tissue etc.

If you think you are having a heart attack, take an aspirin or two, and try to make yourself cough. Put your feet up, so the heart has to do less work. Many cardiac issues can be handled pretty well with medication if you get em in time.

take care, stop lifting all those pots in tight work areas and you might feel better ;)

VM

[Evil Genius]

Sorry for the hijack EG

No Problem! As long as they are not in an airplane, i dont have Problems with hijackers!

take care, stop lifting all those pots in tight work areas and you might feel better ;)

Finally someone who thinks that i should work less! he he.

Edited September 9, 2007 by Evil Genius

[chilli]

Sorry for the hijack EG

No Problem! As long as they are not in an airplane, i dont have Problems with hijackers!

take care, stop lifting all those pots in tight work areas and you might feel better ;)

Finally someone who thinks that i should work less! he he.

Was talking to the wife and she said the coughing thing is a bit of an old wives tale... I looked it up, and it sounds like there is a kernel of truth to it, but it has been widely misunderstood.

Check here and here for the first couple of links I found after googling it.

Still, it seems like it couldn't hurt to try it if you are having a heart attack! What have you got to lose?