Guest jjf Posted January 2, 2002 Hi everyone, Just wondering if anyone knows if morning glory plant matter contains LSA in as high concentration as the seeds, or any where near that? Thanks! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wira Posted January 3, 2002 Some Ipomoea spp., as well as Turbina [Rivea] corymbosa, have been found to contain alkaloids in the aerial parts, but it's rare that their identity has actually been pursued. In T. corymbosa, alkaloids were found in leaves and stems, but not in roots, with the concentration increasing with age. Plants 9 months old yielded 0.027% alkaloids from leaves, and 0.012% from stems, consisting mostly of ergine [LSA] and isoergine, as well as at least 2 other indole alkaloids. However, the samples weren't exhaustively extracted so they may have contained more alkaloid than was reported in that study (which was Taber, W.A. et al. 1962. "Ergot-type alkaloids in vegetative tissue of Rivea corymbosa (L.) Hall. f." Phytochemistry 2:99-101). Several varieties of Ipomoea violacea have had alkaloids detected in aerial parts and roots [all fresh weight], but the alkaloids weren't identified. 'Flying saucers' yielded traces to 0.00035% alkaloids from aerial parts, and 0-0.00033% from roots; 'Heavenly blue' yielded 0.0025-0.0047% from aerial parts, 0-0.0015% from roots; and 'Pearly gates' yielded 0.0032-0.013% from aerial parts, 0-0.0005% from roots. Though we don't know for sure what these alkaloids are, the yields are comparable to the ranges found in various batches of seed studied over the years [and that is certainly a large variation]. It's worth bearing in mind the possibility that other potentially toxic compounds might exist in the vegetative parts, before jumping in and preparing some leaf and stem cuttings in the same way as the seeds. If the vegetation can be as useful as the seeds, then I'm forced to wonder why those who used the plants traditionally in Mexico didn't figure that out... maybe they knew from previous experimentation that the leaves and stems are undesirable for shamanic purposes? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted January 3, 2002 Another question about MG. Those wild morning glories that seem to grow about everywhere in Queensland,the variety that NEVER seeds, would their leaves contain good concentrations of LSA, or just poisons? Has anyone researched that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest jjf Posted January 3, 2002 Thanks wira! AFOAF will give it a go and let you all know how it goes. He has about 150grams of dried plant material to work with - is the product going to be in the range of less than a gram? Also if you have any ideas as to how he can carefully store the product before consumption so that it doesn't break down that'd be cool In regards to the traditional use.. I thought about this - firstly the leaves taste like *crap*. I can't imagine downing a handful of them, and that's before the nauseua kicks in. I could be wrong He plans to use an acid/base extraction - that should ensure only the alkaloids are obtained right? Actually I'll post the instructions he has for this extraction below. He got them from someone off alt.drugs.chemistry a while ago but never had a chance to try it out. O also when he was out gathering the plant material yesterday he saw a plant that looked almost identical to this photo of acacia phlebophylla (this is from your species data list). Do all young acacia's look like that or is this distinct from the rest of them? I'll take a pic next time I'm out there. Gomaos: That's exactly the reason I was asking - they grow wild all around Sydney too, and they don't produce seeds so... Here's the extraction procedure he plans to follow: Air-dried plant material is mortared, then moistened with 0.1 M sodium carbonate aq. to free the base. The material is percolated in a column with 1 liter petroleum ether added dropwise over 5-8 hours. Dilute acid, to 0.02 N HCl, is used to extract the hopeful-amide from the nonpolar solvent, in three vigorous washings (200, 200, 100 ml) in a 2-liter bottle (hell yeah home chemists). Coincidentally, that same bottle was used as separatory funnel, by inverting ) it and carefully loosening the cap. So after the brightly-glowing aqueous fraction was cut out, make the solution basic with ammonia, giving a precipitate which takes forever to settle out. But it works. check it out under a blacklight... be mystified [This message has been edited by jjf (edited 03 January 2002).] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Psilo_smylin Posted January 3, 2002 jjf, when you regisered, did you read the disclaimer "...or otherwise violative of any law." Please beware of how you phrase your questions and statements before potentialy incriminating yourself. Its hard to tell from your photo, but it looks like you have found a prostrate wattle, my guess being A.longifolia var. sophorae. Fairly closely related (juliflorae? I think), but definatly NOT A.phlebophylla. Unless you live on the rocky granite slopes of Mt B, your chances of finding it in the wild are slim to nil. Wira will be able to set you straight with this info, I'm out of my depth Anyone want Acacia phlebophylla seeds??? ~$10 each(3-$15USD).......haa thats Buffalo shit! 'n Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest jjf Posted January 3, 2002 Thanks psilo - fixed! No that photo isn't mine, I just linked to it from the species data list. I just linked to it to see if anyone knew if the other plants looked similar at a young age. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wira Posted January 4, 2002 $10 each? sure sounds shit to me! Psilo, why are you so certain it's not phlebophylla in that pic? It's sure not great quality, and could look like numerous Acacias [particularly melanoxylon and longifolia ssp. sophorae come to mind], but from that quality image I don't see why phlebophylla should be ruled out [except based on the assumption that it was a pic of the plant jlf found]. I don't know anything bout the extractions of pure LSA's and related alkaloids, so I can't comment on that. I wish I could remember what that weedy species is meant to be [might be I. indica?] but I'm pretty sure it's one of those used as a purgative in India, and not known to contain the desired alkaloids. Anyway, it would be nice to hear what comes out of the extraction, even if it is illegal [This message has been edited by wira (edited 03 January 2002).] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coin Posted January 4, 2002 little off topic..i was wondering about the constituents of argyreia roots...used in ayurvedic medicine as an aphrodisiac, amongst other things thanks..coin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted January 4, 2002 In case this is not common knowledge- the thais use morning glory leaves in their cooking Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coin Posted January 4, 2002 mmm ipomoea aquatica & ipomoea raptans ..are the edible water convolvulus Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Psilo_smylin Posted January 4, 2002 Thats the way jjf. Originally posted by wira:Psilo, why are you so certain it's not phlebophylla in that pic? True I can't be certain. My assumption is based mainly habit of the plant in the picture (as it appears), and the width of the phyllodes. I've seen several A.phlebophylla seedlings and they appear quite different. n' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest jetson77 Posted January 5, 2002 Has anyone tried to pollinate the MG flowers by hand to get seeds? It works for every type of flower I've tried, it should work for MG too, right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted January 6, 2002 Psilo.... why are you offering seed of an endangered species for sale?? Firstly, the seed would be illegally collected (all mature phlebos are in a National Park or Botanic Garden), and secondly, would it not be more suitable to give the seed to people who have experience with this species (or Acacias in general), rather than trying to profit from the demise of this plant? I have campaigned internationally to get these seeds removed from all seedcatalogs. Only the fact that seed retailers and wholesalers won't buy the seed is going to stop unscrupulous operators from illegally wildharvesting and thus threatening the population even more. About 90% of all mature plants are currently infected with a terminal fungal gall. Only seedlings appear to be free from this disease for the first few years. By depleting the wild seedstock for the sole purpose of your greed there may soon be no young and healthy plants left. On a recent inspection at MT B it was found that virtually none of the mature plants produced seed this year, further burdening this species. While people like you continue to contribute to the demise of this species, SAB has spent in excess of $10,000 and many many hours to try to save it. We started researching and caring for this species long before its endangered status became official, and there are others who have worked on this even before us. Please reconsider your actions and edit the above post. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
