Klin Kava Bioassays...

[Guest Øskorei]

Came across this site in my wanderings... how much of this is shite and how much truth...?

Worried about the St John's Wort interactions in particular...

Quincey, me ol' me ol'... 'tis the bollocks of a dumb-arse closet journo.

You thinhk St john's Wurt might mess with pharns ? or just Kava ? I have been herbalising daily (more nightly, with passiflora & catnip STRONG tea) wth very pronounced effetcs, and JSW about twice a day.

[Torsten]

I had this SJW tincture once which left me buzzing all day. It got so bad I developed anxiety from it after a week even though in those days I had no such problems. However, I can't see a problem with SJW and kava either.

[Guest Øskorei]

Hmm, apologies to all for my lysdexic acronyms. St Jaan's Vort *does* work (or verchk) as a chill-out OTC if taken 3 or 4 times a day over a three month period. Although the SJW might never give you an SSRI zone-out, it appears to be an OTC that's effective for mild mood-swings & wrist-slashing idealsims

As a recreational, weeeeel, sounds like the T was a great lab-rat for hi-po stuff. The outcomes aren't favourable, and I think that this should remain as it is (although a slow-rlease, one per day might be good)

[dqd]

...* flavokawain appears to be responsible for the kava induced skin condition and possibly for some of the physical side effects. Maybe even liver problems. There may be simple ways to eliminate these.

These are just preliminary results. I did not analyse all materials, so some errors may turn up when I get the results back, but the principle is solid.

Here's hoping. Am at the present experiencing these side-effects for the first time... skin drying and cracking/bleeding etc. Just to rule it out I am discontinuing the Klin kava and sticking to Fijiian waka to see if there is any improvement, though I doubt it.

my intuion allways told me don't use milk to prepare kava, so here seems to be proof...

with those findings, one could easely remove, at least partly the unwanted flavokawain!

Could you elaborate please PH? Would there be any benefit in filtering lecithin-prepared kava do you think?

Itchiness!

What I have experienced on this topic is that there are generally two factors involved here. The first is an individuals reaction to kava or the person's raction to a particular Genotype of kava, the second is that generally people who don't regularly partake in Kava or are starting out, often (about 30% of people)get the scratchies. When I first started, I would scratch my head and neck, while others scratch their arms.

Last night I was talking to a Swedish chap who works on Santo Island. He partakes in kava regularly and is the only fellow I have met that finds his sex drive increases with a few (quite a few) shells of kava. He was drinking his favourite substance at a nakamal and noticed himself becoming itchy, he also commented on how strong the kava was. My assumption from this was that the kava most probably contained a kava genotype called "Palis" which is known for this reaction. The meat of this kava is full of flavokawain and is very yellow.

I'm getting low-grade itchiness, though not enough to worry me, though the skin condition is getting annoying/painful. Do you know of anything that helps apart from abstinence?

[planthelper]

as far as i know abstinance is the only thing that cures "double skin".

fijian kava produces double skin aswell, and the severety of the outbreak seems to depend entierly on the ammounts of grog consumed.

i doubt that a methode can be developed which produces grog which doesn't cause double skin, but if flavokavain is more soluble in oils, than in water, surly removing the oil which has to float, would mean to reduce the ammounts of flavokavain.

basicly one would have to find out the solubileties of each constitute, and than take the right action.

another factor might be the temperature of the water, i was told to use cold water, maybe cold water will dissolve less of the wanted actives, but even more so far less of the unwanted ones.

anyway once only, i prepared kava tea, and it was strong, but the taste of it very clearly tried to say to me, using hot water, is stupid or even worse...

Edited July 17, 2007 by planthelper

[dqd]

Thanks for that PH

[Stonehenge]

Seems like a lot of health side effects with using kava. Or is it just the strong varieties like Klin that do it?

[Klin Kava]

Attention all Readers

My distributor has just received a letter from the Australian Department of Health and Ageing.

In this letter it states that the distributor "must be satisfied that the kava will be used soley for medical or scientific purposes".

I guess the good news is that those consumers that have used kava for anxiety, stress, relief from alcoholism, insomnia etc, can ask their doctor for a letter confirming that kava addresses these medical issues.

The distributor will hold these letters on file and review them every 12 months.

The bad news is that if you want a social evening with your friends on kava instead of getting brain damage and liver damage from grog, you can't unless you travel overseas and bring some kava back with you.

This is a small window of hope for those that require kava for medical reasons and Klin Kava will need to insure the rules are followed to keep this door open.

Edited July 17, 2007 by Klin Kava

[Klin Kava]

Here's hoping. Am at the present experiencing these side-effects for the first time... skin drying and cracking/bleeding etc. Just to rule it out I am discontinuing the Klin kava and sticking to Fijiian waka to see if there is any improvement, though I doubt it.

Could you elaborate please PH? Would there be any benefit in filtering lecithin-prepared kava do you think?

I'm getting low-grade itchiness, though not enough to worry me, though the skin condition is getting annoying/painful. Do you know of anything that helps apart from abstinence?

I think the itchiness could be more prevalent with powdered kavas, maybe try some fresh when its available.

[Conan Troutman]

Been using the Instant on and off for a week or so...I have had fair bit of experience with kava or so I thought

Complete numbness in the limbs althought not uncomftable at all, much like n20, lack of hand eye co ordination and am now starting to experience the so called double skin(no where near as fun as histamine....)

once again great product and service...

great synergy with chamomile and lemony stuff

[tuamai]

Kava kauai carries an instant kava mix called Kava Kwik imported from Vanuatu, I emailed them and asked them if it comes from John on Espiritu Santo. They replied it did and so I bought some. Haven't drank any Kava in several years after coming to the realization that an ice cold beer really does taste better after a hard days work. Must say, the instant kava tasted tasted pretty good as is and the effects came on kwik. Not as strong as some kava I've had from Tonga that virtually paralized me physically after drinking about a half gallon. Wide awake mentally, but glued to the couch physically. Hear there's even more potent kava from New Guinea, but the taste is horrors! I Like this Vanuatu kava and will probably (actually just did) buy some more.

[tuamai]

Oh, an on another note, I've never had this itchyness a lot of others are talking about. I've drank kava every day for weeks at a time and never experienced this. I have a lot of Hawaiian friends, but they thought I was a little crazy for liking kava and would much rather drink beer instead. Actually they convinced me that beer was better, but now, after reading all these posts, I'm back on the kava again.

[Conan Troutman]

Oh, an on another note, I've never had this itchyness a lot of others are talking about. I've drank kava every day for weeks at a time and never experienced this. I have a lot of Hawaiian friends, but they thought I was a little crazy for liking kava and would much rather drink beer instead. Actually they convinced me that beer was better, but now, after reading all these posts, I'm back on the kava again.

Never had itchiness either dude till i tried this product (stopped after one day of abstinanace), defently not as heavy as say a Tonga or PnG brew but is more of a mid point between the strong stuff and fiji grade stuff...really nice once again

[Conan Troutman]

Just tried Johns 'concentrated powder' for first time, 45mins after ingestion very nice effects similar to the 'instant' although I think a little more pronounced in the body eg limbs feel more heavy

Torsten what makes you think flavokawain responsible for the skin irritating effects? Only information about it seems to point toward the piperidine alkaloid dihydromethysticine?

Kava dermopathy is most typical in those who consume large amounts of beverage kava over long periods of time. However, there are reports of patients experiencing a kava skin reaction when taking 300 to 800 mg daily of the isolated lactone dihydromethysticin.

SOURCE

one of my my materia medica also makes reference to doses 300mg+ per day being the causation, cant seem to find the article to which they probably both refer... anyhoo gettin hard too type now...so many mistakes

EDIT* was sure i got them all

Edited July 22, 2007 by Conan Troutman

[tuamai]

Hey Conan, got my concentrated kava powder from John via Kava Kauai today. The powder is so fine they recommend putting it in a blender on high for one minute. Haven't heard this technique before. Think it's stronger than the instant especially since you consume everthing in the package. I'm on my 3rd serving and typing is way slow. Think John's gonna be a kava tycoon!

[Conan Troutman]

Hey Conan, got my concentrated kava powder from John via Kava Kauai today. The powder is so fine they recommend putting it in a blender on high for one minute. Haven't heard this technique before. Think it's stronger than the instant especially since you consume everthing in the package. I'm on my 3rd serving and typing is way slow. Think John's gonna be a kava tycoon!

The concentrated powder is top notch, actually cant remember writing that little bit

tuamai try it in a milkshake if your breaking the blender out...glass of milk/water and milo and a stir is enough for me..

[tuamai]

Wow, just read the thread from Klin Kava under Legal Matters from yesterday. Can't believe they're going to make the importation of kava powder to OZ illegal. That completely sucks!!

[tuamai]

The concentrated powder is top notch, actually cant remember writing that little bit

tuamai try it in a milkshake if your breaking the blender out...glass of milk/water and milo and a stir is enough for me..

Missed your this last post Conan, I'm a little kava'd out. Milk? I don't know. Tried the first batch with some fresh ginger thrown in, but I think I like it better straight up!

[Gigage Wahya]

Quincey, me ol' me ol'... 'tis the bollocks of a dumb-arse closet journo.

You thinhk St john's Wurt might mess with pharns ? or just Kava ? I have been herbalising daily (more nightly, with passiflora & catnip STRONG tea) wth very pronounced effetcs, and JSW about twice a day.

I know I am new here but I would suggest reading the References http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/DVH/HerbsRefe...26|Kava,00.html

Having liver disease for about 25 years now, I have had to be on top of these things quite a bit, in my use of herbs etc.

I have had a pound of kava sitting in my kitchen for some years now after the last time I used it .

I had almost the same result the last time I used it as when I last used acetiminiphen.

It was not a good one. I hope it was possibly a poor batch with more than just root material in it but going by the references and studies I did take the time to read I don't believe that link to be

"bollocks of a dumb-arse closet journo" just because.

I would like that if it were true but sadly I don't think it is.

Maybe healthy persons have nothing to worry about. I would guess probably they do not. But those studies are not worthless by a long shot in my opinion. I've found my system to be a pretty good test bed for things I have mistakenly thought was safe to take, going by the reaction I have expereineced. Not very fun but fairly accurate.

Peace

[tuamai]

I know I am new here but I would suggest reading the References http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/DVH/HerbsRefe...26|Kava,00.html

Having liver disease for about 25 years now, I have had to be on top of these things quite a bit, in my use of herbs etc.

I have had a pound of kava sitting in my kitchen for some years now after the last time I used it .

I had almost the same result the last time I used it as when I last used acetiminiphen.

It was not a good one. I hope it was possibly a poor batch with more than just root material in it but going by the references and studies I did take the time to read I don't believe that link to be

"bollocks of a dumb-arse closet journo" just because.

I would like that if it were true but sadly I don't think it is.

Maybe healthy persons have nothing to worry about. I would guess probably they do not. But those studies are not worthless by a long shot in my opinion. I've found my system to be a pretty good test bed for things I have mistakenly thought was safe to take, going by the reaction I have expereineced. Not very fun but fairly accurate.

Peace

Kava's been getting a bad rap for several years now and several countries have banned its use when researches found that some kava products had adverse effects on the liver. Kava has been used as a traditional beverage on Pacific Islands for hundreds if not thousands of years with no reports of liver problems from kava use. Researchers at the University of Hawaii concluded that the tradtional use of Kava by only using the roots produced no ill effects. Many kava suppliments were found to contain leaves and stems from the kava plant and these were found to be the liver damaging agents. So as long as only the kava roots are used, there should be no problems.