Mr Stay Puft Posted June 2, 2007 SWIM made a tea recently. This particular person has a habit of putting lemon in his teas but did not do it this time. Also the subs he used this time were picked extra fresh and dryed quicker, over the course of 3 - 5 days. They did not blue as much on drying as he is used to. Could either of these things be the cause, or do teas usually come out blue? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ENtiTY Posted June 2, 2007 There was a thread not so long ago that delt with dosage methods including tea. The blueing is normal and is due to the oxidisation of psilocin. According to info other members here have posted Ascorbic acid inhibits this. Have a read of these threads, lots of info in there covering your question and heaps more Mushroom Extract? Psylocibe tea vs eating?? Enjoy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Stay Puft Posted June 2, 2007 thanks harry, interesting about the vitamin C reducing oxidisation, would this mean that a tea made with lemon juice in it would contain that little more punch, ie: psilocin un-oxidised? if so i think ill tell my friend that adding the lemon is the way to go! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ENtiTY Posted June 3, 2007 Thats the theory Add some lemon or a vit C tab to protect the goodies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyAmine. Posted June 3, 2007 Becareful, from what I hear its easy to take too much using the ascorbic acid tek the first few times because the dose can be much stronger than expected. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted June 3, 2007 I have always used lemon juice and always found this to be more potent than brews made without it. I put this down to the acidification of the water. With lemon juice the water will not get as dark and there will only be some blueing. However when ascorbic acid was used the difference in effect was rather dramatic. There was also zero blueing [in fact the whole thing went beige]. I don't think there will be a huge difference in effect when making tea from dry material as the fragile molecules would have already degraded. As it is likely that ascorbic will protect the psilocin, but has little effect on the psilocybin content, only species with high psilocin to psilocybin ratios will benefit greatly. For such high psilocin species the difference in effect can be dangerous. I would also like to reiterate that the effect of what is presumably psilocin is different to psilocybin, contrary to everything that has been written about these molecules. I already indicated in the thread about 4-acetoxy-dmt that I did not believe this molecule to be turned into psilocin as the effect was so dramatically different. Now, I am tempted to make the same claim about psilocin. If psilocin is on one end of the scale with it's high spiritual & visual effect and feeling of connectedness, and 4acedmt is on the other end of the scale with it's dopamine & libido driven, egocentric, barely visual nature, then psilocybin lies between these two, somwhere near the middle with a strong leaning towards the psilocin side. But it is not psilocin! This is all hypothesis based on the assumption that ascorbic acid protects psilocin. It would be wise to also do some experiments with ascorbic and dried cubensis [the original material for comparison] to eliminate factors such as increased absorption or the possiblity that ascorbic actually eliminates/precipitates some of the nasties in shrooms. I think I wrote in my original post on this how a thick beige sludge formed after a few hours in the fridge, leaving a clear slightly beige solution. It might be worthwhile to actually sample the sludge by itself . 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Awaken Posted June 3, 2007 Hi all, SWIM told me that he recently conducted an experiment with lemon juice. He ground 2g of dried Psilocybe Cubensis in a coffee grinder and then added it to the juice of 2 squeezed lemons (About 3 shooter glasses full). It greatly increased the ramp up and strength of the journey compared to 2 g ingested in capsules. In fact 2g in lemon had about the same visual effect as 5g in capsule form. However the duration was only 3 hours............He told me that he usually uses 5g in capsules but he would not do this with lemon juice as it would be very strong...........SWIM's girlfriend said that she has a much lower and slower journey on the same amount as SWIM...still she felt the 2g was stronger with lemon juice than it would have been without - she said she took the 2g in lemon juice and about 45 minutes later took another .5g but felt she could definitely have gone higher....mind you she can take 6g in a mushroom soup SWIM swears by and not get a great deal of visuals. Cheers Awaken Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teonanacatl Posted June 3, 2007 an acetyl group and a phosphate goup have radically different polarity, the phosphate is ionic. Could be that the acetyl-psilocin was absorbed at a greatly different place and or rate then the psilocybin, Id place my bets on psilocybin not absorbing so fast and therefore being subjected to enzymatic dephosphorylation, somthing the body is pretty good at. Absorption from a liquid would be much faster then from shrooms, foaf is a chewer and chews them up but people who dont like chewing them report grinding them is just as effective. Precipitation of some shit is possible but could be due to pH. Lots of variables good luck to those who wish to test it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shroomeup Posted June 3, 2007 An interesting thing Ive found is that if the tea is made with just hot tap water it will turn an amazing dark blue within minutes but if boiled water is used there will be pretty much no noticeable blue in the tea and is almost clear. Anyone know why this slight temperature difference would cause this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ENtiTY Posted June 3, 2007 (edited) Don't take this as factual but I think that would be because all the dissolved oxygen in the water has been removed during boiling, not the difference in temp. A good way to test this would be to super heat some water in a microwave using a smooth walled vessel and make some tea out of this. Might be a lil dangerous though. Very interesting revelation there Shroomup. Edited June 3, 2007 by Harry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teonanacatl Posted June 3, 2007 hmm could be right harry, though the dissolved O2 conc in water is fairly low therefore thats some hell extinction coefficient on that blue compound. Microwave extractions are ok safe providing the container is tough enough Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ENtiTY Posted June 3, 2007 Yeah, thinking the same thing. As for the microwave extraction, I was actually talking about using the microwave to heat the water to a point past boiling without it actually boiling, then adding the shroom material. Dangerous part being as soon as there is a neucleating point added, very very hot water will super boil. Ahh, wouldn't work. Can't add the material before nuking for obvious reasons and can add them after without the water boiling and corrupting the results. Pitty Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shroomeup Posted June 4, 2007 Thanks Harry I think your wright. That makes perfect sense now I think about it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teonanacatl Posted June 19, 2007 I would also like to reiterate that the effect of what is presumably psilocin is different to psilocybin, contrary to everything that has been written about these molecules. I already indicated in the thread about 4-acetoxy-dmt that I did not believe this molecule to be turned into psilocin as the effect was so dramatically different. Now, I am tempted to make the same claim about psilocin. If psilocin is on one end of the scale with it's high spiritual & visual effect and feeling of connectedness, and 4acedmt is on the other end of the scale with it's dopamine & libido driven, egocentric, barely visual nature, then psilocybin lies between these two, somwhere near the middle with a strong leaning towards the psilocin side. But it is not psilocin! lol was thinking about this and i realised "oh dickhead teo" phosphates are way more easily hydrolysed then acetyls in the body, and in the case of psilocybin it would ahve to be as that phosphate is was to ionic to cross any membranes (unless pumped). In the case of the acetyl derivative you took the acetyl would have been on long enough for it to cross bbb. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tonic Posted July 17, 2007 (edited) A foaf I have conversed with from overseas tried a tea which consisted 6 grams dried [cubes], 1 whole lemon [juice] and a few cups full of water and was cooked until reduced to about 1 cup. Foaf experienced the most most visual and intense trip ever experienced. Truly amazing experience I am told, very powerful. The onset was around 20 mins and the peak which lasted around 1 and a half to two hours started between 45-60 mins of ingestion. The effects lasted many hours after that. It would seem that the effects are greatly potentiated by the addition of lemon juice. The tea did not blue at all an infact was a light brown-beige clouration. Easy to drink too with the addition of a tablespoon of honey apparently. Mind blowing Edited July 17, 2007 by Phosphene_Dream Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hyphal Posted July 17, 2007 Phosphene - if your friend saw no blue then this is a good sign of an efficient extraction - the darker blue = the more evidence of oxidation and in turn = degradation of the goodies. This could also be a contributing factor in the potency of this brew (plus 6g!! Hooly Dooly....) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philistine Posted July 17, 2007 Microwaves? Blue coloured? Chemical extraction? words with more than 3 syllables? For best results, crawl around on all fours, like an animal and eat them straight off the the ground... not strong enough? then eat more! Shrooms are natures gifts - free, natural and special! just eat them! Sorry guys.... carry on Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tonic Posted July 17, 2007 If they are grown indoors [which these ones were, or so I hear], your method does not exactly work philistine LOL I like your style though. Hyphal it seemed to be a very pure and clean exactraction. The 6 grams may have been a little over the top, but from what my foaf tells me this dosage will be tried again, with a view to upping the dosage , some people are just crazy I guess. This foaf also told me that some very valuable lessons were taught through this powerful teacher. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Griffin... Posted January 18, 2008 Found an interesting insight regarding the blueing reaction and action of ascorbic acid. IMO, oxidised psilocin (dimeric quinone, inactive) could potentially be reduced to an active monomeric, phenolic psilocin derivative by ascorbic acid. FUNGAL METABOLISM-IV. THE OXIDATION OF PSlLOCIN BY p-DIPHENOL OXIDASE (LACCASE) (Received 14 April 1967) FUNGAL_METABOLISM_IV._p_diphenol_oxidase.pdf Abstract-The oxidation of psilocin catalysed by p-diphenol oxidase has been studied... QUOTE: "The blue product formed during the oxidation of psilocin was found to be readily reduced to a colourless (straw coloured in concentrated solution) product by ascorbic acid or sodium dithionite, and is thus probably quinonoid in nature. Studies previously reported of the oxidation of phenols such 2,6-dimethoxyphenol and 2,6-dimethylphenol have shown that dimeric quinones are obtained as products, these quinones were readily reduced by ascorbic acid or sodium dithionite." FUNGAL_METABOLISM_IV._p_diphenol_oxidase.pdf FUNGAL_METABOLISM_IV._p_diphenol_oxidase.pdf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
