New process generates hydrogen from aluminum alloy to run engines, fuel cells

[Torsten]

the new vehicle mounted H2 tanks are made from composite materials. This makes them stronger and leakproof.

[reshroomED]

the new vehicle mounted H2 tanks are made from composite materials. This makes them stronger and leakproof.

I can see strengthening via new materials, but how do you keep something so small contained?

Could you elaborate on the leak-proof side of things please?

ed

[Torsten]

my physical chem sucks, but I think it is not just hydrogen's size, but it's ionic character that allows it to be highly soluble in metals. That would apply to metals only though and I there are various methods using Silicon dioxide, nitrogen or titanium that are currently used to deal with this problem.

Also, why is diffusion a problem? In some metals it will cause brittleness, but not in all. For diffusion to be a danger you would need to achieve concentrations of over 5% in the ambient air before it becomes flammable. Maybe that loss just needs to be taken into consideration for all calculations.

Then again, look at how far hydrogen based battery technology has come in the last 20 years thanks to the commercial pressures put on the sector by computer and mobile phone companies. I remember lugging around a 'mobile' phone attached to a battery the size of a small car battery and was only getting about 15 minutes talk time. Now you could get that performance from a button battery.

Solid storage of hydrogen would be far safer, but also increases transport weight. It would do away with requiring pressure equipment and would make it all a whole lot safer though.

[devance]

As with a high energy society such products are concentrated like gasoline,

As far as hydrogen the problem is under high pressure it can move by osmosis through the walls of containment tank and slowly create rips.

Being the smallest atom.

A better containment system would be some sort of mylared aerogel thats electrified [static charge]and so no migration of the hydrogen atoms.

Being pressurised if escaping the hydogen gas would lower the temperture increasing the eletrostatic to contain a hydrogen fuel tank from slow leaking problems.

[devance]

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=65151

'Is the electron a photon with toroidal topology'

The Hydrogen Molecule and the Reality-Based Covalent Bond.

----------------------------------------------------------

Since we are talking about hydrogen.

My idea is the pulsations are time pulsations.

I suck too on physic but more than convinced that unappreciated fields occur.

It took 25 years to link current in wire to electomagnetic force and was only noticed when a compass was luckly near during a university lecture.

[teonanacatl]

Can somone explain why they dont use insitu electrolysis of water to produce the H2 and O2 required, its got to be the best way and could be made a closed cycle. Can electrolyse water to H2 and O2 using photoanodes, then combust them for power, cells capable of this are 12% efficient though. So you would probably still need a battery for night time use but majority energy come from sun and could recharge battery from sun. This would void the need for hydrogen stations and remove any suppy and demand of H2.

[elzar]

spot on Teo. further one could have excess cells and be able to charge them to make up for the loss of energy through the process. (electrolysis and heat losses etc) there is no reason why there cant be an altinator and yes parking your car in the sun would then also be a good thing. Would you also be better off parking your car under street lights.

The reason that it does not happen is that there is not nearly enough consumables sold in this process. It is bad for the economy and many petrol station attendants would lose jobs.

The only way that this will become a reality is that if a large number of like minded people get together and make it happen.

[Torsten]

in situ generation requires in situ power generation or it will still have the problem of line loss. Sure, the final goal should be in situ generation, but at the moment I think the expense and maintenance would be prohibitive.

[John Smith]

Yeah the insitu generation almost sounds like the perpetual motion scenario. Without knowing the maths, it seems hard to believe that PV cells on a vehicle could generate enough electricity to produce enough hydrogen to presumably burn in an internal combustion engine (?) to propel said vehicle (even with some battery assistance)

EDIT: Sorry, just realised you said "photanodes". Don't know what they are but the concept still sounds hard to believe...

Edited June 15, 2007 by Mr Spock

[teonanacatl]

photo anodes cause electrolysis of H2O to H2 and O2, and they use light. Most effective one we discussed in class was 12% efficient which is pretty good.

I guess the principle is both solar and hydrogen powered, store solar power in battery and use that energy to electrolyse water and maybe even run car, energy from combustion of H2 goes to power car, water formed gets recycled. There is no breaking of thermodynamic laws.

[devance]

My new investigations.

Torsion Fields

http://amasci.com/freenrg/tors/

http://www.rialian.com/rnboyd/physics.htm