Best time to take cuttings

[Coschi]

Hey, found a huge brug today! Flowering

When would be the best time to take cuttings?

Is this the same for all brugs?

When does brug flowering finish? Melbourne weather..

[XipeTotec]

Hey, found a huge brug today! Flowering

When would be the best time to take cuttings?

Is this the same for all brugs?

When does brug flowering finish? Melbourne weather..

i got given the crappiest cutting u have ever seen

(about 1.5 cm thick) the other week, no, or withered leaves, shoved it a pot, and it seems to ok, it has sprouted a single leaf, i suspect it will live.

Edited May 1, 2007 by shroomytoonos

[Ace]

I dont think it really matters with brugs, but I'd imagine Spring/Summer would be best. I took a few cuttings (about 15cms long, large leaves removed, small leaves cut down to prevent moisture loss) from my grandparents' house over the Easter weekend, stuck them in a glass of water and put in a well lit area indoors. Within about a fortnight they had little roots ready to go. I potted them up over the weekend just gone and they seem pretty content atm.

I've done smaller cuttings straight into soil - took ok, but seem to have snuffed it in the cooler weather down my way

Dont think you'll have any probs at all Sphinx Just keep em away from the cold (perticularly frosts) and you'll be fine

[Coschi]

good good

this was a nice white flower brug, the one with curvy flower ends.. i'll find a pic

mmm purdy

I still really want to take cuttings of this big brug sanguinea i found but they never take root

will get it happening..

so now wouldn't be the best time to take cuttings then? bummer

i'm very impatient

[XipeTotec]

i think now would be fine, like i said, i got one only 2 weeks ago, and ace got some at easter....

Edited May 1, 2007 by shroomytoonos

[shruman]

Have a crack it cant hurt, put it in a window sill if ur worried.

All except sanguinea are easy to root.

[Ace]

As written above - give it a crack No harm in trying, and the mother plants are usually hard as hell to kill (or so my grandmother tells me ) so you wont be causing much damage. Perhaps use a razor or a sharp pair of snips and both the cuttings and mother will be happier

[Coschi]

re: shruman (sanguinea)

Yeah NO SHIT sorry man

hehe

why the hell is that the case? I tried so many times with so many cuttings in many many ways and they all died! and those little buggery red mites were everywhere!

hold on.. i asked dse person about this a while ago (no not dick smith electronics)..

ARGH CRAP i think i deleted the email...

basically he suggested to strip the bark off the lower inch of the cutting and use rooting hormone, place in water, maybe some straight in soil... hmm

any idea how to get this one to root shruman? anyone?

ace, yeah i'll give it a shot asap in that case but i still really want the sanguinea to grow also

Edited May 1, 2007 by Sphinx

[shruman]

Ive heard taking cuttings from suckers at the base will work better than normal cuts even better if theyve been touching the dirt or have roots or rootbuds already.

Bottom heat & humidity wouldnt hurt I think.

[Ace]

Perhaps try a bit of Layering or Air Layering if they are a bit tricky? Have a google search on the methods, but they basically involve stipping the outter layer of bark (probably what the Dick Smith bloke said) and covering in soil to force rooting.

[Vertmorpheus]

A largeish brug will yield more than enough bits n pieces for some trial and error, but I've worked out the following things...

Just about anything takes a little better if its either not flowering or just abotu to flower...kinda spent after flowering.

I've tried cuttings of the same kinda brug a lot of ways, the best method for me now is to spot the second season's wood (so not the sappy green shit, not the old woody stuff, but the young woody stuff with some older wood at its base) and just snap the bit you want downwards... this came to mainly by trial and error, but I remember reading a couple things (no idea where now) about how spooky users of stramoniums in Europe wouldn't cut them with metal and that the shamans of SA were sometimes known to keep brugs etc more out of dedication than actual usefulness, and they wouldnt cut with metals either. Certainly those i've taken with secateurs, blades etc tend to take but seem to take a lot longer, whereas a nice "heel" cutting, or snapping, stuck into some cocopeat and kept moist will take 9 times out of 10, no hormone needed (few things really need hormone to take).

I start mine outside, on a northfacing wall in black squat pots in full sun for most of the day, and they just take.

As long as you get the snapped rough bit and maybe another couple of nodes under the mix, and have some nice sites up top for new growth to spit from (I ditch tips and just grow out from midstock) they crank. Let the coco dry out a lil between waterings but then water it quickly but gently so a cap of water forms and then drops thru the mix all at once, forcing new oxygen into the mix. When new growth buds start to form, use kelp mix at fairly low strength (half what it says on the bottle usually) to water , every other watering. Increase strength as leaf size increases, but decrease frequency to help harden them off (too many plants are overindulged as bubs, making them showy and fragile as they get older). Then you get whats in the pics. You can pull one of those out of its little home, leave a little coco around the roots, stick it in a bag and mail it to anywhere in the country and it'll just take (from all reports).

Spidermites are fucked, but they're symptomatic rather than problematic...too much N in relation to relative humidity has somethign to do with it, as does leaving foliage wet overnight, and having too many broadleafed things in one place esp solanums and fabaceae for some reason.Pyrethrum and white oil will nail them, then fiddle with the growing environment a bit if you can..look into whether you are being too cruel or too kind to them I guess.

Brugs are bewdiful , but metels are magical..... :D

GD

btw that's one of the metels I rescued for 5 bucks from Perrots in Brisbane, woohoo, the triple yellow is great too but tends to revert to doubles for some reason.

edit...no trials with the sanguinea yet, feel free to mail me a few bits n pieces and I'll try my luck with em tho :D Maybe kelpmix the hell out of a specimen, then knocking the tips off after a week or so of extra loving, waiting a little while andthen taking midstem cuts from the upper sections, trying to catch a little of that meristematic magic? Anyone tried grafting onto a basic, tough variety? or pruning a larger specimen back to fairly near ground level, waiting til it "coppices" back up a bit and then mounding some friendly soil further up the stems, PAST the prune level, kind of a large scale air layer...seen it done with a few woody herbs.

Edited May 1, 2007 by greendreams

[Benzito]

I would have to agree with everything greendreams said. Dude knows his bruggies.

If you actually 'cut' the cutting, it seems to take alot longer to take off than if you snap it off downwards. I put this down to increased surface area for root growth, but who knows. I'd never heard of the shamans recommending this, just something I observed.

It's also best to go for 1-2 year old growth, nothing older, nothing younger. They will take almost any time of the year like every1 said, but as GD said, just after flowering will be least successful.

Try to make the cutting well over 6" long too.

Good luck.

edit: my method: Snap off small branch, pick off all the larger leaves, leaving new shoots only. Dip snapped end into rooting hormone, stick in pot of soil. Water daily, or as needed. Watch it start growing within 2 weeks!

Edited May 4, 2007 by Benzito

[indigo264nm]

I've worked with these babies a bit... all I can say is some of what greendreams said - healed cuttings are the shiz, you can grow roots in water before transplanting into potting mix, take when not in flower. I nurseries I've heard that they (depending on climate) often strike in pure crushed quartz without any peat to prevent any risk of fungal infection. I took a 20cm healed cutting about 6 months ago to grow as a standard (plant with one main trunk with no foliage until a top canopy type thing...bare with my valiumed out descriptions) and it's already trying to flower although I picked the buds off.

Pretty much the easiest ethno to propagate besides from sceletium.

[Coschi]

well all sounds very promising except the main brug i'm trying to grow is sanguinea

i took a few cuttings on the weekend, see what happens

when would these guys seed do you think? and where are the seeds?

[Vertmorpheus]

It may be that as all my brug stock comes from one mother, might be messing with pollination but I've never actually had seeds form up even after a bit of tickling of those lovely blooms, works fine on my metel and tabacum in the past but no go with the brugs... in some brug flowers you acn see small (1-3mm) holes about two inches down from the base of the flower, this is where cutter wasps etc have gotten in there and raided the nectar without botheringto wobble those stamens etc, bastards.maybe they're one of those things tthat've been grown out from cuts for that long that they've kinda forgotten about seeding. IF one seeded it could happen anytime after onset of flowering, so certiainly by this time of year there should be some, if there's gonna be any.

Good luck with your sang cuts,maybe try leaving a couple thicker ones to kind of "callous off" like plumeria cuts. Might be they prefer a sappy tip cutting rather than the woody sticks preferred for white brugs etc.

Either way they're all stunners

GD

[t st tantra]

brugs can be divided into 2 groups......

one group is sanguinea,arborea and vulcanicola.......its crosses are called xflava or flava.

all plants in this group can be crossed together but rarely will they strike as cuttings.

if you have access to a plant ,suckers or layering is the go.....but is slow to happen.

all the rest are in the other group and they usually cross together,crosses can be called,xcandida or candida.these usually grow from cuttings.

all my pollenations seem to have been by hand,the bees just steal the pollen!

on average 100 hand pollenations for one pod.

but some plants can take at about 50% under the right conditions,like now it seems.

t s t .

[Coschi]

Thanks!

I've read about layering.. seems like an option but the tree is nowhere near where i live so perhaps it's not a viable option... (could just give it a shot though...)

suckers... i'll have read

[indigo264nm]

In regards to pests, maybe keep in the pot raised above the ground and away from other plants whilst it's young. These things seem to be delicious to insects, and I when my first Brug was young it pretty much got all the foliage eaten off before I started spraying. The leaf eating lady beetles aren't too bad, just leave like a windowpaining (or lots of tiny holes) effect on the foliage - what you really need to watch out for is the catapillers, loopers (especially because they are so well camoflaged on the bottom of the leaves that their easy to miss) and snails\slugs. Pretty sure these things get aphids as well but I've managed to keep em clean of them. Now that it's cooling down you should be fine with lady beetles and the solancae beetles - but keep your eye out for the crawlers and the snails or a young plant can be stripped bare within days.

[Vertmorpheus]

I wonder about just how much fun one bug really needs to have... I've seen a big juicy caterpillar munch its way thru almost a whole brug leaf, that'd be like me munching a car boot full, woohoooooo THUMP twitch twitch.

Derris stops the munchies fairly well but doesn't look real pretty, pyrethrum rocks but I find if once every couple of weeks I water the leaves with a fairly weak molasses solution they don't get eaten nearly as much. fake ladybeetles will seem to munch blackberry nightshade for preference over brugs, daturas and tomatos, so I leave plenty of them growing around. Airflow, as ya said, but then there is something to be said for having plant outlines a bit blurred thru tucking in and nestling as well. Whatever works for the case at hand really. There is Confidor etc as well, but thats all a bit shifty for things that are meant to be healers. My solution was to just grow a few more brugs haha, mainly like the flowers anyway so I can give the odd leaf to a crawlie.

The air layering thing is a decent idea , so long as you can get a good 5 mins to tie a couple packs on properly, nice and sealed at the bottom but a touch more open at the top, you should be in the clear, maybe find some plastic bag material or similar that is kind of the same as the bark on the tree to keep people from noticing if that's a worry. Or just ask the owners if you can pinch a few bits or layer a few bits in return for a few bucks or some of your plants, people are usually just happy someone appreciates their plants IME. Or they might let the dogs out too. Let us know how you get on lol.

They're hardly rare plants, local nurseries should be able to sort you out with a few in no time, usually under 10 bucks for small ones if you don't want to play monkeyman with bits of plastic and tape 10 feet off the ground. If there are low-starting water shoots maybe you could sneaky in and mound the soil up it after giving the base of it a little scrape with the toe of your shoe or whatever .... come back next season with something to grub it up with and that "mission from God" expression essential to plant-napping.

[indigo264nm]

Here are the creepycrawlies I'm talking about - they're known as loopers and they differ from catapillers in the way that when they crawl their middle arches up. They range from a cm to about 5cm long, the smaller they are the easier they are to miss since they are usually found on the undersides of leaves, sitting on veins and pretty much completely camoflaged.

So whenever you the leaves getting munched away just check (VERY CAREFULLY because they are so easy to miss) the undersides of all the leaves and hand remove them - I've even got my girlfriend picking them off whenever she goes and has a ciggie outside. It's much better than using pesticides when you don't need to as it's not exactly a mealy bug infestation or something. If you are going to use a pesticide (because it will die otherwise) I suggest applying a systemic such as Rogor only once which floats around in the plant for a few weeks killing anything that tries to eat it, not natural as pyrethrum but you'll only need one application and the pests have less of a chance of becoming resistant to it.

[Coschi]

My foaf from the cannabis thread knows these guys too well

THEY POO'D ALL INSIDE SOME OF HIS BUDS!!!!

and eggs also

AND

one ate half my basil plant!!!!

[Ace]

THEY POO'D ALL INSIDE SOME OF HIS BUDS!!!!

and eggs also

Just thinkin - Sphinx, caterpillars dont lay eggs - thats what the butterflies/moths do! I'd say its just a bit of doo-doo

[Coschi]

Some are little black poop looking things..

others are white and more round ...

what ye think? i'll get some pics

[Maturin]

Here are the creepycrawlies I'm talking about - they're known as loopers and they differ from catapillers in the way that when they crawl their middle arches up.

Those little crawlies absolutely devastated my Atropa Belldonna. The strange thing for me was, I only ever seemed to find one at a time on the plant...I'd kill it, and then check a day or two later and I'd find another! My plant lives in a pot, sitting on a small paved courtyard...not really a garden situation at all. I can't seem to work out where they come from?

[Vertmorpheus]

If you're not looking for them exactly they tend to just look like a rolled leaf edge. Most suspect, soft bodied things get around at night, maybe you could sit up with a baseball bat and wait for it? There's all kinds of dusts and granules you can get to stop crawlies crawling into your plants. They can hang out anywhere from a crack in cool cement to the underside of pot rims, anywhere out of the way from birds and ants. I've had a few things nailed from these, it'd be ok if they just ate one whole leaf rather than eating a few big chomps out of every leaf... they think it's sizzler. Certainly seem to like the solanums etc but they're pretty big on my coleys too. Anything with that velvety foliage it seems. Have you read the very hungry caterpillar? terrifying from a horticultural perspective lol. Poo from these things (that as ya rightly said, are not pillars at all) tends to roll and then get stuck so shows up in leaf axials , around the stem etc like tiny chocolate sprinkles (mmmm chocolate).

Encouraging birds around your place will help with bugs. But then if they're like the ones here they will start knocking off tomatos, so its all a trade off.

Confidor etc have the advantage of that persistant protection but immediately acting and then quicly degrading things have the advantage that you can only ever nail so many bugs with them at once.. leaving a few "baddies" gives the good guys something to live off. Orchardists etc in France have treated trees or rows in an alternate fashion for years to give the bugs time to kind of even out to a happy medium. Confidor is a fairly solid product though, doesn't seem to make anyone too sick (yet).. we changed over to something called Crown a while ago, ridiculously strong like .75 of a ml to 10 litres, don't need much of coverage... vs the crown nursery, about 300 bucks a tiny bottle, but needed like 2ml for the same amount. The crown killed everything in short order and for longer than the confidor. But you can get confidor in those aerosol cans from woolies, advantage if you don't need a lot of it.Things get resistant to either after as little as three or four sequential treatments (the stink bug shield beetle tribe especially) and both seem to result in more dead lizards etc than pyrethrum, which doesn't entirely make sense but it's just how it seems. If you make either up from a concentrate , take the time to add some wetting agent, makes it a lot more efficient and you make each tank last up to twice as long without much trying.Not on real hot days though. Then there's Supracide and other OP's...mmmm...I love the smell of dead microorganisms in the morning...

A message from the people that brought you "cancer in a can"

GD