Marijuana, A harmless drug ?

[Greeny]

It is true that anybody can grow Marijuana but by that token anybody can grow tobacco and brew alchohol that doesn't stop most people buying it from the stores most people can't be bothered growing or brewing their poison of choice it is only because it isn't legal that people grow marijuana with such enthusiasm.

[shruman]

As is mentioned in the two previous posts effectively u cant grow ur own tobacco.

cannabis cultivation can almost be as easy as throwing a hanful of seed, it is a very low maintainence crop (a lot easier then brewing beer).

If i could legaly grow cannabis I would for a range of reasons & I believe a lot of people would

u can buy tomatoes at the supermarket but loads of people grow there own for a variety of reasons.

[gomaos]

It is true that anybody can grow Marijuana but by that token anybody can grow tobacco and brew alchohol that doesn't stop most people buying it from the stores

yep.

have grown tobacco when it was still legal and i was still smokin, but never got the curing thing right and it tasted gross.

Made my own beer when I was still drinking heaps, was very bad because I drank way too much.

When I lived in Holland I grew my own Cannabis.

it was just as good or better than what you could buy.

[FungalFractoids]

You can if u have proper permits but this is a mute point.

Not anymore, the government doesn't give out permits and all Aus grown tobacco has been ripped up. All tobacco is now imported from China.

And, as for being harmless, I pointed out in another thread that cannabis smoke contains carcinogens like benzopyrene in higher concentrations than tobacco smoke. Smoking anything is far from harmless.

[KlUe]

this would be the first time I ever heard of someone developing psychosis from one joint but I could see how it is possible.

I didn't mention one joint, but it was a few times, and he developed a severe case of schizophrenia. To the degree that at one point he was preparing to jump off a cliff because he believed he could fly. Another time he was running around his house naked and had covered his body in green paint.

It is so sad to see someone so nice as this guy to have this happen to.

There has been mental illness in his family so I believe that explains his onset, however as I mentioned before, it was only a few times that caused it.

[Conan Troutman]

prohibition doesnt work

The general consesus today is that cananbis is more a key that unlocks the door too the schizophrenia, where the person would have likely developed symptoms at some stage in life.

Also most drug experimentation starts in late teens, 16-20yo, also the time people are at a greatly increased risk of developing schizophrenia.

[komodo]

prohibition doesnt work

The general consesus today is that cananbis is more a key that unlocks the door too the schizophrenia, where the person would have likely developed symptoms at some stage in life.

Also most drug experimentation starts in late teens, 16-20yo, also the time people are at a greatly increased risk of developing schizophrenia.

there has been a great deal of clinical and statistical research on the link between schizophrenia and marijuana use. it is clear that in a gene pool where schizophrenia and related mental disorders are present, the risk of marijuana-induced psychosis is much higher. if you know someone who feel intensely anti-social, paranoid or spiritually damaged when they get stoned they might well be at risk.

having dealt with this issue myself, risk factors present and still been a (sometimes heavy) user for the best part of 15 years, i think its a complicated web of neurochemical response to the drug and a very real sensitivity to our conflicted human condition.

ideally, the elevated risk group of users should be aided to identify themselves as such, and exercise due caution in terms of use/dose/quality (hydros are not so wise) and environment (be comfortable).

its quite a strong herb, and gets treated a little casually considering the impact it can have on lifestyles. but hey i still enjoy it from time to time

[foolsbreath]

Decriminalize/Legalize it!

It does have some problems attached to it, and the obvious is the schizophrenia, I too have had friends go down that path, but something I noticed, with both of them is that they got erratic before they tried, sure they became full blown soon after trying it, but what made them take up smoking it with a new bunch of friends in the first place, cause they didn't do it with us? IMO it was the onset of schizophrenia that caused them to try weed, as they would not have tried it as the people I knew.

I don't know if there is anything that will stop schizophrenia appearing in these people, but love and support to minimise the considerable discomfort they go through.

Alcohol is like a food - it has calories and some beverages even have nutritional value. So alchole can fuel the body and provide energy. If you have a few drinks and then get up on the dance floor you are using the energy alchole has provided.

Alcohol can be very destructive, but Western medicine recognises that, unlike the other substances of abuse, there are health benefits associated with moderate alcohol use ( Frishman et al. 2003 ). Illicit drugs, however have no calories and no nutritional value. If you take ecstasy and dance all night, the energy is drawn from your own inner store and there will be a price to pay later. With drugs it is literally all 'smoke and mirrors' - they force action but do not support it.

This is untrue. When alcohol is consumed, the body preferentially burns alcohol over sugar, the sugar is stored as fat and unburnt as your body expends all its energy trying to remove the alcohol from your system in the conversion to aldehyde, which is the reason for the beer gut!

Secondly when I used to attend raves/dance parties, I used to take plenty of fruit and something sweet, heaps of people did, don't see that at the pub! The harder drug users I know also don't like weed, some have never tried it, so I don't believe the gate way theory, I'd say peer pressure would usually be the killer there

If people have a problem with addiction to cannabis, frankly they will have a worse problem with anything else, personally I don't. I think the biggest part of the addiction is just a fear, once you stop the side effects are minimal, one night of reduced sleep, maybe two at the worst, and if you frame your mind right and organize something to do for that time it can be more fun than anything else!

Everything in moderation, including moderation!

[Korky]

" if we are going to consider nature to be legitamite then scheduling a plant is entirely ridiculous" TMc Kenna.

honest education.

[Ace]

legalise. the positives of use as a medicine, fibre, oil, etc totally outweigh the negatives. but then again I've never come in contact with someone with schizophrenia.... perhaps that would change my outlook. either way, at least increase its use as hemp - to waste this resource is beyond ridiculous... running out of fossil fuels when we could easily be using hemp seed oil... why not use what 'god' gave us?

[liftyourskinnyfists]

I think the debate on if cannabis can/is harmful is besides the point. The bottom line is anything can be addicting. This has to be true in a world in which sadism and masochism can exist and both weild pleasure for the practitioner. It comes down to how people form relationships or associations with the things in the world around them. Look at all the people who cutters or are anorexic.

Also remember that anything even water can be a poison and that dosage, as it applies to each individual, is everything.

"everything is poison, nothing is poison" -paracelsus

Remember too that the if you remove all the problems brought on by prohibition, you end up with an issue in which only the user is hurt or affected (usually). And that prohibition is an imposibility, even Thailands extremley draconian laws weren't able to stop drug use when thousands (if i remember correctly) were murdered by their own government. Prohibition is unattanable, but even if it was possible, at what cost?

Then of course you have to address issues of various freedoms; what are our rights to use plants/substances, to privacy, to religion?

Shouldn't we have these rights and don't they come in conflict with prohibition? The US government sure thought so when they allowed the Christian chuch to have their wine during the alcohol prohibition disaster that occured from 1920-1933, or when the state of Alaska decided that cannabis prohibition was not a reason to invade a persons privacy by entering their home (4th amendment). It's strange that that protection hasn't been extended to the rastafarians when they partake in their sacrement. That seems a bit ethnocentric to me. Who are they to even judge what constitutes a religious practice and what doesn't? Or is the sense of wonder and mystical oneness that I receive on hashish or mushrooms any less valid than any other religious experience? My point is anything at all can be a religion or religion-esque, and all that should matter is that the individual finds something important or meaningful from the experience. Shit, in the US we let people drink strychnine and dance with poisonous snakes in the name of religion. We look up to daredevils, stuntman, and rock climers, but somehow we are suppose to believe that these prohibited substances are too dangerous? On what grounds.

Even if Cannabis can be harmful at times why do we make an exception for tobacco and alcohol? Or how is the drug dealer any different than the people running those industries (I bet they drive a better car) when he tries to survive by selling drugs.

Aren't those in the prison industry or in credit card companies profiting off of the pain of others? How is that any different from the man who sells crack.

I don't know all the answers (no one does), but I do know that nothing is inherently good or evil, and that their is a lot of hypocrasy and double standards in the world; something that we, most of all, should be able to see. Prohibition has hurt many more people than the actual drug usage ever has. It's not to my knowledge been shown to decrease consumption. Prohibition is the true enslaver, and its made the very people who don't need more money richer. And I wont even get into the cost (as in money) of prohibition, and on aids (dirty needles), overdose, impurities, violence (look at fucking Columbia). I'm sure everyones heard all that before and is ready for me to end rap it up. Everyones entitled to their opinion, but for me its a no-brainer. Fuck Prohibition.

Sorry if this is all jumbled. I just wrote what I felt without thinking about structure or how it flowed together.

peace

Edited February 12, 2007 by liftyourskinnyfists

[psilosophical]

Cannabis can be eaten. Sure it can damage your lungs as smoking anything can, but its not the only way to do it, and anyone concerned for there lungs can eat it, or vape it which is a lot less harmful than smoking, and more effective.

Alcohol i know for a fact can trigger mental illness, and in a close friend of mine i know it does when cannabis doesn't. I don't know how the government can use that as an argument. It's ridiculous.

Think of all the medications people are put on today, i know so many people on diazepam, which is physically addictive, when I'm sure they have no physiological problems. One person even went to the dr. because they were quitting heavy cannabis use, and yep, they got prescribed diazepam.

I think one of the big problems in todays society is people are not taught enough about their minds and how to use them, or they are simply lazy and don't want to know. I used cannabis daily very heavily (on average 1/2 oz/week hydro) for a couple of years and stopped it all at once, never to smoke again for probably 2-3 months. I only have it occasionally now. The point is people just want something to fall back on and fix everything when shit goes pear-shaped and basically i would prefer it to be solutions like psychedelics rather than band-aid cover ups that are so common.

I guess my train of thought went a little off the rails there

Edited February 13, 2007 by freedom

[komodo]

I don't know how the government can use that as an argument. It's ridiculous.

well, they can! i mean, its all very well for psychonauts to feel righteous indignation about it, given how much information we have at hand... for most VOTERS, drugs are very scary. sure the government/churches set it up like this but its pretty ingrained now.

so you get a story about a kid who smoked pot and now is in and out of psychiatric hospital all their life. attempts suicide sometimes, no hope of a white picket fence and 2.4 kids. goes front page. the kid actually did get fucked up by pot, it really does happen. now whether or not this is going to happen more or less with legalisation doesnt enter the equation for them... young boy gets stoned, goes crazy, ruins happy family life future, pot is dangerous. simple.

if we want legalisation, perhaps the most effective approach isnt to question that drugs are dangerous and harmful, and try to win a losing battle there, but to make that a case for management by health authorities, rather than criminal law?

[Auntyjack]

egalisation doesnt enter the equation for them... young boy gets stoned, goes crazy, ruins happy family life future, pot is dangerous. simple.

if we want legalisation, perhaps the most effective approach isnt to question that drugs are dangerous and harmful, and try to win a losing battle there, but to make that a case for management by health authorities, rather than criminal law?

I agree....make the case and get some weight behind it.

Remember that old saying...'that guy could sell water?', well now he's laughing all the way to the bank.

Maybe the focus is in the wrong area.

Aj

[Coschi]

Ok..

Smoke pot, its great seriously it is, get together with your mates at a party. someone rolls a big spliff and your night is set from then on. pot in my opinion is a beautiful drug, chilling on the beach half drunk (or at the espy plastered) and smoke that joint is just one of the best ways one could ever relax. i find it to have an amazing synergy with mushrooms also...

All that side of it is good, great in fact and should never be disallowed

...

But there is a real danger of 'stonerism'. Like myself, i'm sure many of you have fallen into this way before. For me, age 16 we used to smoke and play soccer, great fun, etc... two years later i'm smoking an ounce a month, just coming home from work and smoking joint after joint. The 'dumbening' factor is way up there, memory starts turning shit, mood swings, etc... i'm sure the most susceptiple to this are people with addictive personalities, of which i most certainly am one. Before long, there were basically none of the above mentioned moments and all just sitting around with mates who wouldn't be your friend unless you had something to offer them, stoners.

This is a real danger of pot, maybe its because parents and piers push and push you away from it so you just go for it, not sure, maybe just personality, but i see it happening to a lot of people and very few seem to learn the lesson of respect - respect the drug, respect yourself

Ps: i'm at work so didn't have time to read this whole thread, if anyone said basically the same thing then excuse the double post