Closest to true freedom

[Auntyjack]

Hey guys and gals,

...just a quick curiosity, where do you thing the least regulated location/state/country on earth is?

(not including international waters...)

..note to self: 'got to stop reading legal matters forum...just too damm depressing!

what do you think?

AJ

Hope it's not posted before...search is down.

[Jesus On Peyote]

Probably Holland? or some third world countries where they dont have much of a police,but that wouldent be very safe.

IMO, true freedom is within yourself.

Dont let "the man" get you down or frighten you, Regulate yourself and then you win back some of your most important freedoms.

[nabraxas]

The Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) of Pakistan, particularly Darra Bazzar---lots ov guns & lots ov drugs all avaialable to anyone ready to pay enough.

[gomaos]

hmmm... that area sounds heavy... i remember passing it by in 1977 because we were scared of it...

how about a group of people living hidden away in some "paradise' like in that movie "the beach"?

I'd prefer that one to pakistan...

[Auntyjack]

...yeah, see thats what I was thinking, anywhere that had a truely relaxed position to one thing say enthno's for example is always balanced with severe reactions to other areas like politics by extreme force/corruption.

governing bodies manage to stuff it one way or another.

JoP I agree...the last haven is in the mind. But there hast to be somewhere not drowning in laws and guns???

AJ

[Amulte]

Vancouver, Canada. Best ive found and i WILL end up there in the future.

[Green Osiris]

The Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) of Pakistan, particularly Darra Bazzar---lots ov guns & lots ov drugs all avaialable to anyone ready to pay enough.

Darra adem Khel would take the cake for least regulation - and relative to western dollar values, it's so fucking cheap ! The price of narcotics & locally-forged munitions is mind bending. A word of warning to any extreme-adventure-seekers though.... chances are someone will tip the authorities off and when your'e bussing out of there, the transport (and you) will likely be stopped and searched. But as with all true freedoms, money talks

[nil]

anarchoutopilandia. but it doesn't exist. not even 'in that movie beach'. perth is cool.

[apothecary]

Can you tell us more about your travels in Darra adem Khel GO?

I could go read up on it but personal experience in these matters is always much more interesting.

[Infinitee]

I would say Dig, Dig, Dig.

We can live happy underground!

Close to the earth's core ... where it's still warm.

[mu!]

Close to the earth's core ... where it's still warm.

Where its still warm?! Fuck this heat man, the earth's core aint got nothing on where i live

[XipeTotec]

the US of A. Land of the free!!

[Green Osiris]

Can you tell us more about your travels in Darra adem Khel GO?

I could go read up on it but personal experience in these matters is always much more interesting.

A sarcastic or genuine enquiry ?

(post self-edited)

Edited February 3, 2007 by Green Osiris

[apothecary]

Seriously.

[Green Osiris]

As nabraxas mentioned, much of the NWFP region is federally administered - which in effect means that the government has decided to let the fourteen(?) major tribal clans exist much as they have for centuries. This serves to keep a large element of peace in the region and it largely works. Part of this agreement is that federal or state laws don’t hold any weight in these regions, so a place like Darra or even the Smugglers Bazaar just outside of Peshawar can exist as a major production/distribution centre for all the nasty things like munitions and drugs.

Darra is a tiny, dusty town in the tradition of the movie imagery of the ‘wild west’. Shanty stores, often little more than a couple of walls holding a roof aloft, are home to many gunsmiths who forge just about any type of weapon that the market demands. Kalishnakovs are very popular, and very cheap. A far cry from what Ide imagine a big automated factory process line would be at Smith & Wesson, these gunsmiths produce weapons in a hand-made tradition. As a result, many of them are crap, as metal is a commodity, and just about any type will be used where possible - which results in some poor quality barrels that heat up and become warped if you fired too many rounds at one time, thus rendering the guns useless. But still, the demand continues unabated.

The hashish and heroin is so in your face that one might still pinch oneself on each occasion he might go since the last time. There is absolutely no secrecy or discretion - some of the stores lucky enough to have a glass front-window can be seen with great blocks of hash plastered to the window. Mostly, though it just lays around stacked in piles. The price per gram if one were buying a brick as seen in the picture (not my pic, BTW, I prefer not to carry such incriminating images) is about 10 cents/g - open to bargaining. If one were to consider a self-funded ‘holiday’, and one of these bricks were to make it to a major city like Karachi or Lahore, one might expect a 1000% profit, more if sold in one ‘tola’ units (about 11 grams).

Now before anyone rattles on about self-incrimination, I am not suggesting that I have, nor anyone should, participate in such overland smuggling, for the penalties can be dire (although again, money can shorten one’s incarceration in a country like Pakistan in the event of capture). However even if one were to speak of such a project, no Australian laws are being broken.

There are also entrepreneurial locals in Darra that can sell you a pair of hand-made sandles with 500grams of triple-wrapped hashish sewn into each sole and pre-worn for a while to give a dusty, ragged presentation. These are mostly shipped to Peshawar for the international export market leisure-wear. I still doubt you’d beat a sniffer-dog with them though, and despite the massive profits (what, 5000% in the west?) the risk outweighs the potential spoils.

Darra Adem Khel is generally considered ‘off limits’ to foreigners by the government, and they post a token soldier/cop/whatever in the town to apprehend any travellers bold (or crazy) enough to visit the town, and haul them back on the very same bus they came in on. People often go ‘missing’, so they try to avoid any international attention where possible. Again, money talks, so too do stating one’s intentions if it might be mutually advantageous to all parties and the local economy.

But anyone considering travelling to this town if in ‘stan should think very carefully. It is dangerous. You will not be welcomed, and likely be turned away. I've only done so in the past because a)I know how to operate the situation and b)the level of lawlessness and danger gives me a rush, and re-enforces my sense of manhood.

I wonder if "X-Treme Travelling" could become an olympic sport ?

Edited February 3, 2007 by Green Osiris

[Auntyjack]

I wonder if "X-Treme Travelling" could become an olympic sport ?...

heheh....or a new style of reality TV,

Could you imagine, instead of being handed plane tickets and money at every checkpoint where the hardest thing they do is piss the locals off for directions, the contestants would have to prostitute themselves or smuggle Harry out of Afghanistan by fellatio'in the driver to ensure a safe passage past the border guards.

now that would be FUNNY, beat the hell out of reality TV crap they shove down our throat atm.

AJ

..erh hang on don't mind me--> what was my first question? nuk nuk

[Torsten]

if you look closely you will find that many free places are very intolerant. it seems that the two go together in opposing sliding scales.

Many places with minimal laws also have no laws protecting gays [and persecution is acceptable]. Ditto for religious and political tolerance. In the Carribean for example it is OK in many countries to beat up gays and even killings are not followed up.

The eastern block was an interesting contrast to the free west. When east germans were united with the west many complained about how the pot was much better, but now they were too scared to smoke it [pot was of little interest to the communist authorities]. There was a popular german tshirt with the comment "I want my wall back" and i always assumed these were west germans who were sick of the 'laid back' east germans. But when my curiosity got too much I started asking them and ALL the ones I asked were east germans.

Possibly the most free laws would be on island states where individual tribal law dominates much of the 'legal process'. Keep away from the tribal areas and there is virtually no law governing what you do.

[Auntyjack]

But when my curiosity got too much I started asking them and ALL the ones I asked were east germans.

...I wouldn't have guessed, but it makes sense if it's specific and isolated. I'll bet they can come up with a few benefits that they wouldn't like to revert.

Possibly the most free laws would be on island states where individual tribal law dominates much of the 'legal process'. Keep away from the tribal areas and there is virtually no law governing what.

The longing for a simpler existence...these are the things that dreams are made of!

Hey Torsten is there any regular meets... like the one in Adelaide young tripper posted about, up this way?? Where ppl just get together?

AJ

Edit --> Forthcoming Calendar Events

Edited February 3, 2007 by Auntyjack

[Torsten]

...I wouldn't have guessed, but it makes sense if it's specific and isolated. I'll bet they can come up with a few benefits that they wouldn't like to revert.

I ended up working in the east and had a few east german friends, and none of them were particularly thrilled about the change. To most of them the drawbacks far outweighed the benefits. This probably changed with increase in wealth. I guess your average blue collar worker doesn't care if he can only travel eastwards. people certainly had a lot more disposable income in the east, because they did not need to buy so much crap and most essential services were free. The black market was thriving too, so most things could be had if you really wanted them. As for politics, not many felt that much changed. Whether you have a choice of 2 capitalist parties or two communist parties makes little difference to your day to day existence.

Hey Torsten is there any regular meets... like the one in Adelaide young tripper posted about, up this way?? Where ppl just get together?

The NNSW ethno community is way too fragmented and up it's own arse to bother with meetings. There was a brisbane group over the years in various incarnations, but not sure what they are doing at the moment. I think salviador was organising some events. have a look in the news section.

[gomaos]

People often go ‘missing’

which was the reason "we" gave that area a miss. We were young and hopeful (in 1977).

But if I had a chance these days, I'd certainly go and check it out. But not with a kid.

ALL the ones I asked were east germans.

I remember having a date with an east german woman in 1996.

She also kept going on about how she missed her job in East germany and how she disliked the change. However, the 2 of us didn't click. In my opinion she was too much obsessed with "work" and "status in society".

But I guess most people are like that and it is I who's different and doesn't fit in. It's always been like that with me anyway, always the freak, always the "outsider"...

There was a brisbane group over the years in various incarnations, but not sure what they are doing at the moment. I think salviador was organising some events.

we could have meetings at my house again, but if I'm not "cool" enough that's fine with me.

not even 'in that movie beach'

i was actually referring to the movie "the beach" with leonardo di Capsicum etc.

It must have been largely forgotten by most people, but it's not even old.

Everytime I watch it I get this strong yearning to be in a place like that.

Edited February 3, 2007 by gomaos

[Auntyjack]

...hi Gom,

what sort of things have you been involved in over the last couple of years.

what has worked and what hasn't??

I'd be interested to know hat has gone before..etc etc

AJ

[Jesus On Peyote]

Gom, I used to think like that about myself but these days i recon its backwards, its not me,you or us that are the freak outsiders,where just smarter then everyone else thats obsessed with "status" and money.

[nil]

not even 'in that movie beach'

i was actually referring to the movie "the beach" with leonardo di Capsicum etc.

It must have been largely forgotten by most people, but it's not even old.

Everytime I watch it I get this strong yearning to be in a place like that.

did you see the end of the film? i think the main position behind the storyline is that power corrupts. eg. the kids who died because they wouldn't take them to the mainland for treatment for shark attack, etc.

many parts of rural hawai'i have pretty cool 'free' societies in a lot of respects. when i lived there for two years, it was very much like the film the beach. and, as torsten mentioned, that freedom also came with a certain 'taking the law into our own hands' situation that could often prove quite stressful.

at one point a native decided i was the girl he'd marry. it wasn't up for discussion, but when i let him know i was happy in my shack and didn't want a man to provide me with 'one nice hale', least of all him, he 'hired' a mutual friend to 'burn me out' for $2k. i found out about the hiring and confronted the 'friend' and my house wasn't burnt out. but plenty of people had issues like this.

a lesbian friend of mine let a woman she knew refuge in her house from her ice-addicted husband. the two women became lovers. the ice addict learnt of this and went to my friend's shack. he shot the pigs and chickens. then he shot the woman's brother and father. then he tied the men to the back of his ute and drug them through our subdivision until their bodies fell apart.

i'd rather wait until we all learn to manifest our destiny in a more evolved fashion and/or create what we want in our individual lives without concerning ourselves with a 'place' that will give us 'true freedom'. true freedom is inside of us. pat the fluffy bunny. c'mon. you know you want it.

[sobriquet]

Even in a country like Australia with drug laws and enforcement, unless you are selling stuff or drawing attention to yourself then there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to grow what you want discretely. Combined with a general interest in gardening you can grow almost anything you want on an acreage or a small suburban setting. Choose the right plants and understand them and you'll be right.

If you're growing cacti, then grow some other sorts to disguise the ones of interest; and do the same with other plants ie. grow herbs and plant some other low maintenance plants as well.

The way most people get caught is through neighbours who you don't get along with or who don't like your type, or tipoffs from jealous or vengeful 'friends'. If you're growing the illegal plants then use great caution about who knows and never let any neighbours (or friends if you can help it) know.

Yes it would be better if there was a better model even in this country, but there are alot of other places on earth that are far worse.

[Green Osiris]

Many places with minimal laws also have no laws protecting gays [and persecution is acceptable]. Ditto for religious and political tolerance.

Homosexuality shouldn’t even be an issue worth debating under the topic of 'freedom', but sadly societies around the world largely take a dim view. Despite the massive changes seen in some capital cities (like Sydney) over the past 20 years, where acceptance levels have increased radically, there still remains a majority who perceive same-sex partnerships as some sort of threat, or at the very least simply ‘wrong’ or ‘unnatural’.

I often wonder why such thought processes are maintained against personal choices in this field. A non-contribution to procreation ? That’s hardly a negative aspect to gay relationships, and in fact serves to provide much needed relief to burgeoning world population levels and environment degradation. Yet a widespread acceptance is still a long way away. The term ‘tolerance’ in which many people choose to utilise in an attempt to cover up their true thoughts is absolute bullshit too, for this actually verbalises unhidden volumes of unacceptance !

Unlike drug use, as a blanket term, in which society might rightfully conclude leads to social unrest (break ins, muggings, dealing, tax avoidance), homosexuality presents absolutely no actual threat in which non-gay people should fear becoming a victim of. (cultural/religious moral fibre notwithstanding LOL). Everyone should by now be educated enough to realise that HIV/AIDS isn’t a gay disease, and can be transmitted in a variety of methods.

Therefore intolerance, or even non-recognition (a’la this government‘s take on marriage) should be seen as much more than a lack of personal freedom. It is a contravention of basic human rights.

On the matter of drug freedom, whilst heroin, amphetamines, cocaine and to a lesser degree marijuana might illicit acceptance and justification of banning by the law-makers in an attempt to curb unsavoury aspects of addicts committing crimes to support their habits, this argument cannot be so easily presented regarding the use of hallucinogenic substances. Even an attempt to pass thee laws off as protecting people from themselves is redundant, considering the open arms given to the easily availability of cigarettes and alcohol - Booze most likely being the majority reason (over other substances) for unprovoked violence both domestic and random, as well as injury & death from drunk car drivers. Freedom to drink alcohol - sure, so long as we pay the massive taxes that are factored into the retail price.