Piracetam to become s4 in may

[SaBReT00tH]

Just bought 1.4KG of this ultra smart powder (enough to make me a genius for 190 smart days )

Is this law just for important or for internal buying in Australia also?

This link: http://www.erowid.org/smarts/piracetam/piracetam_law.shtml

mentions 'As of May 1, 2007, Piracetam will be placed in Schedule 4, requiring that importation for personal use will also require a prescription. '

What I'm wondering then is if Piracetam were produced locally in Australia would a person still require a prescription to buy it?

Can someone also fill me on on Why The Fcuck this substance is becoming prescription if all information sources I have read are saying this substance has no side effects. I really don't understand.

Also, if someone wants a prescription how do they get one?? Would it only be available to people with down sydnrome? Or would they need to gain a maximum low IQ score to get it?

Seems fkn stupid!

Edited March 23, 2007 by SaBReT00tH

[XipeTotec]

Just bought 1.4KG of this ultra smart powder (enough to make me a genius for 190 smart days )

Is this law just for important or for internal buying in Australia also?

This link: http://www.erowid.org/smarts/piracetam/piracetam_law.shtml

mentions 'As of May 1, 2007, Piracetam will be placed in Schedule 4, requiring that importation for personal use will also require a prescription. '

What I'm wondering then is if Piracetam were produced locally in Australia would a person still require a prescription to buy it?

Can someone also fill me on on Why The Fcuck this substance is becoming prescription if all information sources I have read are saying this substance has no side effects. I really don't understand.

Also, if someone wants a prescription how do they get one?? Would it only be available to people with down sydnrome? Or would they need to gain a maximum low IQ score to get it?

Seems fkn stupid!

may i ask where u get the piracetam, from?

[Μορφέας]

for large amounts go overseas n try

bulknutrition.com or 1fast400.com

For domestic but not that large try

www.ultimatephysique.com.au

[faustus]

doesn't bother me in the slightest, i've imported many prescription drugs and have never been asked to provide a script (although i always make sure that i do have one in possession)... it's not like they'll be busting down your door if you try to order some after it's scheduled.

besides, if you find a reasonably open-minded doctor i'm sure you can get a prescription for it. if they haven't heard of it they'll be a bit cautious but if you give them a few journal articles outlining how benign it is, etc. they should be happy to oblige. (though some doctors are absolute fuck tards and nothing you say will change their mind)

what are the implications for the other 'cetams, or is it just piracetam?

[Μορφέας]

EDIT POSTED IN WRONG THREAD

Edited March 23, 2007 by tepa

[SaBReT00tH]

so is piracetam an anti-inflammatory?

[Μορφέας]

sorry to confuse u sabertooth i ment to post that comment in another thread hehe

[SaBReT00tH]

My choline citrate arrived today and I decided to try it out to make my piracetam work. I had read about having a hard dose of piracetam for the first day (3 times the amount) to make it work so I decided to have 3 times the serving size of piracetam and 3 times the choline dose. I had about 2 and 3/4 teaspoons and I think 3/4 of a teaspoon of choline citrate and half an hour later I was tripping like I'd smoked a pound of weed. I had to go to work straight after and drive there and it was NOT good. Felt like I did when I'd had too much Kratom tea when I'd had it at the Kava hut a few years ago. Warning!! Piracetam is a drug, NOT a simple dietary supplement like the packet says and can be DANGEROUS in terms of sickness!!! I can relate a bit more as to why this stuff is scheduled to become prescription in May! I was really tripping in the sense of diziness, sweating, nausea and speedy like effects for at least an hour and a half, until I vomited something chronic. It's now 2.5 hours later and I'm just recovering, and still not quite 100%. If the choline amplified the piracetam by 3 and I had 3 times the piracetam dose I'm thinking I had a 9 x dose. Just thought I'd share some feedback with people looking to try out this drug that they should be careful. As I've purchased a fair bit of piracetam I'm not completely put off it and am willing to try it again but will have half a dose of piracetam (instead of 3 servings) and half a dose of choline (instead of 3 servings). What do others think about the recommended serving size for the first day knockout doses or the correct daily doses thereafter?

Edited April 30, 2007 by SaBReT00tH

[John Smith]

The only country I have been to where zero tolerance appears to be working somewhat is singapore. But I don't think it is the policy that makes the difference. Rather, singaporeans seem to have no interest in drugs other than alcohol. Then again they have no interest in anything even remotely alternative, interesting or fun either. I guess it is easier to have a tough drug policy in a city/state of mindless drones.

Based on my limited knowledge of life in Singapore I'd say it is probably due to the zero tolerance approach to most unlawful activities there. It's citizens compliant behaviour becomes entrenched from an early age. Although it has a lot going for it, I'm not sure that the benefits positives outweigh the negatives.

Prohibition would be largely effective anywhere if regular mandatory drug testing and harsh penalties were applied but who would want to live in a society like that?

I have very stong opinions on our drug laws. Below is a copy & paste of a post I made elsewhere a while back. It is fairly crudely worded (I didn't put much time into it, but you will get the jist). It is also long but if you take the time to read it I'd love to hear your thoughts (sorry if this is considered off topic, but it it seems to me to be the direction this thread has taken):

I have put my ideas to many people over the years and have yet to face a reasonable counter argument.

I should add that if there was a way to complelety eliminate all drugs (including nicotine, alcohol and maybe caffiene), my opinion MIGHT change.

Just to put my opinion in perspective, I am an educated, fairly intelligent 35 yar old male. I have a wife, a child and another on the way. I have never been unemployed for more than about 1 week and I try to make a positive contribution to society. I have occassionally dabbled "recreational" drugs since I was about 16, and I continue to do so.

I would hate for my children to use any drugs.

I do do not think drugs good, but they are fun and people will always use them regardless of the legal status.

My Thoughts:

-----------------

The world has ordinary (sometimes not very bright) and often misinformed people who are the politicians that make the laws.

Prohibition will never work - it just makes otherwise honest, law abiding, hard working, tax payers into criminals.

My proposed solution to make the world a better place for all:

- Execute people who supply to kids (perhaps on their second offence...).

- Substantially increase the penalties for manufacturing / cultivation & dealing.

- Have government strictly control all aspects of manufacture and distribution (making huge amounts of money along the way).

- Require people to be licensed before they can buy drugs, and for each type of drug they want to purchase their license is to be endorsed after they attend a specific education course for each drug. Licencees pay for the courses too, so it costs the goverment nothing.

- Have licencees either sign away their entitlement to government funded health care or have them take out special mandatory health insurance.

This way, the governement saves a massive amount of money by freeing up prisons, courts, police etc (and makes a huge profit from supply).

The people who already do and will continue to buy drugs regardless of the law then get educated, they buy pure substances, at a lower price and they don't have to give their hard earned money to real criminals (whose lifestyles are often subsidised our taxes through social security etc). Not to mention that these valuable members of society then do not become criminals.

Everyone is a winner - except maybe those working in law enforcement, areas of the public service relating to drugs, and of course the drug dealers!

What am I missing here? Am I stupid or is it really so obvious? Why is ethanol OK - just becasue it comes in pretty bottles & cans in different flavours why is it any different? What would the misinfomed politicians say if people started selling it in powdered form - drugs are bad mkay???

The only semblance of a reasonable counter argument that I have ever heard is that society is then condoning drug use which makes people think it is OK. It is hard to argue with this one, but I belive that the reality of the current situation versus my proposed solution outweighs that argument.

I'm not much of a political activist (not at all in fact) but somehow, the world ultimately has to go down a path along the lines I have described. Are there any prospective world dictators reading this???

[Μορφέας]

good good post

[foolsbreath]

Mr Spock, I don't think your scheme would work at all

- Execute people who supply to kids (perhaps on their second offence...).

- Substantially increase the penalties for manufacturing / cultivation & dealing.

- Have government strictly control all aspects of manufacture and distribution (making huge amounts of money along the way).

- Require people to be licensed before they can buy drugs, and for each type of drug they want to purchase their license is to be endorsed after they attend a specific education course for each drug. Licencees pay for the courses too, so it costs the goverment nothing.

- Have licencees either sign away their entitlement to government funded health care or have them take out special mandatory health insurance.

This will in effect segregate people and label people

The government will never be able to control all aspects of manufacture and distribution it is impossible, especially if they are charging huge amounts of money and tax on their products

No one will want to buy a license, making people want to buy off a dealer even more, especially if they loose their right to health insurance, how silly!

You will probably get people making stuff at home to avoid all these administrative hassles which may result in more fatal OD's

Precursors for all will be more readily available because the government is now importing everything it needs to manufacture here (shit will go missing, its human nature)

How do you seperate between a plant and a drug Mr Spock?, as many drugs are direct products of the plant? I take it you don't agree with the recreational use of plants either?

In the governments eye, most of the plants that we wish to grow will be considered drugs (especially if they are tightening restrictions on manufacture and precursors etc) and therefor none of us will be able to enjoy our hobby without the risk of getting executed

I think most 'drugs' are innocuous, there is only a handful that are addictive and hurtful and half of these are already available on prescription (eg high grade opiates, benzo's, hypnotics etc etc). I have no interest in such things, question to ask, is why do some?

The only good point you made in education. Harm minimisation is really the only cure, that and improved mental health systems. I think most people that go on to have a problem with the problem drugs have previous need for such care, take the drugs off them and you might find increased rates of suicide, self harm etc etc, any way to release the emotions or forget about them?

Well I have been just a little bit critical of your idea, It gives the government an awful amount of power over the people, no one group should have a monopoly on anything and people should not have their civil liberties impinged in such a way

Nay, that is the wrong road to travel down IMO

Edit: spelling ;)

Edited April 30, 2007 by foolsbreath

[John Smith]

This will in effect segregate people and label people

I wasn't suggesting the licences be tattooed on recipients foreheads . I would certainly he happy to be "labelled" as eductated about the risks of and authorised to purchase substances of my choice, rather than the current alternative of being labelled a criminal (not to mention the risks of fines, prison, forfeiture of assets etc etc).

No one will want to buy a license, making people want to buy off a dealer even more, especially if they loose their right to health insurance, how silly!

Forfeiture of publicly funded health insurance isn't integral to the jist of what I was suggesting. I included that to prempt likely(?) concerns by the majority of taxpayers about subsidising the cost of any necessary treatment for a minority who may have contributed to their condition thru their recreational pursuits. Obviously there are other options such as recovery of added healthcare costs thru the taxes applied to the substances.

You will probably get people making stuff at home to avoid all these administrative hassles which may result in more fatal OD's

I suspect most people would not have the skills or equipment to manufacture many of the substances involved. My suggestion was that the penalties for this sort of thing would be increased, so why would most sane people take the risk if you could get a licence quickly and easily and then attend a one time education session on the specific substance? What about the "administrative hassles" of getting busted in this time of prohibition?

The government will never be able to control all aspects of manufacture and distribution it is impossible, especially if they are charging huge amounts of money and tax on their products

I have no idea of the facts here, but I would imagine that there would be more than an ounce of tobacco in a typical packet of cigarettes. I suspect production costs of tobacco and cannabis would not differ greatly. How much is a packet of cigarettes compared with an ounce of black market cannabis produced and sold under the current circumstances? And how much of that is tax?!

I realise that this example would not necessarily be indicative of the whole spectrum of substances we are talking about but I have no doubt the government could produce the majority of the most popular substances and sell them for less than current "prohibition prices", all while making a huge profit. Not to mention the assurance of the highest purity.

Precursors for all will be more readily available because the government is now importing everything it needs to manufacture here (shit will go missing, its human nature)

Quite likely but does this potential risk outweigh the potential benefits of ending prohibition? Given the increased penalties, reduced market prices and ready availability of high purity, legally available substances, I doubt too many people would be silly enough anyway.

How do you seperate between a plant and a drug Mr Spock?, as many drugs are direct products of the plant?

Don't know. My proposal obviously isn't ready to be incorporated into legislation just yet. Stuff like this has to start somewhere and no doubt there there would be many details to be ironed out.

I take it you don't agree with the recreational use of plants either

I am certainly not against a responsible and informed individual having the right to take drugs or grow any plant. Among other things, I take great exception to the governments decree that I may not grow cannabis plants at my home for my own use. I wouldn't be here if I didn't agree with the recreational use of plants.

...none of us will be able to enjoy our hobby without the risk of getting executed

That was only for people who supply to children, and even then probably not for the first offence.

Well I have been just a little bit critical of your idea, It gives the government an awful amount of power over the people, no one group should have a monopoly on anything and people should not have their civil liberties impinged in such a way

How would you describe the current situation where the government has decreed you are a criminal if you ingest what are sometimes naturally ocurring substances? The right to kick down your door, fine you, imprison you and seize your assets seems like a lot of power and infringement of civil liberties to me.

--------------------

I don't mean to be argumentative, it is just that I have not previously encountered a response such as yours (despite other negative responses) and I wonder if perhaps I did not get the general idea across clearly.

Whatever the case, there has got to be a much, much better option than the current situation where we taxpayers pay lots & lots of money to employ police, judges, prison guards etc (as well as all the associated infrastructure), for the purpose of making criminals of decent and productive members of society - People who in most cases will continue to indulge in their "evil" activities. Not to mention all of the related costs such as increased insurance premiums etc. The only winners in the current arrangement are drug dealers & pharmaceutical companies.

I've heard it said many times that drug use should be a health issue and not a law & order issue. It makes good sense to me.

Shit is never gonna change unless the majority of people come to understand the overwhelmingly negative results of prohibition.

Sorry for making two really long posts. I post here & there but never normally such long & involved posts. Obviously this is one issue I am very passionate about.

[foolsbreath]

Nah thats cool, ;) I do understand it pretty well

But I wouldn't like the idea of buying licenses for such things. I believe the government would tax such purchases ridiculously

Secondly and more importantly, how private will this sort of thing be? One would presumedly not want employers, neighbors and a host of other people finding out about one holding such licenses for fear of discrimination, and In this day in age, nothing is really private if on eis determined enough to source such information.

how about you hold a pole to see the interest in such a scheme within a community like this? I would be interested in the results

You seem to have analysed and presented your scheme with both social and economic elements, which is the norm (also from a environmental element sometimes). Something I think is left out of such analysis is the human factor. Humans are unpredictable and I don't know what the result of such a scheme would be if implemented, but what I do know is some people just get off on breaking the law or at least skirting the fringes of it, and such a scheme would just not appeal

Post that pole and prove me wrong!!

[Greeny]

This is the first I've ever heard of this drug but now that I know about it I am going to my psychologist and getting him to perscribe me some. I'll give him an option either that or more valium either way I'm happy.

[Μορφέας]

that or more valium

lol

[SaBReT00tH]

can someone tell me bout piracetam dosage please?? The package says 2400mg 3 - 4 times a day, which is 7200MG - 9600MG a day!! plus choline citrate dosage is 3 grams in a serving. There isn't much info on the net done by repetitive users, only studies which don't give specific dosages. I wanna hear eyewitness reports from people who use this stuff.

If I had one serving of choline citrate 3g (recommended dosage) and 2 and 3/4 teaspoons of piracetam (approx 13-14 grams) in one hit then is half of this piracetam dose (say 7200MG) going to be allright or will it simply halve the 15 hour gastrointestinal/vertigo/nausea nightmare of my life that I had to endure two days ago?

Or would it make much more difference dividing the 7200MG into 3 x 2400MG doses with 3 x 1 gram choline citrate doses spaced vastly throughout the day?

Piracetam dosage instructions and info on the net don't seem to takin the fact that choline amplifies piracetams effects (and thus they recommend large amounts of piracetam being consumed on its own) but when you follow these instructions and add choline it seems EASY to overdose on this stuff which let me tell you is BAD as I foundout!!! This also makes me VERY confused as to what amount of piracetam and choline citrate should be used for a slightly larger attack dose for the first day of having piracetam to get your mind used to it.

Edited May 3, 2007 by SaBReT00tH

[t st tantra]

with most things i try i start low and increase dosage until it seems right.

my usual dose of piracetam,with choline is a third to half a t-spoon.

have had a t-spoon size dose with no side effects.

maybe you need to work out your unique individual responses to some compounds?

sorry thats poorly worded.......assume you get my drift without offence?

t s t .

[SaBReT00tH]

thanks tantra. Yeah I agree. I had about 1 gram of choline last night and just under half a teaspoon of piracetam before I went to bed last night and I had the most tactical, cognitive dreams ever!! But kept waking up every now and then with my mind racing with thoughts, hahaha! No nausea or sickness reported though which was good.

Is your usual dose half a teaspoon of piracetam plus half a teaspoon of choline citrate once a day?

[Μορφέας]

lol i was taking a soup spoon of piracetam every morning.. argh lol

[t st tantra]

usually take about a third or so of the piracetam dose in choline citrate. but i do vary this with other choline sources instead.

i dose one to three times a day depending on what i'm doing.

best results seem to be from combining with a few amino acids,say dlpa,tyrosine,glutamine........whichever work 4 u.

t s t .

[SaBReT00tH]

thanx Tantra! I had half a teaspoon of piracetam today with just under half a teaspoon of choline citrate. No nausea was experienced but slight slight numb feeling in body and just feeling not quite 100% 'normal' for about 4 hours. Will experiment tomorrow with same piracetam dose but 1/4 teaspoon choline instead of 1/2 teaspoon.

I've only had Ritalin once in my life, but it seems piracetam seems to have a similar kind of effect but not quite as depressive as ritalin.

[t st tantra]

on reflection i get get some queezyness from larger doses of piracetam but nothing stong enough to give any concideration to.

i've had piracetam a few years back and my memory of that lot was that it was different,smaller crystals and much more effective at doses of about 1//8th of a t-spoon.

are there differences in piracetam forms or some such?

t s t .

[SaBReT00tH]

had half a teaspoon piracetam and quarter teaspoon choline citrate today with no overwhelming effects, which was good. No robotic mind controlling 'DXM'-like body numbness/stoned effects were found (as experienced with the higher doses of piracetam), but I did have it after eating a big breakfast this time so I'm guessing this makes a difference in absorption. Will try tonight again with same dose on an empty stomach. If successful I might think about taking this dose 2 - 3 times a day.

By the way, piracetam tastes freaking DISGUSTING!!! Like consuming liquid zinc!! Urgghhhh!

Edited May 7, 2007 by SaBReT00tH

[reptyle]

i was wondering does anyone know if they will be putting Piracetam on the PBS as a replacement for the ritalin therapy and is this the reason they made it script only?

spockage is onto it.

it seems that if the Govt where to actualy act as a source of information and services for the pub lic which was known to be trustworthy and the public worked towards the building of the state towards an optimum design as opposed to simply wingeing and scheming to undercut the systems then a non-discriminatory humanitarian state concerned with longevity and quality of life on the planet ma be allowed to arise.

if i could get a licence to utilise substances that was based on a wide enough range of understanding and didnt require 6 years to maybe be able to do research i would be willing to work to afford such things, the way it is where not allowed to use medicine let alone recreationals and if we were to work to be able to head to another country we pretty much must return here after having paid oodles of taxes which we are conciously aweare of being spent of "war games" and blatant murder of other cultures. even within australia...

goverments should give people the option to apply effort to obtain the things they want. the way it is people still put in the effort but the fruits go towards fueling the reason the scenario exists. If the communities belived in their goverments motives and objectives full support would be the natural human response. as opposed to a reflective reaction which is breeding evasion of all social and human responsibilities. as above...

also what really seems to be a confusing issue in all this is the quality of the food the "authorities" seem to think is acceptable and the method of production. if these peeps in power actually give a toos about human beings in the community hat should be there first objective providing naturally grown, environmentally sustainable sources of nutrition. until that is ther main concern for all people they really have no legs to stand on. the answers are blaringly obvious in regards to food production and nutrition, current farming practices are primed and ready for a big change and people are starting to think about what they are eating these two in combination...tick tock tick tock tick...mmmmyyuummmm.

societal hypocrisy is the biggest downside of this whole cosmic joke bisness.

got a bit off the old piracetam topic but maybe some relevance regarding the food labelled as piracetam.

imagine when MSG requires a license to put into your food. i really like restless legs syndrome after a hearty meal. and it should b my choice whter or not i indulge right?

restless legs .vs. improved brain function... which one is on your next script?

when it comes to actually trusting these people some random universtiy has deemed clever enough to be a doctor im not to sure. there sems to be some prety outdated BS floating around in the brains of many of these people who trained in a time completely romoved from our current science. many dont read up on current research and still hold onto thei idea that Dr is always smarter than patient when it comes to knowledge of medicine. obviously not all are stuck in the era in which they learned medicine. But seriously some of the stuff they will try to feed you or restrict you from accessing as medicine as a protective mechanism against being negligent for improper diagnosis or treatment is quite astounding.

many are to scared to actually be able to practice their profession in any reasonable form. most just seem to go on with their job in the same way they did 20 years ago, only change is the zest they once felt for helping people in need has turned to a spiteful resentment of these people getting free health care and taking up 12-14 hours of a day they otherwise wouldve been smoking pot with...

its not healthy for the Doc's or the patients. sick society...sumpdedaaa... heading towards a cure...starts with food. then water comes back. air cleans up. information becomes trustworthy and applicable to the everypersons household envorionmental conservation/improvement/production and finally peopl become self sustaining puting energy into the state such that it can provide them with kick backs in the form of that lovey feeling you get knowing your helping set up the same systems in other communities. or simply quality infrastucture.

Edited May 9, 2007 by reptyle

[John Smith]

Torsten would you please consider splitting this topic. I apologise for my severely off topic contribution but it seems there might be some interest in further discussion (maybe we can overthrow the governement ).

I was going to suggest which posts to split (to save you time) but after reading I'm not so sure which ones as many touch on the theme of drum laws & scheduling etc...