gomaos Posted December 21, 2006 ok then. for now I'm tired of hypothesizing. maybe tomorrow. i also admit I'm too obsessed with politics. Often I wish I could simply forget about it. But the more I want to forget the more it doesn't work. It just doesn't go away by itself. The best I can think of is what someone of similar age of mine has said: "We've done our part. Leave it up to the young chaps now..." I wish I could. But the young folks let those old ugly evil politicians get away with anything. Really. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gwydion Posted December 30, 2006 (edited) To keep up to date on Bolivia, you might want to check out http://boliviarising.blogspot.com. (Also, I came across a similar site for Ecuador - http://ecuador-rising.blogspot.com As far as Venezuela is concerned, Apothecary (and friends) has got it arse-backwards, and ought to do a bit of research on what is actually happening in Venezuela before talking about something you don't understand. The oil wealth of Venezuela is being used not only to fund free education and healthcare, housing, food, training, etc, but the 1999 constitution written by the people gives extraordinary powers and rights to women, indigenous people and working people. Venezuela is investing in development to get away from oil dependence, is (with Cuba) investing in a multi-million dollar project to make cheap solar power available to the carribean and other tropical regions, and is spear-heading a project of latin american integration based on human and social needs instead of profiteering. On the topic of agriculture, Ven used to have to import 80% of it's food from the US, that is now about 40% and dropping, as the land is redistributed from landlords to landless labourers. The food is often grown in cooperatives, sold to the Government to distribute, who then sell on at cost-price, effectively cutting big business out of a masive part of the market, and supplying the poor with affordable food. Worth checking out instead of chucking peanuts at things you don't understand. Good places to start include: www.venezuelanalysis.com www.greenleft.org.au www.aporrea.org www.vheadline.com There is also a petitition to get Chavez to Australia in 2007 (and the word I'm getting from Caracas is that it's almost a cert). To make sure it happens: www.venezuelasolidarity.org And a happy new year to all! Edited December 30, 2006 by Gwydion Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apothecary Posted January 1, 2007 (edited) As far as Venezuela is concerned, Apothecary (and friends) has got it arse-backwards, and ought to do a bit of research on what is actually happening in Venezuela before talking about something you don't understand.Good places to start include: www.venezuelanalysis.com www.greenleft.org.au www.aporrea.org www.vheadline.com There is also a petitition to get Chavez to Australia in 2007 (and the word I'm getting from Caracas is that it's almost a cert). To make sure it happens: www.venezuelasolidarity.org And a happy new year to all! Thanks for that Gwydion. This may surprise you slightly, but I have read all your posts on Venezuela several times. So know your personal experiences on the issue well. Despite all your linkage and accusations though, you didn't actually address any of the following issues: Independant Central Bank: Why did Chavez remove the central banks independance? Follow the money, as Chavez raided $5bn from the reserves for 'social programs' shortly after his government passed a law in 2005. Even though, removing the central banks independance is AGAINST THE VENEZUELAN CONSTITUION. Oh and just so you know, the original $5bn was spent to prop up the economy against Chavez previous big spending of oil money. Not on social programs. What's to stop Chavez taking another $5bn whenever he feels like it? Ok. I've gotta go to work, I have a shift in under an hour, so I will address Multi party democracy and independant trade unions tomorrow when I wake up. Because you didn't. Oh yeah and Gwydion, maybe instead of posting links to leftist biased media who claim statistics like 'only 40% of our Venezuelan food is imported now' or '80% of Venezuelans live in poverty' which is just plain Chavez bullshit propaganda. Maybe you should have a look at links like this: http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php?content=l...rs/200609070446 http://blogs.salon.com/0001330/categories/...2/22.html#a1966 If you think those sites are 'anti-Chavez propaganda' then please explain away the twenty or so references they actually provide for their claims. Chavez is just as bad a chimp as Bush. Edited January 1, 2007 by apothecary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gwydion Posted January 2, 2007 Mate, it's little wonder that you have such a bad view of Venezuela and Chavez if you think Vcrisis is 'balanced' or 'well-researched' but reject Venezualanalysis.com and other sites, which are pack-full of data, often critical, but scientifically gathered as "biased", "Chavez bullshit propaganda". If you only read the news written by the (former) ruling elites of Venezuela, then you're going to end up with their world views. Pity that you can't form a view based on a balanced analysis of what has actually happened there over the past decade. Do you think it so believable that Chavez could 'defraud' the people to the tune of the results in the last election? Or htat the Venezuelan people are so stupid that they are promised all manner of rhetorical vistas, but, when they don't result, still vote for Chavez? Or maybe, just maybe, the Chavez government has begun a process of radically transforming that country for the best. I don't know what your agenda is, or why you won't accept that those "propaganda"-filled sites are pack full of reliable data - evidence that your friends at Vcrisis are lying. Of course, if you believe all pro-Chavez information to be nothing but propaganda, and that only Vcrisis and The Devil's Excrement (which ARE, as a matter of fact, full of anti-Chavez propaganda) are reliable news sources, then you are a lost cause. Nevertheless, even VCrisis is undergoing a period of change and reassessment, as Aleksander Boyd, having now spent four months in Venezuela (instead of dropping shit from a great height from outside) has admitted that he was wrong. Now, his analysis is still lacking much depth, and it may be a while before he admits the falsity of the 'figures' he uses, but he reflects the fact that in Venezuela, the elites have accepted that no amount of screaming lies at the wind will, or distorting facts, will circumvent the democratic power and rights of the Venezuelan people. Similarly, I am busy at the moment, but will return to this after the weekend, when I have time. Nevertheless, for anyone willing to do a bit of reading, it's all available on the sites I posted. Feel free to compare the "escualido" nonsense too, and make up your own mind. regards... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apothecary Posted January 2, 2007 I would like to see you dispute the facts of the situation. I am not denying Chavez has helped the poor people of Venezuela. I am telling you this has been possible by an economic policy that you might also see on the American front: "Spend, Spend, Spend". Even in the link you paste, the guy who has been there for four months makes note that there is an oil boom right now. Just like in the 70s the last time people got scared about this kind of thing. But of course, while things were good then, people got pretty poor pretty fast once oil prices dropped. The fact of the matter is that right now, even while things are good as far as oil prices are concerned, Chavez is spending money that he shouldn't because he has to balance out the books. As it stands, Chavez has removed both judicial and legislative arms of the government. He has complete control, and can make up the rules as he goes along. I'd just like to point out that George Bush is currently doing a similar thing with his "executive orders". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Conan Troutman Posted January 2, 2007 A great man once said... “Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything. 14% of people know that.” It gettn hot in here? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gwydion Posted January 10, 2007 (edited) Even in the link you paste, the guy who has been there for four months makes note that there is an oil boom right now. Just like in the 70s the last time people got scared about this kind of thing.But of course, while things were good then, people got pretty poor pretty fast once oil prices dropped. The fact of the matter is that right now, even while things are good as far as oil prices are concerned, Chavez is spending money that he shouldn't because he has to balance out the books. It is true, there is an oil boom. However, Chavez knows this, and rather than *simply* casting out wads of cash to the masses to buy their vote, the Chavez government is building a "Socialist Bolivarian Revolution" - they are providing free education, training, and housing - things that don't evaporate when the oil dries up but form the basis for social development - as well as free health care and subsidised food.If you want an example of chimp-like populist behaviour, look no further than the opposition candidate for the presidency, Manuel Rosales, whose key policy was the racist-named debit card "Mi Negra" (which is a term used in a denigratory way in Venezuela for female afro-venezuelans - it translates roughly as "my nigger") that handed out money every month, instead of building the infrastructure to improve people's lives. Furthermore, Venezuela is redistributing land to landless workers, setting up agricultural cooperatives, urban and rural permaculture gardens, and the like, to overcome, as I said above, their over-reliance on US food imports. More again. A key policy of the Chavez government is that of Mision Vuelvan Caras (Mission "About Face"), which is designed to industrialise Venezuela so as to overcome its reliance on mono-industrial income from oil. In fact, if anyone wants a quick overview of the various missions, go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolivarian_Missions - a site that even has links to criticisms of the missions, just to make Apothecary happy. The point is - what is coming will be NOTHING like the 70's. As it stands, Chavez has removed both judicial and legislative arms of the government. He has complete control, and can make up the rules as he goes along. I'd just like to point out that George Bush is currently doing a similar thing with his "executive orders". Pure lies. Nothing but pure lies. The principle of separation of powers remains in practice in Venezuela in a very real way. The Congress (the legislative arm) remains powerful (more powerful, in fact, than it was before Chavez). The fact it is 100% controlled by Chavistas is due to the fact that the opposition tried the pathetic stunt of boycotting the election. And it served them right. The judiciary is even more clearly in operation - in fact, it constitutes some of the most active opposition to Chavez, which is worrying, because a judiciary is meant to support the rule of law, rather than take political sides. Nevertheless, they have managed to turn a blind eye to militia killing peasants who try to take over land that they are allowed to under law, arbitrarily stopped the investigation into the assassination of Danilo Anderson, and are providing cover to the police force's abuse of human rights and murders. That the judiciary remains as it does - a bastion of the political aspirations of the filthy rich who used to run the country - without serious overhaul is testament to the tolerance of Chavez and his supporters, but such a situation cannot last. Edited January 10, 2007 by Gwydion Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gwydion Posted January 10, 2007 Back on topic, news from Boliva: Boliva to Industrialise Coca Leaf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
