Alex Grey - 2CB

[No_One]

Hey,

Was introduced to an Artist by the name of Alex Grey, not much of an art fan but this guys stuff resonated with me and my developing sense of spirituality.

Here's a link to a particular page from his site where he mentions a substance called 2CB. I've never heard of this stuff prior to reading this.

Alex Grey Site

Is this stuff available here in Australia if one was to look for it? I've never heard of it in my circles. Just wondering how common it is? I've looked around and its "scientific-name" is bromo-mescaline. Is this a close relative of mescaline derived from peyote or are they astranged "distant" cousins. Do they have similar psychedelic/empathogenic effects. Sounds interesting and wouldn't mind planning a meeting for this stuff and I.

Look forward to your replies

[coin]

hey shiva -- welcome

http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online...pihkal020.shtml

i'm in melbourne, and yes 2c-b is definitely available around here, depends on your network ;)

on the whole i'm hearing that most people are not liking it really...probably very dose dependent.. i have no experience with it so can't comment on that

Edited November 24, 2006 by coin

[faustus]

2c-b can be got for about $25 a dose. it's been described as an MDMA-LSD hybrid, though the people with whom i've spoken say it's effects are not as good as either.

a moderate dose of 2c-b + ketamine 150 mg i.m. is meant to be particularly "disturbing" as it allows one to remember more of the ketamine experience. this is probably because 2c-b is an entactogen that anchors the experience towards the physical. one individual i've met found himself on the conveyor belt of a japanese factory as technicians were processing him. so vivid were the delusions, paranoia, deficits in cognition and language, that said individual felt that ketamine is a very good drug model of schizophrenia.

re 2c-b, DM turner gives a good account of nexus in the essential psychedelic guide:

http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online...uide/2c-b.shtml

[spice]

Is this stuff available here in Australia if one was to look for it? I've never heard of it in my circles. Just wondering how common it is? I've looked around and its "scientific-name" is bromo-mescaline. Is this a close relative of mescaline derived from peyote or are they astranged "distant" cousins. Do they have similar psychedelic/empathogenic effects. Sounds interesting and wouldn't mind planning a meeting for this stuff and I.

Look forward to your replies

2C-B is 4-bromo-2,5-dimethoxyphenethylamine. Its the phenethylamine analogue of DOB.

[No_One]

Thanks for the info guys,

This stuff has me intrigued.

Sounds like it hones in on a certain aspect of the MDMA experience and keeps you sailing on that keel instead of spraying you all over the place. Would be good to try I guess. I don't like the idea of enhancing the negative aspects of your ego though; would fuck you up spiritually if you weren't conscious of this going on.

Has anyone that has had experiences or knows anyone that has had experiences with both cactus derived mescaline and Shulgins homebrewed 2C-B have any stories. Is there big differences between the two?

Edited November 24, 2006 by Shiva

[alkatrope]

2-CB is not really much like mescaline chemically.

Bromo-mescaline is a bit farfetched for my liking.

Mescaline has dimethoxy groups on the 3, 4, 5 positions, where 2C-B has dimethoxy on the 2 & 5, and a bromide on the 4..

[Μορφέας]

Iv been looking to see if theirs any 2CB or 2CE lying around melbourne anywhere, Il have to have a better look. If it is here its hard to find

[alkatrope]

It is around but not too often..

Believe it or not you're more likely to find 2C-I.

Edited November 24, 2006 by alkatrope

[No_One]

Good luck on your hunt tepa, hope you find it. Let us know how you go.

I'm thinking the chance of me having a 2C-B experience is small. Won't stop me keeping an ear to the ground though Ya never know; maybe one day if the planets align in the right way.

By the way those are some massive guns your packin' in your avatar; if you do get onto some I'd go double dose, enough for you and the two small children you've got stuffed under the flesh of each of your arms - impressive stuff. (I'm not gay or anything, not that there's anything wrong with homosexuals, just admire the dedication it takes to achieve that sort of bulk - well done).

Edited November 24, 2006 by Shiva

[nabraxas]

hmmmm..... been looking for 2cb in Melbourne for ages w/no luck. i've tried 2ce & 2ci, & as mentioned above i can confirm that those 2 seem to be dose related, ie:you can have too much ov a good thing.

massive doses ov 2ce caused the whole room to spin in a psychedelic kaliedescope intermitantly, & 4 hours into the 24 hour trip a rather severe headache.

from what i've read ov 2cb it's a similar story.

2ce & 2ci were both good MDMA/mushroom combos though

[alkatrope]

massive doses ov 2ce caused the whole room to spin in a psychedelic kaliedescope intermitantly, & 4 hours into the 24 hour trip a rather severe headache.

from what i've read ov 2cb it's a similar story.

24 hour 2C-B trip?

I dunno.. Sounds more like DOB..

[gomaos]

just my 2 c: had it in the past mostly very good experiences, very warm and positive...

of course one can have too much of it and then it may turn sour

some people seem to be less affected then others

2CI and 2CE are cool too...

just hard to find...

[themagicmushroom]

I don't take 2C-B anymore, was fun the first few times, then started to get negtive, weird dualistic push-pull thing going on. I like mescaline tho, I liked 2-CT-7 too, much like mescaline, but with its own distinct personality, very *sparkly intense zoom zoom ZOOOM!!* sort of feel, whereas I find the 4-bromo almost sedating and hypnotic. Mescaline is in a world of its own though. nothing compares.

Also, for me, 2-CB is the least "spiritually awakening" entheogen i've tried. I've come closer to plus 4 on K than 2C-B

2-CB is not really much like mescaline chemically.

Bromo-mescaline is a bit farfetched for my liking.

Mescaline has dimethoxy groups on the 3, 4, 5 positions, where 2C-B has dimethoxy on the 2 & 5, and a bromide on the 4..

I'm sure it was a typo, but, for the sake of acuracy, M has methoxy groups at 3, 4 and 5.

Also, a minor rearangement and a halo substituted for a methoxy, thats pretty similar, all things considered.

Edited November 25, 2006 by themagicmushroom

[Μορφέας]

Cheers Shiva! Its been a 5 day a week thing for the last few years, your right when you say it takes dedication.

[FungalFractoids]

2-CB is shit imo, but I just don't agree with phens generally (i think i cooked my receptors too much with MDMA). My impression was that it was all eye-candy with no depth to the experience. Although, mixed with MDA i found it the most gratifying, other than that the only 2C i've enjoyed was 2-CT-2 (have had 2CE and 2CI as well)

I was always told that phens should only ever be consumed orally but me being the hard head i am insited on snorting 20mg, was kinda like having a red hot wire shoved down your nose and i spent the up period trying to purge it from my body bu=y any means possible- vomit, swaet, piss and shit- all at once, i should really just have listened to the advice.

My most interesting 2-CB experience came after IV'ing 15-odd mg. Me and my mate decided it was like having kandy raver, jack-booted shock-troops marching through our brains. Didn't get much from it but was one HELL of an experience.

Edited November 25, 2006 by Chronik Fatigue

[alkatrope]

I'm sure it was a typo, but, for the sake of acuracy, M has methoxy groups at 3, 4 and 5.

Yes sorry I did mean methoxy.. I'm just so used to saying "2,5-dimethoxy 4-blabla PEA"

[_e_]

I really dont understand the rc's.

Sure i admit im quite biased, but dont plants offer a lot more fun, friendly and rewarding compounds?

I mean sure ive tried a few rc's to 'suss them out' but ive never had an experience i would call 'rewarding'.

Entertaining maybe, but in a cold synthetic way.

Ive tried 2cb more then any of the others, i.e two or three times, having tried insuffulation the first time, and mid dose with md, and high dose alone.

I found it to be quite 'plastic fantastic' and in no way 'sexy or sensual' as others have reported.

It also felt quite taxing on my physicality, and in no way did i get any sense of 'healing' taking place.

I found it quite strange that lots of entheo cats out there started pushing this stuff so much... I havent really heard of any entheogenic experiences, but a lot of 'abrasive experiences'.

I guess it must have somekind of psychoanalytical powers, as i have heard that people like 'confronting' thigns on it.

For me, psychedelics can be psycho analytical and entertaining, but thats not really what im looking for, and for the most part if im not taking something with purpose, then theres really no point.

And energetically you are always better off with a natural alternative!

Ive also heard that a few mg on the plus side of an average dose can really freak people out. so play carefully kiddies!

[Green Osiris]

It's VERY cool that you have found Alex G outside of the typical exposure. His popularity has extended from the band "TOOL" and the very intense, cutting edge album cover designs employed by the band's "Lateralus" & "10,000 Days" presentations.

If anyone want's to see some great modern aspects of this artist's work, go and buy "10,000 Days" in it's original context to experience a wonderful "3-D" stereovisual trip.

Musically, the album is only for those with a long attention span. ....

[_e_]

Musically, the album is only for those with a long attention span. ....

hmmm, i dunno if it is to do with attention span.. but perhaps more along the lines of patience.

I have quite a short attnetion span, but can be relatively patient if i think something is worth hanging around for.

At first i was disappointed, but as with most of tools music (circa aenima at least) it really 'grows on you'.

For me their music is incredibally honest and personal on an emotional level, and they seem to be quite intellectual in their approach to creativity and art. For me i think the reason most people dont 'get' this album is due to preconceptions and expectations.

Aenima, Lateralus and 10,000 days all deliver in completely individual ways... but they have certainly been very rewarding (for me anyway) on many levels.

I feel quite dismayed when i see people dissing their music... i mean, what were u expecting? what do you want?

(oh and btw, whilst alex grey did get a lot more exposure through his artistic collaborations with tool, he had been quite active in the visionary art/entheogen scene for a long time before this happened)

Edited November 25, 2006 by ({E})

[Green Osiris]

E, I concur with you, despite you not liking my statement. Two ways of expressing the same ideal. My comment was more a statement of TOOL being very non-pop (ie the catchy three minute song), or not having elements that many would be able to fathom. I myself an obsessive for their musical artform, have been since "Undertow". Don't be dismayed by people dissing their music, it really is designed for those who are open. I don't know how many people we can 'convert' if they don't already get it.

And yes, of course AG has been doing his thing for much longer before being popularised with TOOL's covers. In fact, he was commissioned for album art before TOOL, with Nirvana's "In Utero" album, and also the aussie punk/rock band Bodyjar.

But yea, it stretches back even further than that. Reading into AG's life, it would appear that he is a big practitioner of DMT-inspired spirituality, and has held many workshops of 'conciousness expansion' with his wife, whom he fell in love with after several shared experiences with LSD in the 60's.

[nabraxas]

24 hour 2C-B trip

to clarify, i don't mean that 'visuals' were present for a full 24 hours, more that pupils were totally dilated, head was still buzzing & sleep was difficult upto 24 hours after initial large dose.

edited to add--also it was allegedly 2CE rather than 2CB

Edited November 26, 2006 by nabraxas

[_e_]

ha!

sorry there GO, i was actually presuming you were a disenchanted tool fan, because ive heard plenty of bitching about the latest album... Mostly from people who are relatively new to it all.

Actually i find that TooL has unwittingly crossed over into the mainstream.. the concerts seem relatively more chaotic and 'macho boisterous' then they used to, and i have personally witnessed a change in the TooL fanbase from a bunch of onto it spiritual beggers, to the cross section of carnival freaks you find at any metal concert.

Im lucky i wasnt 'assuming' hehehe, or i would have made an out of myself (or a little more then the pre-fix would allow)

And my comments re Grey stemm from the same sort of thing happening with the awareness of his work.

not that havign more people aware of tool or visionary art is neccessarily a bad thing, it just brings all sorts of mainstream baggage along for the ride. (a la the king tide of legal highs crashing against the banks of the muddy ethno whooshka)

Nabraxas, are u sure it was 2cb? i thought the ceebeez was one of the shortest acting PEA's?

[alkatrope]

Yeah 2C-B is 4-6 hours primary effects I think..

But he was talking about a "heavy" dose, so I suppose there could be a lengthened recovery if it was near overdose amount..

Edited November 25, 2006 by alkatrope

[_e_]

i once saw a rather large fellow ingest 40mg of 2cb over 7 hours... along with copious amounts lsd

Luckily for him he was stocky and hadn't ingested his normal cocktail of other stimulants, as im pretty sure he wouldnt be here now.. He was having a pretty rough time, although i couldnt help but giggle to myself as it all unfolded.

A large often scary lookn biker type doofer, standing in a small indentation in the ground, crouching down waving his hands around his body screaming 'fuck, fuck, someone friggin help me, im stuck in a massive fukn hole, pleeeassseee get me outta this friggin massive hole'

thats one thing about psychedelics that you cant say about other drugs....

When people push themselves too far, even if its only once and not THAT serious physically, they learn to respect it and be a bit more 'savvy' in the future.

Weird isnt it that people can nearly die on GHB, dodgy pills e.t.c and not learn a thing from it... even go out and do it again the next night.

but when u are humbled by a psychedelic, generally the impression is lasting

Edited November 26, 2006 by ({E})

[reptyle]

for a while most psychedelics were pounding me into a usless incommunicative mess nearly each time i "enjoyed" them, i had only eaten 2cb twice before and nothing spectacular happened other than a sorta nauseaus nightmareish style doof and some interesting tv viewing follwed by an equaly satisfying spew. the last time however was about 3 hours after 150mg MDMA and unexpectadly i wqs thrust into a blak hole of tantric stimulation and out of body serpentine writhing which somehow opened a dorr to a realm of psychedlic information, experinces and enjoyment i had never known before. im pretty sure that from this point onwards there was a major turn around in the emotional state i was exposing myself to each time i considered to ride. i felt free to be in my body, it was like my sensations were separated from my physical awareness and as such i could slip into a state of truely feeling what its like to smell separate from my nose, hear separate from the physicaity of what i was hearing etc. its likei was compartmentalised into an array of senses which acted independantly to provide data, but could be integrated to allow functionality. this new "hallucination" has persisted quite fortunately and i can still relive the infinite love through infinte sensation stle peak eperince from an ingrained mental image.

definately one of my top 10 most pschedelic experinces to date. i think it was about 30mg just for the record.

peace. yay for 2cb.