Stabilizing hybrids

[Auxin]

I'm getting ready to start my first serious long term pepper hybrid breeding program.

I dreamed up a very promising intraspecies capsicum annuum hybrid, I got the parent seeds and am setting it up as one of two winter hybrid projects. I'm gonna propogate the hybrid by seed in order to produce a genetically stable new variety (yes I know hybrids change quite a bit in the first few generations.)

What I want to know is how many generations am I looking at before the genetics of the thing stabilize to the point where seeds produce plants that would look like the parent? Would that be F6? F8? F10? MORE?

I'm guessing (hopeing) it would be mostly stabilized by F8 but this is the first time I've ever attempted to make a new TRUE capsicum variety so I dont know.

Usually when I make a hybrid its just for fun but this is the first one that (if it works) could make the world a better place for chile heads, so I NEED to establish genetic stability so it can be propogated by seed.

Any thoughts?

No I will not tell you what C. annuum varieties I'm crossing (hybridizers are by nature a very secretive lot, especially in capitalist cultures.)

[Torsten]

F4 will usually give you plenty of stably individuals, but knowing which ones they are is a little more difficult. You will need to keep detailed records of every single seed. In practicality I would assume F8 to be more reasonable.

[Auxin]

"I would assume F8 to be more reasonable."

Cool, growing two crops a year I could have the thing perfected in four years

Thanks Torsten

[planthelper]

at times doing this u get all similar= stabilised looking plants after f4( if pedegree is excelent...are u looking for virgor? obviosly u are not into f1 hybrid virgor.in-breedvirgor happens

if it happens ...(lol) after f 15 to f 1000.

but what i love doing is to care for those

rare pop ups called ... mutans.

i did breed: brugs, hemp, catha , carica, ginko..

and to know when to stopp a breeding program

because,of no real improvment. till it fits

again somwhere...

bla,bla

a shortcut would be, what they do to bulls

sperm... controlling the individual pollen (sperm)

of one and the same pollination attempt!even one pollen sack has got different sperm, just getting the best of the cluster is the trick.(only a few millions of dollars will get u the tools u need 4 that)

i am not mad just ahead,

haha..hahah

following pollen or sperm habitus excists;

fast movers...

fighters, they kill other sperm...

endurance pollen, trys to out live others...

and so on like a chess game,

and this is more than my fantasie,

i saw the stuff about bulls on tv.

and what works in the animal KINGDOM

worsk anyksiwhere...

after sorting the one celled sperm gets

stained for easy observation under the

microscope.

sore, yep i am drunk.

[Guest reville]

Planthelper im becoming a little concerned for your preoocupation with sperm. Is this some kind of Freudian thing

Auxin - nice and ambitious. F8 should do it

question is do you intend to cross pollinate newteen the F2's or simply to select off several lines and self them to recombine after traits are stable. Both would serve the purpose, the latter being easier. Dont forget to erect some kind of tent to stop insect vectors cross pollinating your chillies.

[Auxin]

Its kind of a wait and see thing, but I'm probably going to start selfing at F2 and keep it up until its completely stabilized into a single true breeding cultivar. Not just easier, faster too. I use pantyhose to self plants not tents, its much easier that way- you just get fewer selfed peppers. Every step of the way I'm gonna give each plant a serial number, take photos and notes, and keep the seed on file just in case I need to breed in some new blood at some point. I'll probably make deposits to my pollen bank too, but that only keeps for a year, maby two so it might not help all that much.

[Guest reville]

The hardest thing will be to keep true to your goal. The giggest problem when breeding for a specific strain is too much diversity , not too little

Select the best, discard the rest (or you'll be overwhelmed. And yes to reintroduce vigour

just hybridise your true breeding lines at the end (lines that have been selected by the same criteria, that way the desired characteristics will stay true but other non

selected traits will be variable giving the starin some plasticity.

People (who know and care) do this with their Cannabis strains.