Brugmansia first timer

[entheonoob]

First off I wanna say hello to everyone. I've been reading this forum for a few weeks now and my interest in ethnobotany keeps getting stronger. This is a great place for information.

2 days ago I purchased a Brugmansia aurea (yellow) Plant from SAB and while I wait for it to arrive, I've been researching how much a good first dose is but the reports vary so much. I've read about people having full blown trips from just 1 leaf, while others are using many flowers and leaves.

Does anyone here have a suggestion? keeping in mind that I will be on my own and don't want to end up running around the streets naked.

[occidentalis]

I've been researching how much a good first dose is but the reports vary so much.

There is no good first dose.

My advice is to stay away from the solanaceae until you are a bit more experienced.

[entheonoob]

Do u have a good first time suggestion for a plant? I've got 7 heavenly blues growing but they wont be ready for some time.

[sobriquet]

Many of these alkaloids in Brugmansia are active via skin absorption. Hyoscine (scopolamine) is used in a patch behind the ear to help with sea-sickness for example.

Witches in older times would make poultices of these plants and apply them to their skins. They would also utilise the broomsticks or stirring sticks placed in these solutions, intravaginally from where the alkaloids could be absorbed causing hallucinations of flying.

A "good" way of using them therefore would be as a skin poultice that you place on your inner arm for example and that way you could remove the bandage and wash the underlying skin whereas if you swallowed a toxic dose you'd be stuffed.

Disclaimer is that I have not tried this method and the information here does not mean that it is a sensible idea to try this.

[Torsten]

smoking is the safest way as you will invariably stop smoking once you've had enough. just make sure you wait at least 5 or 10 minutes between doses.

skin absorption can be dangerous as it takes quite a while for the alkaloids to travel from outside to the bloodstream. So any alkaloids that are still in this transit zone will still be absorbed after poultice is removed.

I would avoid any of the slow absorption methods (such as tea, poultice, salve) for the same reasons.

[MORG]

Welcome dude

There are smatterings of advice in regards to this all over these forums.

It seems smoking is MUCH safer than oral ingestion. Take your leaf, homogenise it (i.e. chop it all up together so all of your material is of even potency) then start small (half a cone) and wait 5-10 minutes (like Torsten said) to have another half and so on. You'll get an idea of how strong it is then. I think the alkaloids are also synergistic with alcohol so be careful in this regard so you don't go over the top.

Smoking it in this fashion shouldn't result in seeing your dead puppy, vanishing cigarettes or wandering the streets the naked.

Be aware of side effects though. I've only ever smoked very little amounts (i.e. 1-2 cones) and have had no problems however in higher (smoked) doses I have heard first-hand reports of lethargic hangovers. There's also the eye-focusing thing which you should be aware of if you've done some reading around.

[entheonoob]

Do the alkaloids dissapate much in dried material?

[Torsten]

Do the alkaloids dissapate much in dried material?

no.

[entheonoob]

So would I best to dry the leaf then smoke or smoke the raw leaf? Also, while reading up on S. Divinorum, I read that its best to use a torch lighter to get a higher heat to release the alkaloids. Is this the same with Brug?

[Green Chemist]

entheonoob,

One other thing that has not been mentioned, is that smoked Brug can give headaches, at lest the case with me. I have only ever used it theraputically and also Datura (Also smoked leaf). Datura is not so bad. I used to smoke Ma Huang for these problems and beleive me it is really good for lung issues. However, due to meth cooks and ice cooks, Ma huang is hard to get and possibly no longer legal (Thanks Guys, your capacity to fuck up peoples lives is amazing. May the fleas of a thousand camels nest in your gentials).

Things to watch out for when smoking:

Headaches,

Dry mouth (special if you smoke a lot)

Blurred vision (Ditto above)

It can get you stoned pretty good smoked. I *strongly recommend you do not drink it to trip* people who do have trouble with this plant and datura do so because:

A: they are looking for a cheap way to get high (wrong choice buddy)

B: They take it on its own without other herbs

C: They take too much

The stories of witches and shamans using Brug/Datura on its own to hallucinate is a little inaccurate. I came across a receipe for a witches brew on the net a few years ago and it listed about 8 to 10 plants. Most of which were very dangerous. Brug is sometimes used in aya mixtures and only a little is used. Jeremy Narby mentions in his book that they smoked Brug before drinking aya during a session with the tribe he was studying.

Take care and be safe

Green Chemist

Edited September 28, 2006 by Green Chemist

[Gollum]

 

 

May the fleas of a thousand camels nest in your gentials).

Never heard that one. I reckon the whole street can hear me laughing right now.

 

[entheonoob]

Ok, so heres my plan of action put together will all the helpful advice from you people and places like Erowid.

Once my plant arrives, I will pick ONE leaf, let it half dry for easier chopping, then take ONE hit. I'll probably wait about 30 mins before taking another just to be sure.

[Green Osiris]

Take care and be safe

I am compelled to quote Green Chemist's sign off.

That is all

[entheonoob]

I'll report on how it all goes

[Coschi]

Never heard that one. I reckon the whole street can hear me laughing right now.

Yeah i'm at work i just did the same thing, nice one chemist

One comment though, people will always have a use for something, good or bad in your eyes doesn't really have anything to do with them. Cooking meth for the high or smoking ma huang for lung issues is much the same, you both have a use for the substance - just a pity the government decided to outlaw a plant that just doesn't make sense to me

Dunno, that's just me, obviously you take it personally cos you have a 'genuine' use for it...

I recently had a brug experience, in my opinion this plant should be even considered unless you have a clear and set intention for what you wish to achieve from this plant. Its an immensley powerful one. I started small making a tea with half a flower and even that was enough to feel the massive potential of the plant, i really pitty those poor people who go and injest a few flowers and leaves just for fun

Look what i just found!!! BWAAHHAHAHA!!!

eh, sorry ;)

[Alice]

May the fleas of a thousand camels nest in your gentials

and may your arms be too short to scratch

[Green Osiris]

As a positive variance, I have heard the affirmative well-wishing statement from an Afghani mate I used to know:

"May your camel shit golden sultanas for an eternity"

Imagine if that little-known talent was taken up by big business, we'de have the 'caged battery-camels' to protest against !

entheonoob, there's good suggestions amongst these posts (this whole forum in fact), please don't underestimate the significance of whatever you may choose to consume as you enter into this phase. May I be so bold as to ask what experiences you've already had (in countries where given substances are legal of course)?

[entheonoob]

Its most likely laughable but my experience thus far is only MJ & DXM. Thats why I'm going to take it very slowly with Brug. and anything else. I dont know what most people would consider the right frame of mind to go into these things but I believe that plants like Brug., Datura and others have spirits or guides that come with them and I wanna see what the Brug. spirit has to show me. I intend on doing this very safely and slowly.

[Torsten]

not sure why you don't want to dry the leaf fully?!? It will be very difficult and unreliable to smoke semi dried foliage.

one more thing: don't go all the way the first time. Maybe just smoke half a cone or maybe two halves and then leave it for a day or two. There is a lot more to the experience than the coming up of the effect. You may find the dry mouth or various other side effects much more disturbing as the time wears on. I smoked the stuff probably on 50 different occasions before I decided to go the whole hog. And even then I did not test my limits until I had done that 10 or so times.

[coin]

also ... it is difficult to perceive how objective you are being until you are smoking with a a few friends (who are staying sober or at least abstaining from the nightshade) when you observe a spider spinning a little web from the ceiling until someone says "there's no spider" and you sort of do a double / triple take and realise "riiiggghht .. no spider .. hmmm" .. if you can get my drift .. be careful you really don't want to take it too far

please do be careful ... you're being fairly ambitious there

Edited September 29, 2006 by coin

[Gunter]

Will smoking it get one to the hallucinogenic state? It sounds a bit like marazine or dramamine overdose, rather far out.

[Gollum]

not sure why you don't want to dry the leaf fully?!? It will be very difficult and unreliable to smoke semi dried foliage.

one more thing: don't go all the way the first time. Maybe just smoke half a cone or maybe two halves and then leave it for a day or two. There is a lot more to the experience than the coming up of the effect. You may find the dry mouth or various other side effects much more disturbing as the time wears on. I smoked the stuff probably on 50 different occasions before I decided to go the whole hog. And even then I did not test my limits until I had done that 10 or so times.

Hi Torsten, I am keen to hear about your "Whole Hog" experience. What are the disturbing side effects you talk about? Was is a pleasent experience? What sort of hallucinations occured? I have mainly heard of frightening experiences.

Also you talk about your limits. What is a good indication of ones limits with Datura/Brug?

Sorry for the barrage of Q's. If anyone else would like to share their experiences with this plant i would love to hear them.

Thank you

[MORG]

Will smoking it get one to the hallucinogenic state?

Yeah, good question. I was under the impression the answer was no but you shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet

[Green Osiris]

before I decided to go the whole hog.

Be warned children, Brug leads to bestiality

[ballzac]

Will smoking it get one to the hallucinogenic state?

Doesn't do it for me. I don't know if it's the potency of the leaf that I've used, but I've smoked it on many occassions and never hallucinated from it. I'm too sensible to ingest any until I'm one-hundred percent sure I'm ready (which may never happen) and in a safe, controlled environment. I can smoke cone after cone and I get very 'stoned' and dizzy, and I get side effects like a headache and the dries. The dries from this stuff is horrific, and this also puts me off doing an oral dose, because I think it could be hell at higher doses. I've read of people taking a small amount of amanita to counteract this, but I don't know how safe it is to combine them. But yeah, with brug my throat and nose get so dry that I can kinda feel all my dried out mucous membranes sticking to each other inside me or something, extremely uncomfortable, and no amount of water fixes it.

Please note that just because from my experience I have not been able to go overboard from smoking it, it doesn't mean that no one can, and plant material can vary greatly in potency. It is common for experienced brug users to say that you must start off with small amounts. I followed this advice, beginning with a small cone a day, and I suggest everyone follows this advice.