Shroom-huasca

[hebrew]

yeah i agree with coin here, in my early days of being a young man tea was the only way we prepared them.

and often they came so one sick the walls wouldl melt within 5 minutes and woudl be very disorienting as coin says.

we even cooked them in ovens on pizza with no changes in effects but we were eating 10 - 15 WA subs a dose.

with melb subs i dont see the point of going to all the trouble of cooking a few mushrooms when just eating them down seems to do the job just as well if not better. just my 5 bobs worth.

[gerbil]

wait 5 minutes to cool boiled water?? by the time water has boiled in a kettle and kettle clicks off (which is usually before a full rolling boil) and then goes into a ceramic mug, the temp drops probably around 15-20 C pretty quickly... i really don't think you need to worry about scalding in that case also juice of 1/2 a lemon seems excessive and may also noticably disturb the stomach for many ppl.. 1 tsp of juice is probably sufficient ?

Moreso mentioned it as a figure to ease 'paranoia about destruction by heat', the warmth should still be there to facillitate efficient extraction, whilst keeping the mind happy . Alot of the time i've added it straight off the boil. But you are right about it not being a major issue.

Definately 1/2 lemon is in excess, it's personal pref beyond the point of extraction, I know people who would want 2+ lemons per individual tea. I'm vague on my organic chem but small amounts of acid in my understanding have significant effects, like you mentioned ie 1tsp.

It definately is a very personal thing on many levels.

Interesting that people are finding the comeup of tea intense...afoaf has used diff methods so hasn't had tea for a while, vaugely remembers that the initial experience is slightly different. The tea (melb sub) bringing about a very fluid melting character to the 3D airspace with lots of deep reds and blacks.

If peoples stomachs can handle it...imo make a small tea (liquid volume) and down in one go.

I feel the quick and upfront comeup can have alot of value to it, imo it's well suited to visionary doses where a fast disorientating aspect can be beneficial.

On the other hand I agree with Hebrew in that they are already good as it so alot of the time tea isn't needed...circumstances, desires, preference, intentions can promote the administration.

[apothecary]

Interesting that people are finding the comeup of tea intense

Not 100% sure but I think the justification for this is that the actives are already in solution and enter the bodies system almost immediately.

In the case of whole fresh/dried/whatever mushrooms there is a small delay as the fleshy matrix of the mushroom is broken down and the alkaloids make their way into processing.

I can testify, hallucinations have occured on cubensis tea even before I finished the entire cup (not acidified at all), compared to an hour or so comeup using dried fungus.

EDIT: Oh yeah, total biomass may also have something to do with it, I mean 3g of dried cubensis may take a bit longer to process than 1g dried subs.

Edited September 23, 2006 by apothecary

[coin]

It definately is a very personal thing on many levels.

Totally agree

If peoples stomachs can handle it...imo make a small tea (liquid volume) and down in one go.

I feel the quick and upfront comeup can have alot of value to it, imo it's well suited to visionary doses where a fast disorientating aspect can be beneficial.

Well I never found that it was a much to do with the ability of the stomach to handle the full volume ... if it's brewed up well with appropriate herbs to suit the digestion of the person ingesting (ie, if the main difficulty acidity, gas, nausea -- those factors determine the best choice of herbs) ... Digestive disturbance for me, was always a major obstacle to a valuable experience...you have to give respect to the enteric brain imo :-) It is the city of jewels (manipura) afterall ... Personal thing, again...

My comments above, when talking about teas, is referring to 5+ grams of cubensis. I really needed the extra 30 minutes to get acclimated to the changes going on rather than extreme "walls are melting/breathing" after only five minutes when I'd then panic wondering if I'd taken it a bit too far. I'd liked to sort of travel into it in the same way you'd be cautious on the road when changing from one driving condition to another .. this also seemed healthier for group sessions because you could retain group cohesion and confidence for long enough before that stage where verbal communication became too foreign. Even if you were doing ok, you still need to be able to comfort anyone else who is having difficulties coming up, or who is less experienced .. but you are not so useful to those ppl once you're really flying out there. It depends if that ability is falling back on someone in particular.

Personally, I never got anything valuable from doses so extreme that I didn't have full recall the next day. Same goes for any psychoactive experience where I feel a part of it has been erased/blocked from my memory -- that is quite disconcerting to me, not knowing how I've acted or what I've seen .. but knowing something occured at that time, but is blocked and blanked.

I never liked subs....I used to dream of cultivating cubensis for a couple of years with positive or strange experiences, and pretty much never had negative experiences with shrooms (not that there were no challenging moments) until I started experimenting with Melbourne subs, but part of that is due to inexperience and a lack of knowledge and possibly a bit too much bravado, not quite realising the potency of subs and being naive about the possibility that the two are quite different in character .. at the time, the net research that I'd done lead me to believe that potency was the only variable.

But essentially, I was quite turned off the mushroom experience just from rough experiences with subs. Was it a matter of dosage?? Not too sure ... the most disturbing trip I had was combining cultivated cubensis and subs (having only had 1 experience of low dosage subs) ... had some other psych issues happening at the same time, so I can't be too objective about it all unfortunately. But this one time was like my brain vomitting on itself for about 6 hours and there was absolutely nothing positive about it, or to be gained after the fact ... it took weeks for me to pull myself together.

Just relating my experience so there's a record here of the different possibilities of how things can go

Been years since I've taken any serious doses ... have tried tiny doses of subs in the mean time, to test the waters, and there was nothing that made me re-evaluate my opinions. Have always wondered if going back to cubensis might offer the initial clarity I experienced as a newbie -- but have never felt much compulsion to go back to cultivation, and frankly I have too much at stake now to even contemplate getting a bit reckless

Edited September 24, 2006 by coin

[The Tinkerer]

Can't quite remember the exact dosages, but in a land where it was legal, approx 4 or 5 dried subs, 3g of syrian rue and about a small fingernail amount of DMT (from obtusifolia). It was a very enjoyable experience. A few challenging moments, but they make them all the more worthwhile. :drool:

[gerbil]

well put coin, thankyou