_e_ Posted May 14, 2006 this should be some good viewing. Catch it if you have a chance/if your interested. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
James Posted May 14, 2006 I just watched 30min of this program. Seems that the mysticism there isn't bringing any enlightenment to the people. It's just helping to brainwash the people even more ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nabraxas Posted May 14, 2006 Didn't see the show, but this article from the age shows how the Iranian President is using mysticism. It was a self proclaimed Mahdi that the British were fighting in the Sudan in the 1880's the mahdi in Sudan Also i guess Mau Dhib (sp?) from the Dune books was based on this Islamic messiah. THE key to President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's hardline policies may not be found in his revolutionary past, or in the nuclear facilities dispersed across Iran, but in a small farming village near the holy city of Qom. Here, in what was until only a few years ago a shabby local mosque, Iran's new radical Islamist leader has become chief sponsor of a messianic cult whose massed followers pray each week for the end of the world as we know it. Since coming to power last year, Mr Ahmadinejad has given a reported $US20 million ($A26 million) and his personal supervision to turning the tiny Jamkaran mosque into a massive complex of prayer halls, minarets, car parks and ablutions. Once completed, it will cater in comfort to the tens of thousands of worshippers who flock here every Tuesday night, hoping for the re-appearance of the Mahdi or "Hidden Imam", Shiite Islam's equivalent of the Messiah. When Mr Ahmadinejad last week sent a letter to the White House lecturing President George Bush on religion and morality, many wondered if he was a religious fanatic or a megalomaniac or merely playing to an Islamic gallery. Jamkaran is a place to start looking for answers. According to Shiite belief, the 12th Imam or legitimate successor to the prophet Muhammad was only five years old in the year 873 when he vanished beneath the ground in the Iraqi city of Samarra. Devout Shiites believe that some day he will re-emerge to inaugurate a new era of perfect government on earth, which will in turn be followed by the return of the prophet Jesus to judge mankind. Those who flock to Jamkaran believe this will happen very soon. "We can see the signs of his emergence. Nobody can know the exact date of it, but it will be in the near future," said Mohammed Mehdi Safariyan, 23, a theology student who travelled from Qom last week for the Tuesday night prayer vigil. "One of the most significant signs is that people feel they have lost something, something they need and they look for and they can't find. This is happening everywhere in the world. Everywhere we go we see new religions, people who are looking for a way to escape. And the other thing is that corruption and bad deeds will be seen everywhere, like now." It was dusk, and suitably apocalyptic. Storm clouds hung over the half-finished shrine and lightning flickered. The first people, more women than men, were waiting for nightfall when the vigil would begin. Farzaneh Hosseini said she had come to the shrine because she had heard miracles were performed there. "This is the place that the Hidden Imam likes to be and because of him we are here," said the 27 year-old refugee from Kabul. "This thing at Jamkaran is a very recent and contemporary phenomenon," said Moytaba Lotfi, an aide to Iran's leading pro-reform cleric, Grand Ayatollah Hossein-Ali Montazeri. "It wasn't a place that attracted pilgrims. It's only during the last 10 or 12 years, because of the propaganda on the state television and media, that lots of people have come to gather there. This new Government has dedicated billions to the expansion of the new complex." A former close associate of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, Montazeri was suppressed and put under house arrest when he condemned the increasingly autocratic Islamic Republic. The cult of Jamkaran has become a particular target of his small but influential movement. "They are using it to distract people from paying attention to more serious things," said Lotfi, himself a mullah. "People praying is not bad, but if people think it's the only way for their salvation and for solving their problems it's not a good thing … This idea of a person coming directly from God to the world is in all religions, but it's being manipulated by people in order to deceive others." Is Mr Ahmadinejad an artful schemer or a true believer — or both at once? As the West drifts closer to a showdown with Iran, trying to guess Mr Ahmadinejad's real motives and intentions is fast becoming the 21st century equivalent of Kremlinology. There was surprise and dismay in diplomatic circles last year when, having addressed the United Nations for the first time, Mr Ahmadinejad claimed that the righteousness of his religious harangue had struck dumb the listening assembly. On the other hand, he recently was rebuked by his supposed backers in the hardline clerical establishment when he suggested that perhaps Iranian women should not be legally compelled to wear the veil. While his recent messages might not always accord with strict Khomeinist orthodoxy, some observers point out that they are not inconsistent with a desire to win broader popularity. "He's a populist politician, he doesn't care about strict Islamic rules," believes economic and political analyst Saeed Laylaz. "Of course, he's a religious man, but like most people if he had to select either power or religion I'm sure he'll select power, like a lot of other leaders today. They use religion as an instrument for keeping power." The Age Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rev Posted May 16, 2006 (edited) I was deeply moved by this documentary i even wept in grief for not being born to this country and having the benefit of being born part of such a (Dervish ) culture i have been in trance states like those people and i can tell you from the heart that that IS the meaning of life. nothing else even qualifies next to the insights and revelations of ecstatic trance those peope are not deluded. it is the peopel who seek satisfaction in places other than ecstatic trance that are deluded it is true there is only 1 'god' , there is the light and evil exist only in the hearts and minds of mankind. the universe isnt in conlict with itself, it is in poerfect harmony, only our consiousness is the aberance. i pine for the next opportunbity to reenter that special place siiiigh.... Edited May 16, 2006 by Rev Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mescalito Posted May 17, 2006 (edited) I caught about 10 mins at the start and wished I'd taped it, somehow I felt like this is close to how I feel we should live...but then I didn't get too see all of it so I can't really say.It's something I'm definitely going to research more on for sure. Edited May 17, 2006 by mescalito Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
James Posted May 17, 2006 Should we live in a society where Religion is passed down as a Law? Where it's officially accepted that women are treated differently from men? Would you be able to live there and keep a clear conscious? Anyway, I understand this path as legitimate and respect it's followers. Despite not agreeing with them I'll never disrespect them. It just occured to me that maybe I'm the odd one here and should just leave... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_e_ Posted May 18, 2006 [quote It just occured to me that maybe I'm the odd one here and should just leave... James, thats a very sad thing to say! There are no 'odd ones' here... We are all 'odd' in our own way.... but i think the 'odd' ones out in this community are probably the 'evens'... This documentary was incredibly interesting in that it gave an insight into the rich tapistry of cultural and spiritual practices and belief systems that are occurring in a country most of us would consider a 'hardline muslim country'.. Some of the imagery and iconography employed by the ancient traditions alive and well in this country is just mindblowing! Was anyone else drooling over the islamic/sufi architecture??? I feel it is easy for us to make a moral stand against a dogmatic religion that has used seperatism/segregation and 'hierachy' as well as state imposed religious 'law' in order to control and manipulate.oppress the masses.... but the exact same can be said of ANY fundamental religion.. Yes its bad that women are treated the way they are, but in the name of christianity just as many women and children have been victimised...(if not more) In todays world i feel it neccessary to be drawn towards the positive aspect of spiritual traditions and to disregard any dogmatic prejudice and moral/ethical/spiritual discrepancy that may exist... If we draw together all the appropriate/applicable aspects of the worlds religions and leave out the parts that havent worked for so long, we would have something incredibally beautiful and rich and full and vibrant.. Sufferring of many at the hands of a few isnt something that only one religion is responsible for.. If your killing for satan or killing for god it doesnt matter, your still killing! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
James Posted May 21, 2006 Thanks for your reply on the Mystic Iran post. I've been reflecting a lot about this and I'm just realising that my criticism was just emotional and light-minded. It's incredible how these ancient belief systems carry all these "hidden meanings" in their traditions. I must apologize for not realising this before and look at this as just another of my own barriers to overcome. Sometimes I get too secure of my own world view and this seems to be just an obstacle to the spiritual path. Sorry again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
