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Acacia maidenii


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#1 soma_seeker

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 07:10 PM

G'day everyone, have been quietly observing the forums for a while but this is my first post :)

Ok, say my gnome had acquired some material from an Acacia maidenii plant and wanted to perform an acid/base extraction, how would he best process this material in preparation for the extraction?

In particular how would he deal with thin branches that were collected after they had fallen from the tree, rather than strips of bark and fibrous material from the trunk. Should he chop these thin branches and twigs into small portions and then proceed to the freezing/thawing method of pulverization or should he strip a layer of the bark and then throw away the centre material. If so, how thick/deep should he strip the bark?

Are thin twigs (2-5mm thick) of any use or should they be discarded? If not, just chop into small pieces?

thanks in advance for any advice you can offer and apologies if this is answered elsewhere, (i've used the search facility for a while now but have not found the answers i think i need)


soma

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#2 Coschi

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 11:05 AM

Welcome SS !!

There's a tonne of information out there on what you're trying to do, but keep in mind that maidenii is quite disputed as to whether it contains any usable concentrations of tryptamines at all (not that this is your intention)

for informative purposes have a look at the following tek
http://www.erowid.or...on_guide1.shtml

it's not recommended however
over at www.thenook.org/forum/index.php you'll find a lot of people talking about this, and there are some simpler methods being investivated, it has been collectively decided that an initial acid cook is not necessary. anyway decide for yourself there is a tonne of information out there

Furthermore, if maidenii is active i believe the alkaloids are in highest concentrations in trunk / branch bark (presumably because it is a component of the sap) twigs and leaves should be discarded, only fallen branches of several inches diameter would be worth looking at in my opinion.. depending on where you are, obtusifolia is a more reliable choice
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#3 soma_seeker

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 11:46 AM

thanks sphinx! some very helpful info there.

i've actually already consulted the document you linked to, i'm unfamiliar with theNook however.

i have read about the unreliability of maidenii, but since i live in south east QLD i don't think there are any other species around that would warrant my interest. If anyone disagrees PLEASE speak up...

cheers
soma

Taking a psychedelic is analogous to life, if you dwell on reaching the end you'll never enjoy the trip! 

"The notion of regulating, on a planetary scale, first hundreds and then thousands of easily produced, highly sought after, but illegal synthetic substances is appauling to anyone who hopes for a more open and less regimented future."  -  Terence McKenna

 

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#4 Coschi

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 12:27 PM

South east qld should be abundant with obtusifolia

check the avh map at the bottom of the following link
http://plantnet.rbgs...cia~obtusifolia

also
http://www.worldwide...obtusifolia.php

guys over at the nook are very up to and actively involved in theory of extractions
go nuts
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#5 zigzz

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 11:16 AM

My gnome just did an extraction on maidenii. It did't even yeild enough for one dose. I have heard they are variable though. So there's a small chance you could find one with a high DMT content. Can always try the 'burn test'?

#6 Mycot

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Posted 27 March 2007 - 02:06 PM

Yes a ton of information and myth-conceptions. Much of it is a passing on of second-hand information with little first-hand experience. Any errors in the original transmission may still be taken as gospel truth many years later.

To start at the beginning, acacia tryptamine interest got its original impetus from 2 papers published some years ago in the"Australian Journal of Chemistry". One described the finding of spice in leaves of A.phlebophylla. The other described the finding of spice plus mono-methyl-tryptamine in the bark of A.maidenii. A third chapter occured when someone who beleived they were working with A.maidenii found A.obtusifolia to be active. Its to be noted that good alkaloid levels were found in both papers. though with A.maidenii close to half of it in the form of mono-methyl-tryptamine.

Also to be noted in respect to the maidenii paper is that there are no negative findings in it as regards the leaves. The authors were simply examining the bark at the time and reported their results. Had they published a study of the leaves instead we probally wouldn't have the present day obsession with "acacia bark". Those who have examined the matter have found that when alkaloid levels are low in the leaves its also low in the bark, and when high in the bark also high in the leaves, levels often being close to equivalency. This is the case with both A.maidenii and A.obtusifolia. In the case of A.maidenii there is a good probability of the leaves having a better relation of percentage spice to percentage NMT than the bark rendering overall yeilds better in the former. If we wish the plant spirits to be nice perhaps we could be a little nicer to the plant, destroy less of our legacy and be more sustainable.

Its true that not many have found A.maidenii to give yeilds comparable to the original study, most strains having relatively low levels. In my own wanderings I've only come across one population with yeilds similar to the original study outranking A.obtusifolia. Overall alkaloid yeilds from bark and leaves were identical. Peace.

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#7 phloom

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 07:24 PM

Hi there SS,

I'm glad you've researched this stuff!

It would seem that acacia maidenii is a highly variable plant re: genetics/tryptamine content. This is not an uncommon phenomena within the acacia genus, the taxonomy of many species is still being debated amongst the experts. What hope do we laypeople have then?

I don't know about other people, but i think im pretty good at my plant ID, and i struggle with acacias. In SEQ there a heaps of plants that could easily be thought as A.obtusifolia or maidenii, but could really be A.melanoxylon, A.longissima, A.disparrima or some sort of Daviesia.

How many people have tested some plant material which has come up positive or negative, only to post their findings under an incorrect taxa?

Even if you find some patches of an active acacia....leave them alone....do you actually think you deserve them?? save a headache, get seed or plants and grow them.

regards......:)
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#8 Μορφέας

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 08:24 PM

http://www.thenook.o...showtopic=37599

very good guide for Mimosa demetri extraction, i assume you could apply this method?
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#9 zigzz

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 09:38 PM

^^so long as your gnome defats a few times.

#10 Mycot

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Posted 29 March 2007 - 02:28 PM

Wild populations are precious resources not to be taken for granted. Identification of particularly desirable strains along with propagation and creation of seedbanks of same is preferable to trashing this precious heritage of our future.

Edited by Mycot, 29 March 2007 - 02:42 PM.

    Its only sexist when a man does it.            S.M.I.2L.E              T.O.P.Y.              T.A.Z.            CHAOS (The broadsheets of ontological anarchism)
Programming and Metaprograming in the Human Bio-computer          A Thousand Plateaus: Gilles Deleuze & Felix Guattari           Barbarossaaaa
National Organization of Men Against Amazonian Masterhood                      Neuromancer              Greg Egan              Illuminatas Triology
 
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