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The Corroboree

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The trichs in the pics below are all from the Secret Garden

Though they have tags in the pots none of them are named, the tags say SG.

a lot of these plants were quite manky when i got them, they have beefed up nicely and are looking better each day, some have flower buds on them.

This will be a running thread (hopefully this is cool with EG) and each day i will post pics of a new plant from the the SG that are unlabelled and those in the know, or not, can have a go at IDing them.

any input is greatly appreciated - thank you :)

Un named plants

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This is number 1 - a tip cut

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cool.

They will go in the ground in autumn, in a specially made 'SG wtf is that' garden

what dyou think #4 may be Zelly if you were to have a stab at naming it?

I'll tag 1, 2 and 3 as what they might be -

#1 = Eileen or a Bridgesii x or a Pachanoi

#2 = Knuthianus or a Pallarensis

#3 = Bridgesii

#4 = Icaro/Matucana

and we will see in a few years what they may be, exciting.

can take some pics of #4 next to an Icaro tip tomoz for comparison

will continue to post a new one each day as its informative to see what people think they might be.

thank you.

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Well my Eileens do show lack of spination for a while, but not so intense lack of, as in zelly's specimen.. Column seem to only make spines in the bottom areoles, it seems in zellys plant... Other than that I have seen nothing characteristic about Eileen, but maybe this is just me... Maybe I should repot my mother next year....

oh #4, some pervuvianoid/macro but I would not reject cuzco yet.

Olive, you have to grow out these more..

I cant understand people making certain ID's in a clone level.... Especially off these plants which are freshly transplanted / rooted it seems or they recently changed enviroment (recently bought?)

Unless someone know the clones SG sells, which is another thing overall...

I cant see how #1 is a bridgesii, sorry...

Edited by sagiXsagi
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Cool Sagi.

Though the plants are still small it's very good to get some insight as to what they may be, a hint of who they are is great.

The Eileen's that are here from the SG have long spines all the way up them till about 150mm before the tips

This i envisaged is a characteristic of Eileen and the way I was telling her apart from a normal Bridgesii, this and the girth of the columns.

Some guess is better than none I reckon. :)

Mr X will know I'm thinking as they are his plants, he was rattling the names off no worries when I got them all, the texta I was writing on them died in the first load, n it was such a full on day that lots got mixed up etc.....

Defiantly value your input Sagi as i do others that are contributing their knowledge and ideas to this thread.

Will add Peruvanoid/Marcogonis to number 4 as well.

Edited by olive
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my opinion. Formed in my head From factors including but not limited to my own experiences ;-)

#1 is not Eileen.

White flower hairs forming on tip says to me no way. I also agree with Sagix and don't see bridgesii. I see pachanoid

#2 long spined Peru?? ?

I have one looks a little similar, i bought off sab, 'cactus garage long spined peru'

I am seeing the pronounced double downward spines that i see in yowie, which is also obvious on one of the huge dawson spineless terscheckii, which make me think that yowie could be an offspring of pach x terscheckii, from the origial imports, that is personal speculation obviously and probably irelevant.. .

Probably a cuzcoensis type in there..

#3 funky bridgesii . is that pupping from the tip or have they been cut/damaged.. Would be interesting to see if it regulary terminates, maybe a bridgesii/sausage hybrid

#4i am still keen on a matacuna type here but could be anything like the red spine peru which is in the sg??

And macro etc as sagi says.

Even though zelly thinks that the icaro are glaukus .. i dunno i have many plants that show different qualities in different spots in the garden, roseii #1 is one that springs to mind that can be both glaukus and and not. As well as that, seed grown plants grown from icaro seed take on many forms, plant #4 looks to be that type to me.

Pretty hard to put clone names on the tags man, i would put The following on the tags if it were in my gatden, and update ifneeded as the grow :-)

#1 pachanoi? ??

#2 peruvian? ??

#3 bridgesii? ??

#4 peruvian? ??

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Trichocybins looks like eileen ;-)

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I'll tag 1, 2 and 3 as what they might be -

#1 = Eileen or a Bridgesii x or a Pachanoi

I wouldn't label a unknown cutting with a clone's name. There's is a big chance it's not the same clone and if you spread the cutting around with that name, it'll cause a lot of confusion ;)

I think in the near future we'll see crosses of lumberjackusXlumberjackus or eileenXeileen.

Just sharing my thoughts;)

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Olivio! My Eileen looks very similar to 1. You sent me it. from the SG too.

2 looks like a yowie X?

3 looks similar the the bridge you sent me with the label psycho0

4 An LG peru?

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Change my mind about 4. It looks more like a big ribby pach X Peru.

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#1 is not Eileen.

White flower hairs forming on tip says to me no way.

doublebenno- how do you explain the white hairs totally covering the fruits of my bridgesii helen?

post-3765-0-95983000-1449645950_thumb.jp

As for my statement that I felt icaros were more glaucus than what was shown for #4, heres some pics of several icaros in my garden.

the first is a rooting cutting from a seed grown plant

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post-3765-0-30736800-1449646225_thumb.jp

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this is a mature icaro growing in my garden

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something to consider regarding spine growth at aeroles.....if a plant has the tendency to go completely spineless on mature stems, who's to say all stems grown anywhere in the world will exhibit the exact same growth regarding spine formation?

Which pachanois have considerable spines at the base and none on the tips? Most pachanois I've experienced have fairly consistent spine growth at the aeroles everywhere up & down the stem with longer more developed spines near the base. None that I've seen or grown go spineless near the tip, unless its something like HZ which is nearly spineless in its entirety.

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doublebenno- how do you explain the white hairs totally covering the fruits of my bridgesii helen?

Zelly, I can only explain by saying your bridgesii Helen clearly has white hair, I can't see this as relevant though unless I had a pic of Eileen flowering. ....

The reason I mentioned the white hairs is not because I think bridgesii flowers should have any particular coloured hair, but that Eileen flowering is super rare.. .. from what I've read.. .

Your Eileen is very impressive, kinda looks like the one known as bendigo over here.

As for your comments about Pachanoi and spines etc, tje image olive posted as number 1 had no spines along the entire length of the cutting that I could see, so I am unsure about the reference to Pachanoi not having spinless tips and spines on the base. ..

Your Icaros are nice :-)

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Pretty hard to put clone names on the tags man, i would put The following on the tags if it were in my gatden, and update ifneeded as the grow :-)

#1 pachanoi? ??

#2 peruvian? ??

#3 bridgesii? ??

#4 peruvian? ??

I wouldn't label a unknown cutting with a clone's name. There's is a big chance it's not the same clone and if you spread the cutting around with that name, it'll cause a lot of confusion ;)

I think in the near future we'll see crosses of lumberjackusXlumberjackus or eileenXeileen.

Just sharing my thoughts;)

wise words from you both

lets keep it to Bridgesii, Pachanoi and Peru

will plant them in the ground then in 3 sections come autumn........ Pach, Peru, Bridge

1 - Pachanoi or Bridgesii

2 - Peruvianus

3 - Bridgesii

4 - Peruvianus

Number 5

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post-13829-0-54826500-1449650779_thumb.j post-13829-0-69612300-1449650795_thumb.j

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OOoohh tasty, could easily be the 'Helen' from the sg

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if it's the bendigo I'm thinking of its girth don't fit the bill.

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Thats a nice plant Trichocybin :) , lookn good man.

is it an Eileen?

cheers, was labelled as Eileen when I bought it from you early in the year :)

what an awesome cactus nerd thread, loving every post!

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interesting input everyone.

olive I was not critisizing the attempt to ID even at priliminary stage, on the contrary its fun to guess. I was only expressing my sincere wonder on how some can be that sure about identifying not to species level but to clone level from a relatively recently rooted cutting...

maybe we should consider more that different geographic length and width might induce the plant to change its growth pattern even some exterior phenotypic characteristics. And not talking only sun strength here...

On the other hand, I am not really sure about zelly's opinion on how the 'real' phenotype reveals only in specimens in the ground.

It is my understanding that a tricho in a 30-50 liter pot, should show many of the phenotypes characteristics while growing , until it becomes rootbound, at 3-5 years lets say.. When it becomes rootbound, the cactus dehydrates very easy, especially in the peak of summer heat & growing speed reduces dramatically. Essentially lots of the phenotype traits can be observed when the column is actively growing after having established a fair root system, but after being rootbound, the phenotype might change due to dehydration deflation and lack of decent growth. Of course some of the traits that are observed in fully mature and old specimens in the ground like real old areoles, woodification of truck a.o. cannot be observed in pots.

A friend put a PC pachanoi in the ground in 2008. Its nicely big now, but its still the same phenotype.. Well maybe the clone is plain and simple. Doesnt know how to do any tricks with its typical spines...

Basically, zelly is right : If one takes into account that the more columns / branches a tricho has, the more root and watering requirements it has, one can easily understand that bigger tricho specimens really dont like it in pots, even large pots. The survive, but they suffer in summer and seem to like it more on coolest periods of the year. They seem to want bigger and bigger pots, which is eventually impossible..

Cutting some of the biggest columns off to allow the others to grow faster or even cutting tips and restarting seem decent ways to preserve nice plants in relatively big pots . As its often suggested when columnars are treated as common ornamental plants in pots...

just my (not so few) cents :)

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#4 looks pachanoid. spine length resembles that of yowie.

Edited by sagiXsagi

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it is a juicy thread :)

Sagi, let it rip man, please. I value your opinion in all things cactus as you know your shit, same with DB, Philo and Zelly and of course Mr E.G.

- Bring it.

DB and Philocacti make a good point though, best to separate them into the 3 - Peru, Bridgesii and Pach for now till they are much older and their traits are consistent.

I will keep the contested plants in a group area in the ground, for example - where the pachanoi meets the bridgesii i will plant number 1

if more plants could be a combo and are not 'defiantly' identified into the 3 main types then i may make a wtf garden.

What do think number 5 is Sagi?

or did you mean that number 5 may have spines that resemble Yowie........

Trichocybin, i only sent out definite named clones that Mr X named for me before the texta run out and if not i made it clear to the recipients that i did not know what they were. The Eileen you posted is the same as the Eileens i have here from the SG, this is why i recognised it. Yours is looking nice n healthy now, delish.

Edited by olive
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Basically, zelly is right :)

I rest my case. :)

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I rest my case. :)

:puke:

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1 - Pachanoi or Bridgesii


2 - Peruvianus


3 - Bridgesii


4 - Peruvianus


5 - Pachanoi ?




Number 6



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post-13829-0-78745400-1449735041_thumb.j post-13829-0-12694400-1449735059_thumb.j



my noobles is thinking Peru...........



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Very cuzcoensis

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Thanks DB :)



1 - Pachanoi or Bridgesii


2 - Peruvianus


3 - Bridgesii


4 - Peruvianus


5 - Pachanoi ?


6 - Peru




Number 7



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post-13829-0-54644500-1449994749_thumb.j post-13829-0-12511700-1449994775_thumb.j




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olive I was talking (pachanoi, similar to yowie spines) for #5 not #4 , corrected my previous post

#6 seems cuzcoid

#7 seems macro-peruvianoid

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Thank you Sagi, much appreciated. :)

Will get the next one up.

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