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sagiXsagi

Origins of Homo sapiens

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I farken love bioanthropology sagi. My personal fave early hominid has gotta be Paranthropus boisei, bit of an oddity but cool as.

Here's a link to the text we used at uni. Heaps of good stuff and a good introduction to genetics, Mendelian inheritance, and microevolution etc too which might be interesting for some of the cactophiles here who seem to love dropping the word "gentics" into every second post ;)

http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=487d9970797e310419ec8f501f484b61

Be warned though, you'll end up thinking of every primate as a mini human, even cute little tarsiers :)

Edited by Cubism
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I am extremely interested in this and I am following every new discovery that scientists make. We´re in a situation where our chances to understand the universe as a whole also depend on understanding who we are, where we come from and how and how we evolved. This kind of stuff is my secret passion and I always wanted to study this particular field of Anthropology.

Edited by Evil Genius
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Glad there's some interest.. the Denisovan hominid also seems very interesting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denisovan

on denisovan:

these two individuals from the same cave showed more diversity than seen among sampled Neanderthals from all of Eurasia, and were as different as modern-day humans from different continents.

it seems its a distinct species, no?

these articles are interesting too

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaic_human_admixture_with_modern_humans

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Deer_Cave_people

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_human_evolution

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_floresiensis

Edited by sagiXsagi

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wait a minute. you mean to tell me we weren't invented by the Japanese so they could sit back and watch our primative technologys evolve.

shit!

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I remember hearing that Neil DeGrasse Tyson had some theory about us evolving from plants... :huh:

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I remember hearing that Neil DeGrasse Tyson had some theory about us evolving from plants... :huh:

essentially, here's an David Attenborough doco on the origins of life

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John Hawk site looks awesome and super promising!

Dont get me wrong, I love BBC natural history documentaries (have watched tons!) and David Atterbourough. There are dozens of BBC/DA docus for the origin of LIFE, gradually leading to mammals then hominids.... most of them are masterpieces and starting from DA 1st masterpiece from 1979 (life on earth, I think)

This thread is about the origins of humans, so its more focused on hominids.

Docus specifically on hominids or the birth of the hominids or even films abour early hominids (f.e. Quest for fire, 1981) are very welcome.

Cheers

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Neil deGrasse Tyson : astrophysyc , cosmologist .... not that he aint allowed to make biological hypothesis . Link?

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wait a minute. you mean to tell me we weren't invented by the Japanese so they could sit back and watch our primative technologys evolve.

shit!

Of course not. Jesus invented us in year 0000.

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Evolution huh! Well I am pretty sure we are devolving, from a species that lived in harmony with it's environment to one that ruins it's environment to make machines to live from. As for DNA and Genetics determining our outcomes, this be true! However it is often overlooked when human thought and desire can determine the replication of the DNA. We have the ability to create designer children with the power of our mind and heart yet often children these days are no more than an un thought through accident and pest.

The human birth rate is a direct indicator of health and stability in a populace, Australia's birth rate is declining and IVF increasing. We have put money before love and all suffer as a consequence. This is devolution when people start having children for money: instead the love and the joyous contemplation of a grand co creation are impossible because we are too worried the machines may fail or the money will stop. Children raised with plants and animals will always be happier and healthier than children raised by machines and money. We must return to the knowledge of the ancestry before we devolve into something that can no longer be called human. But while we are all in disagreeance as to our pristine origins, we fail to return to them.

If neanderthol were our ancestors then where are they now? Why do we look the same as we did for thousands of years unchanged if evolution drives the world. Why is a monkey still a monkey, the same as it has been for thousands of years? Do we all think the ant has become anything other than an ant, ever? All that is happening is the division of the queens people into 2 main groups Evolutionists and Creationists and this will start a war eventually and after that will be a new set of "truths" given to us by those who consider themselves rulers of humanity.

To free our people we must know the truth and never loose the truth again , not for love nor money.

To discover the truth simply spend 10 minutes trying to have an emotional exchange with a $10 note or a computer then try the same thing with a fruit bearing tree. Which do you prefer communicating with? Which world do you think we are designed for, the artificial world or the natural world? Don't forget once the money is gone it is gone but the fruit bearing tree grows more full each year. Money can never grow it can only ever be taken from Paul to Pay for Peter.

(Creation V Destruction)

(Evolution V Devolution)

I found a lot of info on the pristine origins of hominids in "The Ringing Cedars" Series of books from Russia containing the indepth memory of a Siberian recluse and her ties to the ancient civilization of Rus. The books also cover Telegony and how to remove it, which is an amazing subject on it's own.

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^^^^^

This post is so full of emotional charge and ignorance, that is too easy to reply to - but in the core, this post is out of topic.

This thread is not about debating the scientific, biological and common truth of evolution.

this thread is not about freeing people

this thread is not about the current state of human being

I couldnt help noticing that some of the "naive arguements" (<== being extra polite here) you used are of creationists origin. SO even if you dont make any serious disagreement, you talk about some vague disagreement, while it is pretty obvious you are the one who disagrees.

So in all honesty, newagey mumbo jumbo, hippy peace man should return to nature and any creationist shit have no place in here..

This is about people who are really interested in the real biological origins of the human animal, not a philosophical/theist thread about the fall of man.

PS: What is the "pristine origins of human" you mentioned this twice, and why do you need to add "pristine"? Any links for that books you say ? what is telegony?

Edited by sagiXsagi
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If we evolved, why we evolved into something worst? It does not make sense. How can nature evolve to destroy itself, that makes sense only if we consider humans a cancer of the planet. Why worst? Well..technology and science are worth shit if there is there are no clear skies, clean water , clean oceans, etc... This is a hoax! Humans deep in the Amazon Forest are by far more evolved than us, their biotechnology is a zillion light years from our pseudo imitation of nature.

How a simple 100 years could destroy this much? Yes sure we are the best and more evolved on the planet....give me a break. We now everything, even who/what made us! Its ridiculous.

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We still can go and live in the Amazon if we wish it's our choice. We haven't 'devolved' that ability, evolution isn't the choices we make about how we dump our waist. I don't think we've destroyed anything. It's just not the way we like it. If the planet was destroyed by a asteroid it would be 'natural'but much worse than what were doing. The fact that our population is booming maybe a symptom of evolution working very well.

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Yes in that case, we have developed to protect and exploit our own species, but the price is going to be too high. As I see it nature is in humans, and if humans are part of nature there should be some harmony there. We are negating nature as a whole and this lack of connection is going to destroy us or transform us, probably the later. So called evolution will continue adapting humans to live in a hostile environment. I wonder if there will be beauty then, from nature I mean.

Money has driven us to this point. The planet is hostage to this concept. Greed, power and more, always MORE. As we continue through this path we are loosing our selves in the way. Someone is making a profit from that you can bet.

The thing is that we are in a race against deterioration of our system with all odds against. What will happen first? Deterioration of the eco system, overpopulation, cease of burning energy, shift of dominating political forces, reaction of population or WWIII?

We are living a dream, our concepts and so called reality are melting and the only way to continue this farce is looking down, to an iphone maybe? Virtual reality is here and robots to.

Im starting to connect all this with religion, ideas there like apocalypsis, judgment day, celestial beings from above, saints and prophets that tried to show us the way... I´m thinking a lot of crazy things, but the times we live resemble science fiction.

Edited by Ogun

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Ogun mate, what your talking about is culture, not evolution.

And Woodwoman, Ringing Cedars is a series of novels, even the author has admitted this.

Not trying to start an argument, just pointing out the obvious.

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I second this. ^^^

Ogun this thread is not titled "the future of humans" but the exact opposite !

All your thoughts and arguements seem valid in a discussion on if & how human behaviour is "natural" nowdays, what people have become, and why. Technology and all.. But how would you argue, how would you adress this point without the help of technology?

I agree wholeheartedly that our modern cultures , even with all that biology knowledge, seem to consider humans more than animal, forgetting we all have an animal portion, a big portion, chosing to ignore this portion. And I dig this conversation. Huge conversation!

This is simply not the thread for this :) Maybe in another thread ;)

peace

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the exciting facts and research about the origins of modern humans sum up like this:

many species of Homo seem to have lived simultaneously , and there are data that suggest that more than one hydridisation events might have happened.

sapiens with neanderthal , sapiens with denisovan, and who knows what else, since an archaic homo also seems to have participated in the DNA cocktail , with a later migration from africa (homo erectus?) to europe.

These earlier species and these events and theories about what really happened are the core of the thread.

Edited by sagiXsagi

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this documentary is really spot on, check it out:

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The Miocene is the first geological epoch of the Neogene Period and extends from about 23.03 to 5.332 million years ago (Ma).

The apes arose and diversified during the Miocene, becoming widespread in the Old World. By the end of this epoch, the ancestors of humans had split away from the ancestors of the chimpanzees to follow their own evolutionary path. As in the Oligocene before it, grasslands continued to expand and forests to dwindle in extent. In the Miocene seas, kelp forests made their first appearance and soon became one of Earth's most productive ecosystems. [5] The plants and animals of the Miocene were fairly modern. Mammals and birds were well-established. Whales, seals, and kelp spread. The Miocene is of particular interest to geologists and palaeoclimatologists as major phases of the Himalayan orogeny had occurred during the Miocene affecting monsoonal patterns in Asia, which were interlinked with glaciations in the northern hemisphere.[6]

Edited by sagiXsagi

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On Homo floresiensis, a smaller species of Homo possibly close to erectus:

The species is thought to have survived on Flores at least until 12,000 years before present, making it the longest lasting known non-Homo Sapiens human (unless the Red Deer Cave people belonged to its own species), surviving long past the Neanderthals (H. neanderthalensis), which became extinct between 39,000 and 41,000 years ago.[43]

so Neanderthals were still around longer than we thought.. But this dwarf species survived even longer, for up to 10.000 year ago..

and also

Gregory Forth hypothesized that H. floresiensis may have survived longer in other parts of Flores to become the source of the Ebu Gogo stories told among the Nage people of Flores. The Ebu Gogo are said to have been small, hairy, language-poor cave dwellers on the scale of this species.[47] Believed to be present at the time of the arrival of the first Portuguese ships during the 16th century, these creatures are claimed to have existed as recently as the late 19th century.[48]

Gerd van den Bergh, a paleontologist working with the fossils, reported hearing of the Ebu Gogo a decade before the fossil discovery.[49] On the island of Sumatra, there are reports of a 1–1.5 m (3 ft 3 in–4 ft 11 in) tall humanoid, the Orang Pendek which might be related to H. floresiensis.[50]Henry Gee, senior editor at Nature magazine, speculates that species like H. floresiensis might still exist in the unexplored tropical forest of Indonesia.[51]

!!!! Dunno I find all these pretty exciting!!!! - even though I doubt they live till now...

Edited by sagiXsagi
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Wow cubism, I just checked out the book/pdf you suggested in the begining of the thread, wow awesome!

I am reading a Gould VS Dawkins book on evolutionary biology but havent finished it.

Man I love you, this book is awesome... its a uni book, no? would love to have it as an actual book, and I am seriously considering printing some of it

wow, man, EG, everyone interested in the topic, download this is amazing

Edited by sagiXsagi

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