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to me... a bunch of Trichocereus validus , am I wrong? - micromegas' plant

t.validus.jpg

This one labelled valida , I believe in order to keep 2 clones separately named as so .... reminds me of a lumberjackus on steroids!!!

-purely by haircut alone though ... - Fields plant

IMGP2712.jpg

http://trichoseriousethnobotany.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/trichocereus-valida.html

and on to a progeny from possibly the same cactus... if not, then the other clone there...

(personal fave cactus pic on the planet for starting it off -it being : the re-ignition point of my recent obsession with validus) - brettloth's plant and possible origin from his truely amazing site: Trichoseriousethnobotany

IMGP0006.JPGIMGP2772.JPGIMGP2979.JPG

the spines kind of curve off to the right looking at the front of the cactus ...judging by this arial shot so long as it's not in reverse

-giving the impression they're curving off to the left if you look at the top half of the pic, which is blatantly the back of the cactus

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ
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Yes, that´s validus. And as you can see, it´s actually just a Form of Terscheckii.

Edited by Evil Genius
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They are an absolute must-have in any collection. The big girls are sooooo sexxxy!

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Yes, that´s validus. And as you can see, it´s actually just a Form of Terscheckii.

-edited for grammar and to add the drawing-

then hereby let this be the thread dedicated to the identification of the validus form only , and its closest lookie-likeys

and not any other "terscheckii form" unless it really sings in harmony with what our eyes know and love to be validus

I cant quite see why its a terscheckii at all to be honest so , actually I cant see but

thank you kindly though, I'm sure I will one day see how ? but, I think once a true big ole validus is in my pots , it won't be labelled terscheckii

no, it will be labelled validus , just like yours is currently ....

:) , though I already see from a lot of your posts your'e usually right as heck about lol everything!!! :o

-[and Ill be retina burning that first image of Micormegas's into my mind as if it were mycology.. ;) ]-

but good to know that some deem it technically a terscheckii

all helps toward understanding and learning the true differences

I hope too for others like us who seek the validus and would slay a krillion dragons in it's path to behold the vagalidus

fingers crossed on having potted specimens of our own.... to add pics of to here....in a few years

and I kindly thank in advance .. any help from those who have been before ... and got it right , that are willing to share their expertise

and real validus porn be it nubile or ancient.. for the good of honouring correctly ID'd specimens/lineage... for generations

so far this is as close as I can get for now :)post-14443-0-21352200-1403222257_thumb.jDSC00071.JPG

oh yeah and these too :lol:

OP validus from cactus hero zelly

post-14443-0-57801800-1402853266_thumb.jpost-14443-0-89548200-1402853272_thumb.j

for those offline

DSC00057.JPG

DSC00058.JPG

a bunch of his hybrids

and also a validus x echinopsis hybrid from ukpost-14443-0-40284600-1402853422_thumb.j

for those offline DSC00025.JPG

and the fast grower beauty cut from mutant

gallery_14443_734_79581.jpg

So, from what I have learned here...

validus has a long straight 2"+ central spine pointing downward

and some folk think spines curve to the left ... but could have been optically elluded by arial shots

-or I am optically elluded by an inverted digital image :)

and most of the top half of the areole has no spines, often , but not all the time.

-to my eye it appears as if validus spines have nothing like the curve on terscheckii spines

as a result of the cactus being so fat, areoles look smaller on a validus

smaller than they do on most terscheckii I can find images of for the past 2 years

the occasional/often late forming spines on a new growing tip ,

- I forgot who pointed this out but thank you to them :) .... mightve been you EG? (I'm still learning folks names)

-making its tip occasionally very lacking of much in the way of spination ....

until part way down the cactus* -in growth-age

.... *since i lack the correct terminology , I will call this region the "shoulder" of the cactus , (being - lower than the "head")

These features being something completely different from any tacaquirensis/ taquimbalensis what so ever ....

- with the exception of downward 2" spine - but on tacaquirensis/taquimbalensis they go grey with age

.....and tend to be chocolatey brown-red with youth.

Nor the werdermannianus - with the exception of some later forming, but completely different; spination on the tip

-on some clones as far as I can gather-

By a long shot

I found some lookie likey echinopsis though, some that have even been deemed a synonym of T' valida/us too

heres one

echinopsis minuana

Echinopsis.jpg

heres more minuana , some looking v much like my validus x echinopsis ... if only i could know who bred it

http://www.cactuseros.com/Detalles/Identificado/26744/ECHINOPSIS_MINUANA.html

And what I have learned elsewhere and concluded myself ...is that...

someone in the uk has bonafide validus...and is already breeding it...

someone else in california also has bonafide validus.. and is already breeding that too....

someone else in oz has a flowerer....and there are more awesome folk over there on the case

I figured out later... ,

3 found, 2 to go for now.... maybe more as time unfolds... surely these plants need to do the shing-a-ling ?

also the straight spines and fat bulges on EG's plant make me melt http://trichocereus.net/gallery/trichocereus-validus/

-tried to link pic but wouldnt work-

... i thought id found the same clone at gross cactus in france but they said it was too much hassle for them to ship one , the gits

trichocereus-terscheckii.jpg

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ
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Nevermind...maybe more latter.

Edited by M S Smith

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Nevermind...maybe more latter.

thanks for the input, what dyu reckon to those taca/taquimbo and werder shots that i took the detail to try get as many ID traits as I could

?

Ill bet ur terbo helpn everybody so I'm happy to be patient toward a better understanding of id'ing the larger of these beautiful creatures

-even if it ends up with a bunch of cacti headed "once known as" on their labels lol -with the exception of validus and pelecyphoras

heres another pic i found - incidentally I have a wierd looking knuthianus that looks a tad like this

but someone deemed this below a validus

5628918799_ea3e6ea464_z.jpg

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ

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The chase for T. validus is not for a plant, it is for a plant with a particular label. Backeberg's description is negligible in its ability to differentiate the plant from T. terscheckii in light of the variability we see in T. terscheckii, a plant of incredible wide range, though not known or described as coming from southeast Bolivia. And though Backeberg provides a picture of T. validus (see below) he states clearly in his Cactus Lexicon that T. validus is from "SE. Bolivia (?). Long known in collections as Echinopsis valida Monv."

What this means is that the plant in his photo is in a collection and not the location he suspects it to come from as even he is uncertain of where it's indigenous to. Southeast Bolivia, Backeberg's questionable home of T. validus, as I've mentioned elsewhere, is the home of what we today regard as T. tacaquirensis, a species of some range and variability which I believe Backeberg described under three names due to this range and variability, these being T. tacaquirensis, T. taquimbalensis, and T. werdermannianus.

T. validus seed is often grown out to T. tacaquirensis plants, possibly since the seed was simply collected from columnar Trichocereus from southeast Bolivia, the main one, or single one with the exception of the now denuded T. scopulicola, beingT. tacaquirensis.

So as I said, everyone is hunting a plant with a label and not a plant that is anything other than T. terscheckii. Here's Backeberg's T. validus...

post-19-0-22480800-1403054938_thumb.jpg

~Michael~

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i still think picture 12 on this post http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=33701&page=6#entry409955 is the epitome of what i feel is a validus, maybe its the lean :)

this one :DSC08033.JPG:wub:

, both fields validus ,

both zelly's validus, especially this one :wub:

validus2DSC_0077a.jpg

;....are what my learnings here have carved out for my mind too

as true validus beyond doubt to what I would view as validus and feel justified to label as such, and imagine to be the plant clones sought

with another from mutant to add in time ... i also have an image of my head of a validus I saw at a botanical gardens as a kid and Im still trying to find out where that may have been but that had a really flat top too, could have been france or spain , anyhoo... i am going to go photograph hunting for validus around some botanical gardens here to add later in time....

- I feel taca taquimbo and werder are very much different to the plant which I'm calling validus ...., by orders of magnitudes,

spines can vary but i would think they would make werdermannianus a separate branch especially with it flowering only at the crown/tip

...the tip of my 3 foot plus ...werdermannianus

DSC00002.JPG

and only even pondering a relationship between tacaquirensis (my two tacaquirensis subsp' taquimbalensis - maybe the namer decided it was a taquimby looking tacaquirensis?

gallery_14443_734_498669.jpg

gallery_14443_734_521402.jpg

and i forgot who's for the time being.... will edit later ........taquimbalensis ...

gallery_7332_400_498593.jpg

and the only thing in validus I see being shared with terscheckii is girth and the occasional flat table top tip, which still looks more like a dartboard on a validus

than it does an the terscheckii porn ive been swillin on of late ....and theres definitely plenty of that internationally ....

although some validus look way skinnier than any terscheckii i saw yet too..

but here are my terscheckii

terscheckii 1 valle fertil san juan

gallery_14443_755_431778.jpg

terscheckii 2 - from italy

gallery_14443_755_285288.jpg

terscheckii 3 from germany

gallery_14443_734_418841.jpg

terscheckii 4 from france looks like terscheckii 2 to me a bit more than the others

gallery_14443_767_93562.jpg

terscheckoid 5 is the mutant cut

terscheckii 6 DJF468 Valle Elqui Arg' 1000M

gallery_14443_734_565501.jpg

terscheckii 7 with werdermannianus background right

gallery_14443_734_711673.jpg

I like to think my noob eye is ....,what i will one day wish i had again; when i become an expert (if i get there)

did you ever think the same way back ? before you got ace at cacti?

any dna analasys been done on validus vs terscheckii?

also it seems that if it is a terscheckii... the hunt is for a straight spined terscheckii with a 2"+ downward central spine and

hardly any- to - no spination in the upper part of the areole that looks like all the validus pics ....

, .....the terscheckii thats different and has a better and more powerful sounding name...

1628354-validus.jpg

... the validus

-edited for grammar and to add porn and the comic character validus :3#

maybe that's what EG looks like under the scientist gear? :innocent_n:

or if he had put an echinopsis on a chair... forgotten... and then sat down

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ
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and thanks for pointing that out too fella , much appreciated

how do we know that terscheckii isnt a form of validus?

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ

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I finally found a terscheckii looking like validus so I think Im beginning to see partially what EG means ..

its also the closest image to my childhood memory one too, -the first one that is... , tryna figure how a kid could get that view but maybe the jardin botanique had a stairway , i know i went to monet's garden as a child but its the only name of many garens we visited ... that i can recall... and the name leucostelle feels very familiar .. but could be mixed memories since my 4th language was english, 2nd was french tho

http://www.delange.org/CardonGrande/CardonGrande.htm

Dsc00030.jpg

and one terscheck pic there looks super-like my big hefty cut's flat top

Dsc00031.jpg

-edit - looks like this site went dwn and so did the pics with it...

and the hefty cut i'm meaningpost-14443-0-46461800-1403149837_thumb.j

DSC00052.JPG

edited for - do i really need a reason? i notice some put one lol ... so - adding details

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ
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I think this terscheckii from Poot's Cactus in California looks a bit like validus. Sometimes more, sometimes less.

post-12335-0-16124600-1403152771_thumb.j

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This is a cutting that I got from Fields a couple of years ago.


Tvalidus.jpg


Here's a pic of one of the plants at Fields :)


TvalidusAtFields.jpg


Edited by interbeing
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:o look at all those whoppers!!! wow , interbeing , your Trichocereus validus is immaculate ! and adoreable !

mind you ... so are all of the others too - what an awesome cactus garden !!!!!!!!!!!

just found this at a uk botanical cactery that looks cool because of the straight spines, might even be a validusx echinopsis hybrid...

3496926635_96eb999b42_b.jpg

-edited... to ? ... add extra kudos?

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ
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I think this terscheckii from Poot's Cactus in California looks a bit like validus. Sometimes more, sometimes less.

attachicon.gifIMG_1295.jpg

those strong central, and "tufty" lower areole spines are definitely saying validus to my eyes -edit- spidey senses! , what an amazing plant!

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ

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those spines are definitely saying validus to my eyes ! , what an amazing plant!

The spines may be "saying validus to your eyes," but the Poot's cactus posted by solaritea bears nothing but a resemblance in flower, spines, and column to T. terscheckii, a well established species name while T. validus is not. What's more is that you are using Backeberg's photo of "T. validus (Monville)" as the basis for believing that other plants posted in this thread and others are also T. validus based purely on spine similarity to a plant which is obviously T. terscheckii, and this all the while Echinopsis valida (Monville) has been considered synonymous to a number of other plants, including E. forbesii, E. rhodotricha, and even T. terscheckii. And if you are not using Backeberg's photo for your identification of T. validus then you may be using the plants at Fields, which are you no doubt also surrounded by the same sort of confusion.

post-19-0-33053000-1403228692_thumb.jpg post-19-0-51951100-1403228708_thumb.jpg post-19-0-76889400-1403228721_thumb.jpg

~Michael~

Edited by M S Smith
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The spines may be "saying validus to your eyes," but the Poot's cactus posted by solaritea bears nothing but a resemblance in flower, spines, and column to T. terscheckii, a well established species name while T. validus is not. What's more is that you are using Backeberg's photo of "T. validus (Monville)" as the basis for believing that other plants posted in this thread and others are also T. validus based purely on spine similarity to a plant which is obviously T. terscheckii, and this all the while Echinopsis valida (Monville) has been considered synonymous to a number of other plants, including E. forbesii, E. rhodotricha, and even T. terscheckii. And if you are not using Backeberg's photo for your identification of T. validus then you may be using the plants at Fields, which are you no doubt also surrounded by the same sort of confusion.

attachicon.gifTterscheckii1.jpg attachicon.gifTterscheckii2.jpg attachicon.gifTterscheckii3.jpg

~Michael~

nice terscheck pics! last one looks pasacana to me

and..., no id only seen backbergs pic the other week on a post EG made , not before, I'm going from a memory that im trying to chase myself :) ive had this mutant cut since maybe late april?....

as i kinda put earlier, with the botanical garden in europe where i saw one as a kid .... - was either france or spain, but i was small and the cactus was very very big

....and with my blatantly stating noobality and being receptive to expertise ....

especially finding here finally with real good people and as close to true experts as i can get...

after being snubbed by people on another more local cactus forum for just asking about the genus trichocereus...,

followed by some nasty internal politics,

and a hellish time realising they were their own reason for their complaint that newcomers to the hobby were in shortage...

-although one or two there were helpful enough to point me in the direction of oz and california

so i guess there are the good and the bad everywhere?

- if it's a waste of your time though, then by all means consider my asking you questions quit , and happy growing

and isnt it odd how i can come here to find that A. the plant actually does exist in modern horticulture

and B. folk to tell me it basically doesn't? on the basis that it isn't technically a species...?

anyhoo i was just coming to post here some location data for validus i found , incase it might be of any use to you specifically, but anyone else hunting validus too

I was just hunting a widely recognised validus to call a validus to grow and love and breed and share when applicable...,

without having "thats not a validus , that's a terscheckii" directed at me...

.and also I was just wanting to learn what people's opinions are on ID'ing the plant, including the experts..

Trichocereus validus form/very good for grafting/LH 495 near Oruro,dpt.Oruro,Bolivia 1000s/150Kc.

Trichocereus validus ( Monv. ex Salm-Dyck ) Backeb. Cactus (Paris) no. 46-47: 265. 1955 PSCA 43 Los Colorados,p. La Rioja,Argentina

- would be really annoying if these turned out taquimbo

-edited to remove return fire brashness, and reciprocate the gesture for a better happier world :)

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ

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infact, my personal hunt just upped to every single dang clone of validus that mother or brother nature ever produced

and anything that resembles it too...

I cant help being a noob, we all were once , I just want a fkn validus or 12 to breed and make my conservatory look better than anybody else's

in the process (even if it's just to me and the lil ones) ,and share the love kindly..., in accordance with what the plant wants,

(health-wise, to make seeds, and to geographically migrate far and wide)

that probably dsn give a fk what we call it ..., or what I want,

and to be able to share some validus porn/seeds/plants for years with folk who love the validus' looks as much as we do

and what's more... I'm going to carry on calling a validus ; a validus; but now without using the name terscheckii at all..... no matter who says what :P unless I deem it fit to do so,

-edit- ok that didnt last long... maybe theyre as closely related as a cuzco/macrogonus/peruvianus?

I guess I'll learn that one further down the line

I had already made this decision with pelecyph vs turby so its a lot easier to make this one already

-knowing theres a lookie likey tricho like terscheckii , just makes me want them as well any way,

got 6 definite terscheckii now and none of them even whisper validus

even my blonde pasacana shouts validus louder than them

i will bide my time on the mutant cut , it has the flat top like the one i saw as a kid so far... and is easily one of my prettiest trichos

and i think its clone name should be mutant , whatever it turns out to look like... when colossal , be it validus or terscheckii

-edited cuz i had more to add

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ

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Here is a link to an ID question for the monsters at Poots......more pics of them as well.

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=38750

RAWRZ! v sexy plants ty kindly

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Trichocereus validus form/very good for grafting/LH 495 near Oruro,dpt.Oruro,Bolivia 1000s/150Kc.

Trichocereus validus ( Monv. ex Salm-Dyck ) Backeb. Cactus (Paris) no. 46-47: 265. 1955 PSCA 43 Los Colorados,p. La Rioja,Argentina

- would be really annoying if these turned out taquimbo

I'm not sure why Kaktusy would list both those as being "good for grafting".

http://www.kaktusy.com/userfiles/cenik2.txt

http://www.kaktusy.cz/eshop/printable.php?productID=68886

Location alone would remove the first as T. tacaquerensis...maybe T. tarajensis?

The second location would indicate T. terscheckii (no T. tacaquirensis grow there). He's a plant from there...

post-19-0-53827400-1403257600_thumb.jpg

Well I hope your spidey senses help you find whatever plant you want to call T. validus, but there is little doubt in my mind it's a quest for nothing more than other well recognized species that for whatever reason or other had been labeled as T. validus at some point in the past.

~Michael~

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Well here's my Fields Validus and my Terscheckii. They look nothing like each other but I certainly will not argue that they are not all variations of Terscheckii. I am no expert and I just don't know.

For whats it's worth, my plant labeled Validus is the fattest Trich I have ever seen!

First four pics are my Validus. Last two Terscheckii.

Getafix

post-10315-0-65984000-1403258899_thumb.j

post-10315-0-83291600-1403258902_thumb.j

post-10315-0-36459900-1403258905_thumb.j

post-10315-0-24441200-1403258907_thumb.j

post-10315-0-66244800-1403259007_thumb.j

post-10315-0-39787600-1403259011_thumb.j

Edited by Getafix
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Thank you for sharing getafix,

....been adoring your validus since first sight :)

what a beautiful post to wake to !

that Validus is GORGEOUS!!!!

and so is the terscheckii too

i hope they flower like heck for you soon as cactaceally possible

tomato food?

-edited out of extra terbo love at what a gorgeous plant , again

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ

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I'm not sure why Kaktusy would list both those as being "good for grafting".

http://www.kaktusy.com/userfiles/cenik2.txt

http://www.kaktusy.cz/eshop/printable.php?productID=68886

Location alone would remove the first as T. tacaquerensis...maybe T. tarajensis?

The second location would indicate T. terscheckii (no T. tacaquirensis grow there). He's a plant from there...

attachicon.gifArgentina Cuenta de Miranda - La Rioja.jpg

Well I hope your spidey senses help you find whatever plant you want to call T. validus, but there is little doubt in my mind it's a quest for nothing more than other well recognized species that for whatever reason or other had been labeled as T. validus at some point in the past.

~Michael~

thank you ,now that is priceless help and very much appreciated..

and spidey senses is a good name for it , I'll have to call it that from now on

and i hope you get a Trichocereus notquiterscheckii that looks like validus too if you havent already

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ

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http://sanpedrocactuses.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/trichocereus-validus.html

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-31HmqHMqrnY/Umq4i4YBgqI/AAAAAAAAAVY/9YUfceB7-SM/s1600/validus%3F.JPG

heres that blog n pic with the Trichocereus validus pic that i kinda thought at first was a werdermannianus

but those spines are definitely the ones sought for validus

-edited to test why only half the link pic was visible in one browser but not another , but hey what the heck

Edited by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ

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