Cannabis abuse and nihilism

[mutant]

veg>

It was a party day, much alcohol, much pot, I didn't sleep and went on with watching films and there you are, I got the tolerance up high.

subaeruginosin>

I said how come you know so much about woman beaters?

was you father/relatives woman beaters?

"cannabis is not addictive only habit forming" , hehe, what a difference, you crushed me now! So that's why when you quit you could not eat for 2 weeks ?? because its habit forming but not addictive, huh? lol , your words.... So how come a non addictive substance managed to fuck up your eating/appetite patern so much? well you must have abused it to the point it became addictive, so that you could not eat each day if you did not have a smoke first...

but yeah you're right, its only in your head!!!

well it serves you right to have suffered I guess, and it serves you right still having issues with those problems, as its pretty clear in your desperate attempt to prove yrself superior among former or current cannabis users who are simply way cooler than you.

and oh, you did not stop using cannabis, you already told us various contradicting stories, so dont bother anymore to speak about yourself, you're an arrogant idiot that misses the herb, that's all!

Edited December 5, 2013 by mutant

[Subaeruginosin]

I said how come you know so much about woman beaters?

From watching lots of episodes of cops i guess.

was you father/relatives woman beaters?

Hmmm, what on earth would be your point if one of my relatives was a women beater? lol, for all those random comments you've made about Americans being incapable of being deep, you are actually the one who's coming across as being completely shallow & petty, imo..

hehe, what a difference, you crushed me now! So that's why when you quit you could not eat for 2 weeks ?? because its habit forming but not addictive, huh?

Ok, I know it's hard for some alcoholics to keep track of anything, but maybe you should go back and properly read what I say before you make a fool of yourself and claim things that haven't actually been said.

What I claimed was when I 'used to' (pay attention here mutant, the 'used to' is emphasized just for you. I do realise english isn't your first language, but try to keep up) quit weed, I used to get symptoms that resembled what you would get from an addictive drug because I had convinced myself that it was addictive and that I was to weak to go without cannabis, this was in my teens & early twenties. But then in my mid to late twenties I came to the realisation that when I run out of weed I just had to accept it and move on, just put it out of my mind and think about something else. Once I learnt this simple mind exercise the withdrawal symptoms I described became non-existent. So I have now come to the obvious conclusion that cannabis is not actually physically addictive like cigarettes, but just psychologically habit forming, the withdrawal symptoms I used to get where actually just an immature mindset caused by myself not being able to accept life as it was.

well it serves you right to have suffered I guess, and it serves you right still having issues with those problems, as its pretty clear in your desperate attempt to prove yrself superior among former or current cannabis users who are simply way cooler than you.

Yeah your very much right, it did used to serve me right to have suffered, because now I realise that it was just my own mindset just doing it to myself, rather than an any actual physical withdrawal symptom. I was putting myself though it because I selfishly wanted a smoke and wanted to convince myself and everyone around me that I couldn't go without it.

and oh, you did not stop using cannabis, you already told us various contradicting stories, so dont bother anymore to speak about yourself, you're an arrogant idiot that misses the herb, that's all!

I haven't told any contradicting stories, try to keep up braz! I've been a heavy cannabis smoker for 17 years and have abstained many times though that period. I quit for about 8 months about 2 years ago and have abstained for a week or two every few months during that 2 year period, purely to kill that tolerance. At the moment I have quit for nearly 3 months and ain't really missing it yet, from experience that comes at about the 6 month period, when I know that one bong will get me as smashed as when i first smoked, lol. Abstaining just ain't a problem for me anymore and not because I'm superior to anyone, but because I've come to the conclusion that I'm a grown man now and just can't justify wasting my money, smoking my life away watching stupid tv shows and stuffing myself with pizza and shit.

If you truly want to do it, then stop convincing yourself it's hard! you must convince yourself that you have the power to live your life however you want and then just do it and move on. There's nothing superior about it dude, it's just simple frame of mind.

[mutant]

^^^^^^

Hmmm, what on earth would be your point if one of my relatives was a women beater?

obviously, that you have the tendency to project from the begining of the thread, as I already mentioned a couple times, nothing more

well I dont know if its all those horrible things I told ya, but all in all, I think you are making yourself clearer now.

but still you are not listening, not trying to understand what I am saying

look how you're describing it:

I love everything about it. The aroma of fresh, dried and smoked bud drives me crazy. I can’t think of any better taste in this world than when exhaling the smoke of some quality bud. I think raising a cannabis plant would be pure joy too (although I don’t know due to the draconian laws of the country we live in, obviously!). I could sit and just stare at a stinky healthy cannabis plant for hours on end without getting bored.

But most of all out of anything, it’s that incredible feeling that comes from smoking some bud after at least a month without any. I have never felt any other better feeling in this life, it’s what I’d imagine heaven would feel like if it existed. Everything is just bliss, everything has meaning and all the great questions of life just seem so clear and simple, boredom is non-existent and just being alive feels like such an honor, a great privilege I have been gifted with. It’s pure happiness!

I think that’s my greatest problem with cannabis, after that initial high wears off, I just end up smoking copious amounts of it. It’s probably a psychological attempt to achieve that first no tolerance high, which after a few months just results in getting the exact opposite effect from it.

I get wut you're saying. smoking after abstinence is indeed amazing. its been some 1.5 years now, lol... but you're describing it as the only real high... and from what I understand, if you really feel like smoking every 6 months, I really cant seem to understand what you loved about it in the first place. So you have to admit, that if your habit is broken, theoretically you could also indulge occasionaly, maybe once a month, but maybe , theoretically also, you could also fall into the old habit of trying to recreate the high each day... but you know better now, so.... But obviously, you are doing what you feel its best for you, right?

I also understand the "trying to replicate the initial high thing" and I can relate to an extent, besides its typical with any substance abuse.

But daily use doens't by no means imply you are smoking away your life watching tv and eating pizza. I know / used to know lots of people who smoked like this and did absolutely nothing.I mean creative or shit. Smoking, hanging around with some friends, driving around in the car, listening to some music...thats all.... None of them is doing it like this now, they're all occasional smokers. Their life would be boring and void, or worse, they might end up depressed or mean some anxiety disorder. But they have went on with their lives and all now.

I on the other side, did not dream of growing up to become socially acceptable anyways

my friend never had that awful withdrawls you're describing

my friend feels that if he had hit that low point where life is boring and meaningless and no source of motivation exists, he would have long tried to reverse the habit.

that's what I am saying.

my friend loves cannabis for the most part, without her he would not be the same person. And he accepts this , he could never see him away from her for long.

now obsessive use

and routine/obsessive thought patterns

can be shitty sometimes

could take a little analysis to break, especially if you're a hedonistic dude like me

and that's what I was trying to archieve here, analysis

****

I guess that, when smoking daily is the norm, one can learn to resist and not indulge so easily in the thought 'alright and now lets smoke one'

that's what I learnt from this thread so far

also, and I think I did not mention this

eating patterns became more normal with moderation / night use

Edited December 6, 2013 by mutant

[mutant]

more update:

I should mention also

I know lots of people who dont smoke and dont drink and they cant remember shit. I mean really pathetic and lazy bastards. no cannabis is to blame...

well , they cant remember anything apart from trivial stuypid shit like football shit

no scientific facts and data, no latin names, so films, no directors, no details about anything, no arguements for no fucking point of view, no fucking nothing... well I guess being like that and smoking a lot is intellectual suicide.

the mind can cope up to a point. well not all minds are the same. my mind is an intellectual philosophical mind.

so lets say I am 'saggittarius' enough (look up sagittarius) to fuck up and still be walking...

its not superiority though, its personality, I dont know if you can grasp the context of the word when you are supposing every cannabis abuser must share the truth of your own story.

each story is different even if the drug is relatively benign, and of course I agree that cannabis 'addiction' is completely psychological, routine, habit and there doesn't seem to be no physical tolerance.

anodyne said in page 2:

[mutant]

more update:

my niece and sister brother in law are visiting and stayin in the house

she is aries (the 2 yo kid) , fucking smart, fucking beautiful

anotha motivation , at least for the night shift.

dont wanna , and it always works this way when the darling is around.

but boy I fucked it up a bit as the night came I am in the obsessive phase of mine

also on nihilism , if anyone is really interested in the essence of the topic (this is for anodyne, if he still watches the thread... )

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6074540/old%20KGB%20songs/exctract.mp3

this is an exctract from a 1999 work of mine roughly translated as:

pathway to zero

without a fellow-passenger

inside city's chaotical paranoia

sure way to suicide

unless we somewhat/sometime we hold hands !

[mutant]

thank you thank you thank you

who better to analyze nihilism than sagi X sagi ? (double sagittarius)

PLEASE more comments on nihilism, cynicism, zero, the absolute nothing , and then some]

but then again what is all this ..... (life) ???

fucking sagi wins all the time!

[Anodyne]

Hey man, yeah I'm still here. Just been watching you and Sub hash it out, heh heh. Funny shit. Glad you have a strong sense of humour, it could have become tedious by now otherwise.

Keep writing, like you say it's good to have a record for yourself, like a diary. And also the more you write the more I understand. Like maybe my first comments about staying busy - well it sounds like you already do that, so that was probably one of those "this helps me, but might not work for you" things.

One comment I will stand by as this thread continues is the one where I said that self-honesty is more important than quitting drugs. I truly believe this. I'll never be a shining example of mental health, but everyone I know who has taken the opposite path - pursuing drug-free status instead of self-honesty and discovery - is doing way worse than me. Shit, we want to use drugs for a fucking reason. Sometimes it's just because they hijack those sweet pleasure-pathways in the brain, but other times they can truly help us, by waking us up or reducing our anxiety or letting us sleep or killing the pain or snapping us out of our everyday unhealthy ways of thinking. And I reckon people who flat-out say that drug use is bad or unhealthy are denying this fact to themselves. Either because they have problems with self-control or because they have some kind of fucked-up puritanical viewpoint that anything fun must be bad. Now my attitude may not represent a perfectly healthy mindset, but I figure it's gotta be better than that!

[Anodyne]

pay attention here mutant, the 'used to' is emphasized just for you. I do realise english isn't your first language, but try to keep up

For someone who has misspelled a quarter of the words in their signature, you sure are fussy about language.

"To weird to live, to rare to die"

Edited December 11, 2013 by Anodyne

[Subaeruginosin]

PLEASE more comments on nihilism, cynicism, zero, the absolute nothing , and then some]

Why should the ability to see the truth be such a negative thing? By truth I mean to have the intelligence and enough cognitive thought to realise that existence is essentially meaningless.

Who needs the hassle of spending your whole life being terrified that some vindictive and jealous higher entity is going to send ya to a place to suffer for eternity if you put one step wrong? Who wants the burden of constantly worrying about how people perceive you, or always trying to live up to some perceived expectation of what you and others think you should be? Why would you want to be one of those idiots who give themselves a bad heart and high cholesterol by always panicking about the damage done to earth by us humans? Or why bother inducing premature aging and causing yourself go bald by always being afraid of global warming or some other apocalypse, as if your day ain’t coming either way? Shit, if are person could even be so lucky as to be able to witness the end of the world in the period that they inhabit the earth!

As far as I’m concerned, we are all just star waste, energy being exhausted and in 80 years time me and anyone else reading this will just be fertilizer anyway. So why not quit worrying about it and just sit back and enjoy the ride while it lasts?

For someone who has misspelled a quarter of the words in their signature, you sure are fussy about language.

Oh no!!!!! Completely slaughted. I’m just tooooooo embarrassed to even be able to express it in words. I guess this where I get all self conscious about my own intellect and grammar and quickly edit my signature? Yeah, I’ll get right on to that mate.

lol, is that honestly your best effort?

Edited December 11, 2013 by Subaeruginosin

[mysubtleascention]

kilo meters -
snake bites
.. medicine

a poison !

[mutant]

ANodyne>>

nice to see you're still here dude.

"we want to use drugs for a fucking reason"

man this really hit me... and my friend, lol. I would love to see you elaborate more on this subject, by telling some stories maybe. I will do the same.

update:

these days stuff are going great, finished the greenhouse, saw a very much beloved ex-girlfriend, got some new awesome keyboards from the 1990s as a present for my self for my birthday. been jamming with a friend , been dreaming of living up my old music project again, and writing and playing new tunes by combining gear I have been collecting all year round, you know I have made up some really nice tunes and song ideas IMO lol, been more social, wake up earlier, eat up like normal folks do, and I am pretty happy I can be a happy gardener again in my GH, in fact so happy and confident again that I think that girl thing we were talking about, is pretty much likely to hapen, you know, by itself, heh

BUT I have been smoking normally, especially after nice, different and fulfilling strong days ( drank coffee some days - coffee and me dont go well together . I mean, it works wonders to get your mind acute and all. but as I dont drink I will have to drink half or third of dose. Anyways, coffees and red bulls, especially coffee, you got to smoke a couple just to get the cafeine feeling smashed. How long does this shit last? Fucking caffeine. I dont want to think what happens when an idiot drinks lots of coffee.)

NOW THE ESSENSE

In terms of 'taking drugs' for a reason I got a story to tell. I hope it will be interesting! It sure will be about me tell you all folks about my early days and friends.

its from the early days, early early days. I will tell you what I was like compared to all my friends. I will narrate all individual reactions. Note we were all virgins to smoking herb, and we were all excited to be doing this together all the time, we were close friends, and I will refer only to those of us, most in fact, loved it and kept doing it together. We were so close at first that when we smoked it, we always gathered up together, never lessthan all of us. Anywayz.

ok mi first time it was strange and very hypnotic, ver different, a kind of nirvana. It was cool, I was with the girlfriend at the time..

2nd and 3 rd times were duds, I did feel anything.

so here we come to the 4rth time, which, you know was the first REAL time.

as usually, we went with our motorbikes , to some nearby hill with a view, and also had a portable tapeplayer to listen to some music. It hit me. the music was so different and powerful and the thought , oh the thoughts...

Those times I was the only one who was able to score weed from time to time, and so our use was well spaced and from time to time - and since we were plenty, the weed vanished quickly , in a couple days, so it was really occasional back then. One by one, the fellows, starting tasting herb and they all stayed, at least for a while. You know we all used to long for the time we go smoking and all. We couldnt do it home so we went to remote locations. Some think its distasteful or pointless. I loved it.

Anyway I remember the first period very boldly, it was certainly a crushial, point in my life, I started seeing the world in more point of views, I started thinking more open-minded, and it really worked for me because I had always an inclination to be a free-thinker. It catalyzed my musical inspiration and motivation enormously. I wrote tons of lyrics and music back then, lots of great and essential epiphanies happened at that time.

it was the typical effects of a long awaited awakening, psychedelia which in large extent was not noticed by my friends, or at least not in the form of ideas or communicating ideas

so,

I had 'invented' this little thingy, and I recorded some songs that the company of friends liked , or songs with some special meaning or lyric, you know, with some narration and silly jokes of mine over it, to be heard on tapeplayer when we smoked. It was sweet we had many laughs with these, and it worked for a while. After a while, I could get them to participate and listen so I abandoned it. I made some 8-9 such recordings, 'rememberies' I called them.

For what its worth, compared to my friends, I wanted to do something special when I smoke the fucking joint. I wanted to be at some nice place, to the side of one river perhaps, in a remote hill with an awesome view, a remote beach , a nice rooftop at a summer night, you name it. And yeah we did all that. Yeah it had to be remote for me, cause what the point in getting a strong psychedelic experience under the eyes of anyone, not forgetting the social tabboo and fear "they will understand you are stoned" , typical with many smokers. I for one, didn't like it for one more reason. I did not like to hide I was stoned. I wanted to be free to do whatever the fuck I wanted, laugh, look stoned, talk stoned or talk about trivial little stuff that pot smokers talk about when they smoke some really good shit.

So I liked and I still like my smoke come in good timing, and a sense that we would do something with it. You know like watching a film. My friends were not like this, they longed for the smoke and when it came, and months came by and life went by, it didn't seem to make the as happy as in the old days.

My friends started to have bitchy cravings early on. They always got on my nerves with that, cause I did not feel like that. We had just run out of pot, but we had some awesome time while we had it , and now we had no pot, big deal. But they kept fussing about it, and bitching, "how cool it would if we had a joint now bla bla bla " , so after a couple of days hanging around them like that, you get the fucking cravings yourself, I mean your only human..

but anyways, none of those fellas came to be so passionate and long term smokers as I am. go figure.

btw I am like that with all drugs, well not all, not with beer, I think I can drink anytime if you only bring up the idea... .lol

so:

the differences

we were

ME: normal reactions, laughs - check, childish behaviour- check

1 (male) : normal reactions, laughs - check, childish behaviour- check

as time went by, 1 had perhaps the most cravings, and gradually pot messed him up and made him depressed and unmotivated, so by some years later, he switched to occasional use. He actually smokes very little and very occasionally. He is definatelly one of those who would never benefit from daily or often use . He is now doing pretty great. And as I see he occasionally thinks "hey, it wouldn't by bad if I got me a couple joints to smoke when the work is over at night while watching a film and relaxing" , I can see how this can be the fittest style for him. Extremely occasional to ver occasional.

2 (female and then mate to 1): normal reactions, laughs - check, childish behaviour- check

MA is a she and had the most drug use of all of us in the early years, lots of psychedelic experiences, and later even heroin, but she is doing great too. She smokes occasionally, but I am sure she might smoke if she had more money, lol. MA is the kind of .. well drug person, who is quite inclined to take a drug almost at any time, and open to experimentations. Also the drugs 'liked' her. She took many trips and whe was always happy. And booze. Man we all drank booze. But like I said, we are older now, and she is doing swell and not centering her life around drugs. But also , like I said, she is a person that likes getting high and she can do it, her body and head are strong enough to have ridden along some of the most hardcore. So when timing is nice is one of those that can smoke more than most of the old friends.

KO - KO is more of a rough ride. This dude comes from a family where both parents have a known psychiatrical past. when he first moved away to study, we were just beging to smoke, and he found a contact at the new town sopon enough and started daily use pretty fast, being a student with his residence and all, and so was GI, and KL who had also moved and studying in the same city.

reactions: KO had very strange reactions. He certainly felt the high, lol. He seemed pretty unable to communicate with the rest of the party, he mumbed or raved by himself, ranting on music CDs reviews on music he liked, or other random nonsense. We didn't know better to translate these as a sign something is wrong here, we were kids, well 18, and stoned, we actually found KO's "performance" and ravings hillarious. I mean we had a variety of reactions! There are some pretty cool stories but they would lose a lot in translation and in lack of body language. The dude, looking back at then was in a semi-delirium, the first times he smoked, a delirium seemingly not unpleasant. Some times he got more fearful. But basically he was worried about his heart rate and all. For however he used cannabis, he always worried about his heart rate and heart and everything, he could not accept he was anxious, that his problem was psychological, he denied all that, and did this for years... KO is one of those that his use and , abusive use led to an early "generalised anciety disorder" in the dircet following years, soon after his use escalated high enough. Clearly a predisposed person, and pot catalysed that. years of not accepting reality, no therapy, just a negative stance has resulted in KO not doing to well for over 10 years now. Recently he got a diagnosis that he so long longed for. His parents play a big part in this. fucking looniez, but loonies of the "educaded" background, teacher and doctor educated. I dont pity him so much for two reasons. First he is to blame for a whole big part. he brought it to himself. and I dont mean smoking too much at 19. Second , he is really intelligent and capable guy. He has been bitching for more than 10 years now, I am sick of him. really stuborn motherfucker.

3 was and still is a true cynic. the type of man that never shows he is impressed, or rarely does childish things.

SO he reacted silently. He could converse normally, he liked the music and shit I tried to bring in sometimes, and at others times he mocked me, but all in all he seemed rather indifferent , or uneffected by the joints we smoked. 3 has gradually stopped use and only smoked occasionally, if its offered or something. very intelligent, the pot definatelly didn't break his cynisim, or ingrowing depression, in fact it probably made it worse. But he alwasy had that style. He hasn't been doing so well, probably because he is a lazy mothafucker. definately the type that sould only smoke in special occasions or very occasionally

4 (female) has been the only one who's been almost as abusive as me and for as many years. The reason she smokes so much and so often is that she is long engaged to a heavy old school potsmoker. But in the last 2 years, with the kid and all she changed habits. She did not long the herb, as she longed the booze and the ciggies. 4is one of those persons than agrees with alcohol, probably more than me, I mean she has drank a small lake I am sure. She is doing fine, despite little problems of life. Optimist person, fine person.

Reaction: 4 was very silent. too silent. 3 was silent too, but fuck 3 was always silent, and he resonded to you if you talked to him. XR didn't seem to participate a lot to your playful shit when first smoking, but seemed happy. When we noted and asked, why she does not participate more, she honestly said, and I will never forget that, "I want, I try, but you are talking so fast, I cannot make it " . 4 is a person that would be probably fine with smoking much less, as proved with the pregnancy abstinence. Also, 4 is a person , who like 2, was also exposed to often use from the early years even, from drug using partners. while I slowly followed my own path and pattern of use

5: my girlfriend then. she was a bitch, she was always a bitch, and smoking pot didn't make her anyless bitch. The type of person that starts bitching about anything, and try to get the whole group of people go somewhere else cause some detail is a little unfitting. fuck her, we traveled better without her in my point of view. she is married with two kids, but they're having large economical issues.

Good times, good times.... these years, 1998-1999 , it seems like a while life, those two years...

you're asking is there a point in all this?

of course. there's always a point I never make small talk - lol

okey the first year, we had awesome times, okey the second two. then they seemed to do it for its own sake, and it didn't make them happy - it made them VERY un-motivated, and hey, they they were not motivated enough in the first place, only, y'know, motivated enough to pay for the shit or find the shit only to smoke it. What were they expecting. To burst into laughter every time you smoke, jesus. Okey. Why were they doing it? What was the reason? I mean, go back to the begining: why were they doing it again? the essence man, the essence, what did they want to do while on it?

another one

I dont wanna say if I am more successful than them

but like anodyne said

fuck you cannot judge me only be a certain, hm... trait I got, and only that. You have to judge me as a whole a person, who am I, what I was given, what I wanted to archieve, what I have archieved sofar. ..

cannabis is a big part of my life, a big part of who I am.

'problem' is that I have strong tendencies to overdo it

and in least in my part, what I am, and what I have archieved, are not inspite of my heavy use, implying that I could be so much better and archieve so much better if had not become a pothead or if I was even using occasionally. I am like that, in some part because of it, and not despite of it.

And I have even more tendency to overdo it when I am happy.

cross yo fingers, starting tomorrow

PS: sorry for mistakes...

Edited December 12, 2013 by mutant

[-RC-]

On the last page old mate alluded to meditation being possibly beneficial, and, as I have heard a lot of people say, that it may not be easily accessible to him.

My advice on this would be meditation is beneficial for everything. You actually do it now but you don't know it. It is not a matter of getting the right posture and the right practice even. It is about coming to terms with the fact that our Ego does not want meditation, nor does it derive any pleasure from it initially. That's because the act of meditation quietens the Ego and loosens its disproportionate hold on our being.

Again, advice would be to do it first thing after waking up, for as little as a couple of minutes at a time. Leaving it until afternoon or night is fraught simply because tiredness and lethargy are to be expected and Ego will call for bed, or bongs, or bongs then mindless media, then bed.

Forget about adopting a specific rigid practice. Find a comfy chair/cushion whatever, and make it your one seat. Lie down even, who gives a shit? Maybe just start with mindful breathing (counting 1 on the in breath and one on the out, then two, etc. to ten) and try to playfully catch yourself when you wander, then come back to the breath. Closed eyes is probs the best for this. Don't beat yourself up for not getting to ten, because getting to ten is not the goal. CATCHING YOURSELF IS, and more than that, getting familiar with the wandering, impermanent nature of thought is. The goal is knowing how you do you, but more intimately. Even if it is every second day, and irregular, it is still beneficial. As soon as you start your journey inward begins, but the first step is more often than not the hardest.

Many people don't try because they cannot see a way to start, and fear 'doing it wrong'. To that I would say "Ego, just shut the fuck up (gently though ), let's just see what we can see". Many a day I have had to stop and start again at like 4 and 5 because there is just so much monkeying around going on in my mind that it is nigh on impossible to go much further in the time I have allotted for practice. But that's just it. By practicing you can realise "Fucken hell, I'm stirred up today!", and then hopefully begin to penetrate why and how you came to be agitated.

Cannabis is so useful in these situations because it effectively, again in my experience, short cuts that path, by getting you to a state of ease, without actually having to process, or acknowledge, your triggers or underlying states responsible for said agitation. Therefore it can lend itself quite easily to overuse and dependence, because it's easy, and Ego loves easy, because easy doesn't fuck with Ego really.

Night time use is a huge goer in my book, and give yourself the pat on the back because it is well deserved. Cannabis is such a workable drug, and it is sooo easy to spend whole day after day baking and still going about fairly normal shit, but in a much more enjoyable way, that overuse is a HUGE trap, again in my experience.

A wise friend once remarked to me that it also makes easy shit more challenging in a way, so the more mundane aspects of life can somehow be re-enlivened with some element of interest for the daily user, because if you find shit easy that most find hard, many a time you will subconsciously seek out challenges, and ways to re-engage with life. If I have no trouble doing daily house stuff, working my job, and juggling family, maybe I should see if I can do it permanently high? Should be interesting at the least...

Lastly, I think it is helpful to put cannabis use in perspective as well. Health wise (physically) it is, in my book, almost beneficial, depending on the method of ingestion. There are so many more substances out there you could be using that will fuck you up SOOO much more, so take that pat on the back as well. Also, dependence with cannabis can be relatively easily eased. Just be sure of one thing, namely DO YOU REALLY WANT TO STOP? Is it fucking your life up so much that it is the only path open? Would a reigning in not cut it? If not why not? Unless you are pawning your shit and selling your body I would say you're in pretty good shape. You have an issue, you've identified it, and are seeking advice. But as Voltaire once said:

“Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.”

I think there is something in that for all of us..

[mutant]

re: meditation

well these sound like good practical advice for someone who would like to give it a try but still avoids it! Thanks!

very interesting quote

It is about coming to terms with the fact that our Ego does not want meditation, nor does it derive any pleasure from it initially. That's because the act of meditation quietens the Ego and loosens its disproportionate hold on our being.

and also the following remark is gold man

I have thought about it many times, cause I do it in a most sophisticated way, but I guess I was to proud to phrase it like that, say it in words , accept what I have already figured out

A wise friend once remarked to me that it also makes easy shit more challenging in a way, so the more mundane aspects of life can somehow be re-enlivened with some element of interest for the daily user, because if you find shit easy that most find hard, many a time you will subconsciously seek out challenges, and ways to re-engage with life

I definately fall into this category! and I very muvh often seek challenges... hmmm very interesting...

all in all I found your post extremely interesting and I will surely return to it again!

It feels nice to understand some people are really into saying something relevant and constructive

[crikey]

Please someone….end this horrible thread……..what a bunch of fucking rubbish.

"Friend" wtf, this is totally schizoid !

Fucking get off the piss, its the cause of every fuckwits problem, your no different.

Crikey _out!

[crikey]

OP;

Absolute fucking bollocks, grow your own weed, and grow up while your at it……your problems are you are selfish and childish and this is exacerbated by your alcohol abuse.

Go join a church, or a football club, or any other place thats not here…..

oh yeah, and go tell all that to ya "friend'.

[mutant]

hehe

you probably have no life, otherwise you wouldn't make 2 posts in a thread you so deeply believe has to be stopped.

I am selfish and I am childish and I am fucking all the females of your fucking family tree, how do you like that?

The more idiots like you that come to join to throw in their super opinion in this thread of all threads, and try to insult me, the more awesome I feel you know, you are giving me the kind of self-importance I like.

But I have to mention the comment

"go to a church a football club"

Boy this has to be the most extremely stupid comment ever - I mean this is stupidity of gigantic proportions , totally out of place...

wtf a church? and you calling me schizoid? I mean really, a church???

PS: fuck your church, fuck your fucking religion and fuck your fucking god.

PS2: Now come on, increase your post count and see in how many ways me and mi friend can ridicule you...

[Anodyne]

Fucking lol'ing my arse off here. And to think I was arguing against the reintroduction of the "negative" button. After crikeys madly helpful and constructive posts I think I can see the point of them.

"we want to use drugs for a fucking reason"

man this really hit me... and my friend, lol. I would love to see you elaborate more on this subject, by telling some stories maybe. I will do the same.

I'd refrained from putting too much personal stuff (other than the philosophy) in here because I didn't really think it was on-topic. I just meant that drug use isn't a cut-and-dried, always-negative thing. Drugs are neither good nor bad, they are just tools - it all depends how they're used. They can be used for constructive ends. Hell, sometimes just getting really really smashed is all we need - a "holiday from reality", which let's face it really does suck at times - but there can be longer-lasting benefits possible from more uh.. subtle use. I can elaborate, but can you give me a few more hints about what exactly you're interested in?

Mutant, it sounds like the reduction is going well. Your friend sounds happier and seems to be pursuing plenty of creative projects. How do you feel about things now, compared to when you started the thread?

and in least in my part, what I am, and what I have archieved, are not inspite of my heavy use, implying that I could be so much better and archieve so much better if had not become a pothead or if I was even using occasionally. I am like that, in some part because of it, and not despite of it.

Nicely said.

[shonman]

If you want to reduce usage, or anything....coffee, herbs, Kratom, kava, etc.....

Just reduce your dosage a bit each day.....and keep reducing.

That way, you not 'jones ' too hard.

Also, sometimes it helps to use another substance, while quitting the one that is a problem.

Then quit that one too, before using it all the time.

For example, kava can help you relax, if quitting something makes you a nervous wreck.

Like my friends who have quit tobacco.......

[nitrogen]

A deep Ayahuasca journey represented Cannabis to me as a weakening agent, a deformer - deforming of people's deeper vision and clarity, and of their purpose - a sidetracker, a sneaky stealer of dreams - wrapped up in a delicious, fragrant package just like alcohol is..

I noticed with me, the psychedelic parts of cannabis - the seemingly profound insights, turned out to be isolated points of perception - random "deep thoughts" increased, while big-picture vision became murkier and murkier.

This is in stark contrast to the comprehensive 360 degree, holistic awareness and clarity that arises from ayahuasca, mushrooms, and cacti..

Edited December 17, 2013 by nitrogen

[mutant]

thanks nitro. others said stuff about aya too...

in 2007, it had been some 6-7 years I hadn't had any psychedelic, so I went in into a serious argyreia session. they were they same argyreia I am growing now . actually when I had the trip, they were already of a size of a size, those crazy vines, so fucking fast , everyone should see! seed grown....

its funny how my re introdfuction to the world of psychs came with a strong reflection as "you have to stop smokiing so much shit" - yeah there was a big part of the trip revolving round that. this is another story , but I agree psychedelics can give right "suggestions", but its up to you to follow them...

so drunk

Edited December 17, 2013 by mutant

[mutant]

aya .. well I didnt do it yet... neither smeen dimitrizzzz ...

but i did this shit:

{{{LONG LIVE THE KEYBOARD JAMMING SESSIONS}}}

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6074540/2013/az%207500%20%2B%20ef303%20part1.mp3

========live recording, live like live by by own, in my own home , oh!===========

wtf MIDI is about if not to make worthwhile??

roland ef303 , as a sequencer is manipulating the 1990's bontempi's chord/bassline in one of a hell of experimentation!

and as well adds the 303 bassline to the pattern

at first the bontempi is playing by itself and by 0.40 it comes

friend says: "did I tell I used to take low psilocybin doses along with by alcohol-pot binges ? and boy it works! even today. with I had eaten them earlier..... we even used it as plain psychedelic coke, taking care only not to take lots at once or a lot in total.... I am just adding this, so as to know I got a woodlover to also abuse when I feel like. lol "

and while we are at teachers, I would wonder what sally would have to say about all this.....

I am some kind of pussy or what?

MODERATORS ARE MORE THAN WELCOMED TO MOVE THIS IN THE BITCHES SECTION

Edited December 17, 2013 by mutant

[mutant]

friend says:

use is relatively limited. life is busy nowdays and any use is spaced well between activities, if it is to blaze early, but its mostly nights

strange thing is that so many things are hapening now, that its only natural to blaze up only to go on with the flow . especially gardening, now that the GH is on and warm - fuck man, you go in there!, and its cold here now winter and all, and in the GH its awesomely warm if ts a sunny day , so much you wish you were a cactus.... not a plant, cause I am not the best caretaker... but cactus.... you got a good chance you will survive in my GH and also have the chance of you being cloned if you makle it after all!

fuck I wish I had 1000 lifes: one only to talk with you guys about the consequences of overindulnging to cannabis delights and how to overcome them.

and 999 others :

992 of them are me living using cannabis in varius amounts

you ask what about the other 7 lives? well I keep them just in case living w/cannabis just wasn't good for me.... y'know, 7 good last lifes!

Edited December 17, 2013 by mutant

[Subaeruginosin]

A deep Ayahuasca journey represented Cannabis to me as a weakening agent, a deformer - deforming of people's deeper vision and clarity, and of their purpose - a sidetracker, a sneaky stealer of dreams - wrapped up in a delicious, fragrant package just like alcohol is..

I noticed with me, the psychedelic parts of cannabis - the seemingly profound insights, turned out to be isolated points of perception - random "deep thoughts" increased, while big-picture vision became murkier and murkier.

This is in stark contrast to the comprehensive 360 degree, holistic awareness and clarity that arises from ayahuasca, mushrooms, and cacti..

One of the two points you have made is fairly spot on, while the other is completely wrong. imho of course.

The reason I say this, is because I have had the exact same perspective of cannabis represented to me in midst of many psychedelic states. But it wasn't from DMT, psilocybin or even mescaline, but from just good old cannabinoids. Cannabis (including cannabinoids in general) can be an incredibly insightful tool when used properly, personally I think in some ways it's one of the most insightful psychedelics.

Well, I can at least tell you for fact, that never in my whole life has reality and the havoc I've inflicted on my life though drug abuse ever been clearer to me than 4 minutes after I smoked one large cone of code black after not smoking for 6 months straight. As I knelled on my knees in the middle of the room, feeling my heart pounding against my rib cage, thinking this was probably my last moment I had on this earth, every circumstance that had lead me to being a 29 year old man, living in a caravan at the back of my mums house, jobless and without a women or anyone to share my existence with, flashed before my eyes in magnificent clarity at a thousand miles an hour and the path I needed to take to turn my life around had never been more clearer than that moment in time, if only I was going to make it though that terrifying yet oddly amazing experience.

[shonman]

Don't blame the herb, blame yourself.

Or, credit yourself, as the case may be.

[vegetarium]

Mutant, I'm curious. You talk about having regular access to Psilocybes and you've mentioned low dosing them while using weed and alcohol (I'm guessing for the body high and mild euphoria?). But how do you feel about your cannabis use while you're in the depths of a deep mushroom trip? How do you feel about your alcohol use? Do you drink while you trip? I'm guessing you smoke during, most people do.