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The Corroboree
closet hippie

Legal or Not?

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I'm unclear of the law around Spore Prints cubensis types. Now I would love to see these under a microscope but I can't figure out where to start, I hoped I hit the jackpot when I found some type of look-a-little-alikes but it was not the case. I have searched a little and found a lot of yes no, legal illegal, I would I wouldn't etc. in a lot of older posts but none give a definite yes or no answer to my question

I don't have the time to go hunting and I don't wasn’t to be caught snooping around a farmers property for an illegal type mushroom (people are not very open to that type of window) and If I get caught by the police with a handful of them and I say I am collecting them to take home for spore prints he will not be as understanding and caring like my wife LOL. and I have nothing to trade and this is my second post here I am in no place to ask and I figure the reason there is no Australian psilocybin spore shops is that you have to get the print from somewhere and that would be a banned substance so ....

Can I legally buy psilocybin type spore prints for microscopy purpose only from an online overseas dealer or is that a no no due to customs import laws or are spores illegal full stop or where do I stand?

Or any other information that can help me to this path of enlightenment.

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Hi mate, welcome to the boards.

Let me state firstly that I am not a legal professional, and much legislation I find confusing, but I will offer some feedback to your question.

The AQIS ICON Database, in "Plant Prohibitions under Customs" states:

Fungi and plant products prohibited under Customs Regulations

· Chewing tobacco and snuff intended for oral use, imported in an amount weighing more than 1.5 kilograms

· Fungi that contain psilocine or psilocybine

· Herbal smoking products containing synthetic cannabis-like substances

So we need to define whether a spore is considered to contain psilocybine, of which I believe the answer is no. However, you might wish to ask yourself whether you wish to risk being identified as a person of interest.

And don't confuse legal possession with importation. While a plant, seed or spore material may be 100% legal to possess, it doesn't mean that it's legal to import. Either Customs or Quarantine can restrict entry into Australia for various reasons (such as a plant being considered an invasive threat to native flora)

My advice to you would be to stick around, enjoy all that this forum has to offer, maybe even meet some people here. Good things may come to those who are patient.

http://www.aqis.gov.au/icon32/asp/ex_casecontent.asp?intNodeId=8192320&intCommodityId=610&Types=none&WhichQuery=Go+to+full+text&intSearch=1&LogSessionID=0

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An old post of Torsten's on this matter:

There are customs, quarantine, federal drug and state drug laws that apply to this question.

Customs - not specifically scheduled, but the community protection unit will seize spores and CAN raid & prosecute if they find evidence of conspiracy to manufacture a drug. However, this is very unlikely.

Quarantine - this is a prohibited species and blatant import can attract a substantial fine. This is not common, but becomes alwmost guaranteed if there is evidence that the prohibited import was obscured, ie if they feel or can prove that you knew it was wrong and did it anyway.

Federal drug - the possession of spores can always be used as probable cause for a search due to suspicion that there is intent to manufacture a drug. If the search does not gain anything then there is really no legal consequence as far as I can see. ie, owning spores is like owning a condensor - the equipment is legal, but you better have a bloody good reason to own one and also have your house spotless.

State drug - this is where most of the activity is. This is also where soem states are different from others. I don't know all state laws, but i am pretty familiar with Vic, NSW, Qld and ACT. Leaving the conspiracy/intent to manufature aside, the main application of the law is that in most states the possession of spores would be treated about the same as described under the federal section. In most states psilocybin is scheduled and anythign containing it is also scheduled. The spores do not contain any psilocybin (apparently!!) and hence should be legal. However, ACT is different. In the ACT the drug law covers many species of plants, including the genus Psilocybe. That means ALL PARTS of the organism are scheduled. This includes the spores. So, in the ACT the spores are illegal to possess.

There are two main problems to keep an eye on here.

One is that GC/MS technology has become much more sensitive and we may find out one day that sporesdo indeed contains traces of psilocybin. In that case they would be illegal in all states as there is no minimum limit of a drug before it becomes illegal.

The second problem is the changing of the criminal state law. The federal government is trying to get all states to adopt a criminal code similar to a draft prepared by a working group. This draft lists virtually all interesting ethnobotanicals as prohibited plants. The ACT drug law has adopted this draft and hence the list of plants. Victoria has adopted parts of the draft, but not the list - yet. We need to keep a close eye on such changes, as they can come quickly and without any notice.

I would expect that most, if not all states will have adopted the draft in the next 10 years, and with it possibly the full list of plant species.

So getting caught could potentially land you with a $60K+ fine (or whatever ridiculous amount it is up to now), a drug conviction, or, even worse, a 'conspiracy to manufacture' charge. Having said that, people order spores without getting caught all the time, and I would say that in most cases they would just destroy the spores rather than pursue charges (don't quote me on this though).

This community gets a lot of requests for spores from members with only a few posts. Most will not receive spores from anyone as people are wary about sending them to someone who they do not trust or know nothing about. There is no offence intended, and some may even call this behaviour paranoid, but as the above quote shows, the risks are high. Those who hang around and become a part of the community will usually obtain what they seek...

Anyways, welcome onboard mate :) .

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Thank you for your quick and informative replies. So it's as I thought, the government likes to keep everything wishy washy. For the good of the people and the fun and amusement of law enforcement.

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One way you could get around the import problem is build up a good inventory of edible and medicinal spore prints. People are always willing to share/trade for some good "legal" spores

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Yeah I thought as much but I just started looking into Fungi, so I have to start from scratch I was just hoping that I could speed up a collection and experience by buying spore. I do think it is very unsafe that Australia says no to purchasing from a reputable dealer, I have to just have to pick something in the wild and just hope the limited information I can obtain about a species is correct. What happened if I picked up a Death Cap took spores thinking that it was a straw mushroom cultivated it for the purpose of purely cultivating it and one of my kids somehow got to it and I went oh it's ok honey from what I read It is perfectly harmless, now off to bed kids. Or maybe I ate some and thought I'll be ok it's has got to be that chicken we ate like those Chinese a few weeks ago. The government tells you oh be careful you may mistake it http://www.anbg.gov.au/fungi/deathcap.html. I mean if they were legal I could buy certain species and could look at the spore prints spore prints and do some research and then go hunting with some knowledge or go picking come back and if I was unsure I could always get samples and compare.

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I was just hoping that I could speed up a collection and experience by buying spore.

All in good time. One print is ample for research purposes when you are starting out, and it goes a long way.

I do think it is very unsafe that Australia says no to purchasing from a reputable dealer

Smith & Wesson retailers are reputable dealers, does this make it OK for anyone to import a firearm ?

What happened if I picked up a Death Cap took spores

Then I suspect that your rudimentary ID skills are poor, and that perhaps you aren't sure about the direction in which your forthcoming studies are leading towards, species-wise.

The Amanita phalliods (ie Death Cap) requires a specific symbiotic relationship with certain trees, and it is difficult to observe growth outside of these parameters. The more recognisable "classic example" species within this genus, the Amanita muscaria, also requires such a relationship. As such, one would rarely find examples growing outside of these constraints.

The most popular fungi for many hobbyists are select genus withing the Strophariaceae family, which the avid journeyman might find growing in a wide range of mediums. Both the physical & spiritual chacteristics are quite unlike the Amanita, and the likelihood of misidentification should be non-existent. If you don't know the difference, you need to undertake some more research before embarking upon the hobby.

Be safe, man.

Be safe, my friend.

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i probly sound like a dick here but anyway

to me it sounds like you need to do alot more research

you dont just learn to id mushrooms overnight

to me it sounds like your just after a quick easy way to get shrooms to eat

you need to do some research and figure out wat your doing first

you cant expect to just buy a print and bang grow em and your all good

learning to id is the best thing to do first when it comes to mushrooms

you atleast need to know how to id wat your looking for and some possible look alikes

in my opinion

if you cant go out and find wat your looking for when they grow where you live

or dont atleast know enough charecteristics of wat your looking for not to pick something dangerous and eat it

then dont even bother trying to cultivate them

research research research it has to be done

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yeah one spore print is all I need at the moment just really to see what it looks like and if I can cultivate it and if I can learn about what it is etc. but if I screw it up which I will I'm surei will no wait I am sure I already have I wasn't very caring about contaminants but then I wasn't looking at growing it either. It has rained heaps and it is great because it means more chances in my yard. As for the gun remark no that would not be good but If you do want a firearm you can get one yes you do need to prove yourself to get a firearm but you can get one legaly the problems when you have to go underground to get one.

Yes I understand that death cap vs straw mushroom there is obvious differences and was a poor example but It obviously happens. I would think it If i had genuine spores I could see side by side difference.

Thanks for the info to look for specific symbiotic relationship. I was helped by you before thanks I know now that I have to pay more attention to specifics about fungi i am looking at.

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i probly sound like a dick here but anyway

to me it sounds like you need to do alot more research

you dont just learn to id mushrooms overnight

to me it sounds like your just after a quick easy way to get shrooms to eat

you need to do some research and figure out wat your doing first

you cant expect to just buy a print and bang grow em and your all good

Im here to learn and as for a quick and easy way to to get shrooms would be a quick drive to nimbin DAAH but thanks for the advice

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if thats the case then go for a quick drive to nimbin and get fresh shrooms and make lots of prints DAAH :)

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i probly sound like a dick here but anyway

to me it sounds like you need to do alot more research

you dont just learn to id mushrooms overnight

to me it sounds like your just after a quick easy way to get shrooms to eat

you need to do some research and figure out wat your doing first

you cant expect to just buy a print and bang grow em and your all good

learning to id is the best thing to do first when it comes to mushrooms

you atleast need to know how to id wat your looking for and some possible look alikes

in my opinion

if you cant go out and find wat your looking for when they grow where you live

or dont atleast know enough charecteristics of wat your looking for not to pick something dangerous and eat it

then dont even bother trying to cultivate them

research research research it has to be done

Well as for that yes you do sound like a bit of a d!^k head especially when you post this a couple of months after you join.

hey all dont want to ruin this whole trading thing you got goin here

i would love to trade some stuff but have nothing to trade

is there anyone that would like to sell

im looking to get a whole bunch of prints

i want cubes and some of the eastern states variety of subs and some azurescens

again i apolagise for jumping in on your trading you got goin on here

any help would be much apreciated thanks

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No I don't expect to be successful in my first cultivation, but I will think of it as a learning experience and look at it in a positive way woohoo Look honey I grew mould. Well its half way there. And I don't want to cultivate psilocybin containing mushrooms as that would be illegal but a collection of different spores would be really nice, I mean why wouldn't you hallucinogenic stimulants well anything that can alter your mind I find fascinating. And obviously by the prints you were asking to buy you are interested in the same thing I would not assume that you were going to turn your home into a commercial psychedelic enterprise. All I was doing is asking if I could legally obtain spores. I don't want to "go to Nimbin and buy some" because that would be illegal.

I do think the whole drug law is handled very inappropriately and it is obvious we need to change the way we deal with drugs. Most problem drugs are ones that have been synthesised or purified. I mean there is no opium problem but there are opiate derived problems. This forum links straight off shaman australis you could call it a stoner’s paradise but it is not about that.

Dude chill out man your harshing my mellow. LOL I’m into permaculture so I stumbled into mycelia through that and also from a couple of TED talks I watched. I really do think shaman tools can help reach enlightenment if not focus your mind. Also turn you into a drop kick that still live with their mum but there are probably reasons behind that.

Anyway, so myco any tips how I can, not screw up cultivation and any info on king stropharia like ease of growth how long do they take. Etc. What is the easiest thing to cultivate from scratch I’m thinking of trying Leucocoprinus birnbaumii I found a few (hundred) in the park today and nobody freak out I only picked a couple.

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hahaha did you have to read my post a few times to realise wat i said you already qouted part of my post yesterday

first things first im not trying to be a dick dude i thought my post might come across a bit like that

what im getting at is from your first few posts you sound like you have no idea about id'ing mushrooms at all

for a start you do not need to look at a spore print under a microscope to id something

you also say

"I have to just have to pick something in the wild and just hope the limited information I can obtain about a species is correct. What happened if I picked up a Death Cap"

this tells me you dont have the slightest idea of wat your looking for or any traits of cubensis other than maybe looking at a picture

they are not hard to positivlely id and there is only a few factors that really come into play to id this particular fungus

so wat im getting at is that you need to do alot of research

and when they grow where you live you should be able to easily go out and pick some from the wild and you could make as many prints as you want

im not really sure why you brought up my post from the trading thread as it has nothing to do with wat i said to you

i didnt say anything about asking for prints so soon after becoming a member

fact is i obtain prints extremely quickly after becoming a member

and if your implying that i didnt know much before i became a member then thats very very far from the truth

i might have only been a member for a short time but i have had a great interest an studied in mycology on an off for well over 10 yrs

again im not trying to be a dick im just suggesting you should do alot of research

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No I don't expect to be successful in my first cultivation, but I will think of it as a learning experience and look at it in a positive way woohoo Look honey I grew mould. Well its half way there. And I don't want to cultivate psilocybin containing mushrooms as that would be illegal but a collection of different spores would be really nice, I mean why wouldn't you hallucinogenic stimulants well anything that can alter your mind I find fascinating. And obviously by the prints you were asking to buy you are interested in the same thing I would not assume that you were going to turn your home into a commercial psychedelic enterprise. All I was doing is asking if I could legally obtain spores. I don't want to "go to Nimbin and buy some" because that would be illegal.

I do think the whole drug law is handled very inappropriately and it is obvious we need to change the way we deal with drugs. Most problem drugs are ones that have been synthesised or purified. I mean there is no opium problem but there are opiate derived problems. This forum links straight off shaman australis you could call it a stoner’s paradise but it is not about that.

Dude chill out man your harshing my mellow. LOL I’m into permaculture so I stumbled into mycelia through that and also from a couple of TED talks I watched. I really do think shaman tools can help reach enlightenment if not focus your mind. Also turn you into a drop kick that still live with their mum but there are probably reasons behind that.

Anyway, so myco any tips how I can, not screw up cultivation and any info on king stropharia like ease of growth how long do they take. Etc. What is the easiest thing to cultivate from scratch I’m thinking of trying Leucocoprinus birnbaumii I found a few (hundred) in the park today and nobody freak out I only picked a couple.

i dont have alot of advice in the way of cultivation sorry man all i can say is keep things sterile and when your dealing with wild prints expect to be trying alot of prints to get a clean one unless you are planning on trying to isolate it on agar

good luck mate its a very fun hobby and once you get it sussed and get into it

it can be very rewarding :)

p.s. apolagies for sounding like a rude dickhead im really not :)

Edited by myco

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Dude chill out man your harshing my mellow.

That is an outstanding response. I may add that to my signature !

No need to keep hammering closet hippie, I think. I'm all for heated discussions, but let's not slam the newbie until he settles in LOL Myco, your most recent statements above is a nice peacemaker.

Closet Hippie, some people might be reading between the lines on your first post, and suspect that you really do want to grow psychoactive mushrooms. And you know what ? That's A-OK, thousands of people are doing it here. You conformed to the forum rules by not incriminating yourself, and that's a lot more than other new posters do. You seem well aware of the community's desire to be discreet, and that's great.

BUT...... your reference to death caps reads like perhaps you were thinking of growing Amanita. Not only can it not be done (generally speaking) but there are dangers if you dont prepare them properly, and the experience from eating Amanita is not the most sought-after journey for everyone. It should be stated that the Death Cap should never be eaten, but the Fly-Agaric is the one people sometimes eat - once they are 110% educated on the pastime. Im not kidding with this.

I think maybe myco originally approached this with the same feelings that I had.... that you need a little bit of knowledge of what youre after. Lots and lots of people who cultivate psychoactive mushrooms in countries where legal, do so with Cubensis. They are very safe by comparison, and very enjoyable to consume. SO really, dont get too angry, in his own way he was contributing towards harm minimisation for you.

Do you want to grow, it sounds like it now ? If you want to cut your teeth on some common ones, and work onn your sterile technique, you could always get some fresh oyster mushrooms from your local market, read up on tissue culturing, and get started that way. Then when some more interesting species do arrive you will have had a bit of a head start on the hobby (even though growing parameters are a bit different.

I should mention that Im in no way an experienced grower, but Im not relly offering any real growing advice.

All the best, and I hope you stick around.

In countries where it is illegal, amateur microsophists (hmmm, real word?) might still enjoy looking at the spores, so I think tht your original *stated* intention is fine

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the death cap thing was just an example. And i heard that Fly-Agaric is like datura (no fun unless very experienced). Sorry for the issues but it has been fun.lol Icould say more but I talk too much anyway. and i feel this is getting a little off the topic.

Sorry for not explaining my intentions a little more, I just really wanted a quick answer. I didn't think people might get a little funny from what I was asking. Anyway I have to say It's been raining for a couple of days now and I went for a walk with the kids and all I can say is Fu#K me i'v never noticed there is different mushrooms everywhere. well daah

OH yeah I am going to try and grow now soooo much to go wrong I like the challenge.

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Fly-Agaric is like datura

My goodness, you ID skills are worse than I assumed :) :) (gotta love out-of-context quoting)

Not trying to shoo you away, but go and check out that site I recommended to you privately. They are all very open about their activities, and there's a shit-ton of information for the home grower, and also some very well-regarded experts. You do have to wade through a lot of off-topic bullshit though.

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When I first started out hunting mushrooms in the wild, it was half a world away and I was quite gung-ho about it. I devoured every book I could get my hands on and figured it all out from some very sketchy writing and poor photography. We didn't have the internet in those days, and I had never heard of a spore print, but I got to know all my local mushrooms over a few years simply by getting out and observing it all. Then my interests changed, and I moved to Australia and now my knowledge of local mushrooms is quite slim :huh:

But the very basis of your discovery is to see which ones are the most deadly and work back from there. There are a small number which will kill you very quickly (and very unpleasantly), there are many more which will make you quite sick, sometimes fatally if you ingest enough. There are many more which are edible, some incredibly tasty, and there are those which are not identified yet.

For example, you should know exactly what a Death Cap is, what it looks like, where it grows, how it behaves. You will have identified one in the wild for certain before you ever pick another mushroom to eat. This might sound extreme, but it's a poretty sensible way to do your business, unless you want to risk getting very sick.

Even then, things can get pretty strange. Just recently, I went mushrooming with a trusted friend and we picked up some saffron milky caps - really easy to id, known to grow in the area, collected by someone who picks and eats them every year. He and his girl were both fine, but both me and my girl felt very ill after our meal. Was it the mushrooms? Was it somethinhg else in the food? Are we sensitive to something in the mushroom? It was very odd, as neither of us get easily sick this way. Other things can go wrong too, I remember way back in the day where some shrooms were ingested for pleasurable purposes and the people involved all became unusually sick, and it was decided that something else had gotten in. Some mushrooms look very similar, and I guess this is where the spore prints come in.

Mushrooms are amazing, but then so is sailing but you wouldn't want to go sailing in a leaky boat with no map and a captain who couldn't tell which way the wind was blowing, would you?

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I had the same problem eating saffies the first time I tried..Then explored an opportunity: before the cooking - boiling them for 3-5 min and discarded the watter.. :)

Worked for me ..

I reckon everything with the mushrooms is a personal experience..

Especially the responsibility ..

Best regards

B.

Edited by mysubtleascention
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