Girl dies after Big Day Out overdose

[Smiling Cloud]

When they say her death was a result of a 'bad batch of drugs' rather than the fear caused by dogs being there is this not an open admission of bad policy? It seems they are saying that if roche (or any other pharmacuetical company) was making these things then it wouldn't have happened. Whenver i see a story like this they always say something like "you just don't don't know what you're taking', i just can't understand how these guys don't actually see that it would be a GOOD thing to LET people know what they're taking.

At least if ecstasy were legal and you had to go to the doctor to get it, the person getting it would know if they were healthy enough to take it. Maybe if they were going to take it they could have a card in there wallet saying what they had eaten so that if they did drop they could be helped accordingly.

I'm sure there would still be deaths associated with ecstasy but it would be alot less than what we have now. Some people are not meant for stimulants, i read in the paper not 4 days ago about ANOTHER person dying from drinking FOUR CANS OF V!!! THis person had one more can than the girl who died had eccies yet most people would consider caffeine a relatively safe compund. Actually when i looked up the LD50s for both the compounds they are quite close 80mg/kg for mdma and 100mg/kg for caffeine. (BTW that was a quick search and could very well be WRONG). Another site said that most deaths associated from mdma are attributed to over-heating and water intoxication, and that it is very hard to overdose on the compound itslef without other factors (again this was a quick search and i could well be wrong). So it would seem that it may well have been a bad batch or maybe she was one of those people who can;t handle stims. Either way, if the substance was regulated this death probably wouldn't have happened.

Anyway, i just wanted to point out that whatever they say it can be used as an argument for regulation. Prohibition just seems to kill innocent people. My heart goes out to the family of this young girl and i really hope one day this sort of thing will not happen.

[faustus]

idiosyncratic reactions to a drug will always occur in some individuals, even with pharmaceutical grade drug. if i had to guess i'd say overheating for this girl.

PS the best thing to drink when on MDMA are those sports drinks like gatorade, powerade as you lose the electrolytes in your body due to sweat. plain water can result in more dilution of these electrolytes, potentially resulting in death via hyponatraemia

[JDanger]

I had no idea hyponatraemia was caused by lack of electrolites. Learn something new every day...

Gatorade might have a new marketing campaign on their hands.

[FancyPants]

Hyponatraemia, hypokalaemia (low potassium) can also be caused by no food intake, and high fluid intake. Particularly bad if you're vomiting a lot. I've had the problem twice, from severe infections - one of which had gone systemic. Basically stop the heart muscles working even when you've had no previous heart problems (which I don't). Arterial Blood Gas tests where they take blood samples from arteries instead of veins f***in' HURT.

Basically I'm saying those symptoms that people can die from "ecstasy" OD can actually occur relatively easily through other non-drug-induced ways. If you're vomiting a lot and not keeping anything down, you should definitely go to hospital.

[John Smith]

It took some time but I'd managed to supress my anger over this incident...then I stumbled across this thread.

I was there and knew the dogs might be. If I'd been carrying ecstasy one option that might have crossed my mind had I had a close encounter of the dog kind would have been to eat the lot - and I'm well and truly old enough and educated enough to know the risks etc. If I could think of it beforehand then surely the coppers could have. I have no doubt that very many people did the same thing. If I had been carrying ecstasy I probably would have found a better option though.

I have only skim read the 3 pages of this thread and there are some points I didn't see mentioned, one of which I find very very smelly.

The dogs were at the fucking train station!!! Many of these people were simply trying to be responsible. Next year they need not bother with dogs at the station because everyone will drive there, eat their drugs and then drive home. The police really are geniuses sometimes. Disagree as I might, they could have at least mounted some sort of argument for having dogs inside the BDO...but at the train station?!

In their pathetic attempts to justify this crap they spouted some rubbish about catching dealers. How many drug dealers catch trains to peddle their wares at a big event? There were something like 60 arrests and of those 4 were charged with intent to supply - the big bust of the day, a guy who had 16 pills. I bet he tried to tell them they were just for him and a couple of his mates. Yeah right son, you are the Mr Big we've been looking for. This crap did not put a dent in the supply or demand for drugs in Perth and was a gross misuse of resources and taxpayers money.

The really stinky part? In days following this tradgedy I read a comment on a blog suggesting that this was a stunt by the WA Police Commissioner Karl O'Callahan to show that he is tough on law & order because he intends to enter politics when his contract expires. I dismissed it at first but then a couple of days later he is on talk back radio talking about how he would like to see people who are doing community service wear vests indicating that. Now I happen to think that is a great idea and I think he HAD been doing a great job, but WTF has this sort of thing go to do with the police commissioner? I thought policy like that is up to the lawmakers, not the bloke we employ to enforce the law.

I am now convince that this is all about him entering politics. Last weekend the coppers had a major excercise in Northbridge (our major nightlife district). It was very high profile news. Mr & Mrs Ignorant Voter would have felt all warm and fuzzy. Gee that Commish would make a great Premier.

If he does enter politics, I hope everyone screams from the roof tops because his politically motivated actions contributed to the death of a 17 year old girl. Not to mention the massive waste of taxpayers money for political gain. Apparently there were 100 police officers and 6 dogs at the train station alone, yet we keep hearing the police service is underfunded. I look forward to a huge redution in real crimes.

EDIT: and I forgot...why haven't we heard what was in the "ecstasy" pills that "killed" Gemma? It shits me to tears - a few years ago during schoolies there was a similar incident. Then weeks later a tiny 2 linearticle on page 300 on the newspaper mentions that the pills contained PMA this was the cause of death.

Edited February 25, 2009 by John Smith

[Neoshaman]

the pig at soundwave with the dog wasn't overly impressed with me asking how many children they hoped to kill today i didn't really want to stick round too long wasn't really keen on be detained while they worked out what the fuck my Kanna /justica mix was or my concoction of herbs rolled into cigarettes was actaully all legal.

Another thought i've been having is dog hormone available and if so would it be effective to spary over a large area that the police dogs were patrolling if the muts go sex crazy there not really going to worry about sniffing for drugs there has to be a way to make these type of police activities completely ineffective without breaking the law

[botanicalSEEKER]

Education and Regulation is what is needed. The problem with drugs is very complex that touches all sections of society, the government is running an overwhelming PR campaign against X, a easy example is the naming of the pills as MDMA , not just a x pill. They are demonizing a synthetic substance and saying it will ruin lives eg this girl at the BDO.

Really what we need is chemists with morals, not just dollar signs in their eyes. The adulterants in pills these days are numerous and sometimes harmfull when they interact after digestion, or interact with some other medication the user is taking.

The police are doing there job just like everyone else does when they work, the police may be employing the wrong tactics when it comes to drugs but policy is not up to them, all they do is enforce it. I'm sure a drug cruisader will come along one day and liberate our once had personal freedoms and with it our right reach any mental plain short of crazy! Its up to the people in positions of power that can make a difference to redirect the policy direction and bring drug laws out of the dark ages.

pce and jah wisdom

[Neoshaman]

Really what we need is chemists with morals, not just dollar signs in their eyes. The adulterants in pills these days are numerous and sometimes harmfull when they interact after digestion, or interact with some other medication the user is taking.

Lets face it while ever the vast majority of pills are made by bikies and other criminal organistations there will be very few chemists with morals there either chemist that are scared shitless or as you said chemist with dollar signs until organised crime is removed from the equation The danger of taking such substances is increased ten fold probably more

The police are doing there job just like everyone else does when they work, the police may be employing the wrong tactics when it comes to drugs but policy is not up to them, all they do is enforce it. I'm sure a drug cruisader will come along one day and liberate our once had personal freedoms and with it our right reach any mental plain short of crazy! Its up to the people in positions of power that can make a difference to redirect the policy direction and bring drug laws out of the dark ages.

If the police were doing their job they would be going after the real; criminals at the top of the supply chain nota targetting individual users, yes the wankers in parliment make the laws but the police decide how to approach each situation , It was a police decision to use dogs, hence they are just as responsible as the arseholes that made the legislation that allow it

[botanicalSEEKER]

The vast majority of pills are imported, the small percentage made in the homeland yes are most probably made by criminal organizations. I was just musing with the idea that people who have progressed to point of synthing x could have some moral obligation to users, i remember hive members chanting this old song over and over. its a silly idea i know but maybe one day when drugs are not so restricted this may happen.

I am no expert in police tactic or policy, but it seems logical from the polices standpoint to use dogs. This is to say it would be inefficient frisking everyone at the door, dogs allow better detection and less invasion of personal property and rights. Police now more than ever are been pressed to do more and more about drugs but at the same time a compromise has to be made to stop destroying the festival atmosphere. I agree that the police should be going after the big fish but, if they seem to do nothing at a community level the groups and political support they have may wander.We hear more about these events such as this girl at the BDO than about big fish getting fried .The police are more about PR and saving face than doing real work....

[mac]

Another thought i've been having is dog hormone available and if so would it be effective to spary over a large area that the police dogs were patrolling if the muts go sex crazy there not really going to worry about sniffing for drugs there has to be a way to make these type of police activities

someone should try covering their clothing in citronella or spray bottles with a citronella brew isn't that what they use in the sound activated anti bark collars work ? the dogs hate the smell so tend to stop barking ?

Edited February 26, 2009 by mac

[Neoshaman]

The vast majority of pills are imported, the small percentage made in the homeland yes are most probably made by criminal organizations.

I would have agreed with you about 10 or so years ago however i think you would be quite surprised at the amount that are manufactured here I use to be really into the scence about 8 to 10 years ago and there was some decenty quality stuff floating round but now it may be different where you are but certainly in my local region the vast majority are nasty locally manufactured crap that no one with half a brain would even bother with I imagine this would be the case in many other parts of Australia also but i'm just speculating based on my personal observations

I am no expert in police tactic or policy, but it seems logical from the polices standpoint to use dogs. This is to say it would be inefficient frisking everyone at the door, dogs allow better detection and less invasion of personal property and rights. Police now more than ever are been pressed to do more and more about drugs but at the same time a compromise has to be made to stop destroying the festival atmosphere. I agree that the police should be going after the big fish but, if they seem to do nothing at a community level the groups and political support they have may wander.We hear more about these events such as this girl at the BDO than about big fish getting fried .The police are more about PR and saving face than doing real work....

Personally i think any police activity targeted at individual users is highly unethical not to mention dangerous , next they'll be doing crackdown on all those evil criminals who grow their own weed , on second thoughts didn't i just read that in another post about South Australia , a vast majority of the community who support such police action are grossly misinformed about drugs and the police using this as an exciuse to target young people at festivals is scum to say the least. Personal use is a personal choice it harms no one else why should otherwise productive memebers of society be treated like criminals duue to the fucked up moral values of a bunch of conservative old fuckwits personally i love giving LEAP flyers out to police officers most don't respond pleasantly but occasionally you get a beak through and one or two of them realise how much of a fuckin tool they are

[botanicalSEEKER]

Neo your a very adamant opponent of the police when it comes to drugs and well thank you for that. Its good to see that people out there are waking up to the injustices of Australian drug law.And informing the general public as you say is essential to overcoming drug stereotyping. Again ill say the pigs are all about saving face, seeming to do something while they are infact doing very little. I also agree with the you on personal use, drug convictions can be very damaging to a persons future. Infact a few friends are in this boat now one was allegedly found with <1.5g of and i quote "cannabis leaf" and was handed a drug conviction AND THEY DID NOT ALLOW A SPENT CONVICTION!. The drug system is a lovely thing.

"

I would have agreed with you about 10 or so years ago however i think you would be quite surprised at the amount that are manufactured here I use to be really into the scence about 8 to 10 years ago and there was some decenty quality stuff floating round but now it may be different where you are but certainly in my local region the vast majority are nasty locally manufactured crap that no one with half a brain would even bother with I imagine this would be the case in many other parts of Australia also but i'm just speculating based on my personal observations"

There was an element in WA that produced but it was very small and very seclusive(must know them, be in with them etc etc) but in the past 10 or so years there has been a myriad of new laws PACIA agreement for example, eud's etc etc and this has slowed down at home production to near nil in the scale of things. It seems these days like you have said any twit with a pill press and half a brain can pop out batches containing anything from chalk to PMA to DXM. A very interesting topic of late and was around in the hive days was "piperonal", this may be the new one for bee's.