Psychotria viridis twins?

[Elrik]

Hello

I am confused by chacruna. Two months ago I planted several crushed berries and now two seed have sprouted each with two stems! One stem has removed itself from the seed coat and its twin still seems to have complete cotyledons inside the seed. Several other normal seeds have sprouted also.

Can two genetically distinct embryos grow and develop from one seed or are these pairs some kind of identical twins? Will it ever be possible to know? I do not have electrophoresis ability.

[Entheopedia.Org]

They look like they are coming along nicely.

All my plants are from leaf cuttings. So i have no experience with seeds, but the berries usually have two seeds in each one. They are probably the sprouts from two seeds in the berry and not twins.

Two of my plants are starting to flower. Maybe someday soon ill get to try it from seed. Good luck!

Hello

I am confused by chacruna. Two months ago I planted several crushed berries and now two seed have sprouted each with two stems! One stem has removed itself from the seed coat and its twin still seems to have complete cotyledons inside the seed. Several other normal seeds have sprouted also.

Can two genetically distinct embryos grow and develop from one seed or are these pairs some kind of identical twins? Will it ever be possible to know? I do not have electrophoresis ability.

[Elrik]

That was my first thought as well but each seed coat is very clearly radiused and textured on one side and flat and smooth on the other with both seedlings comming out of the same hole. So its not even two seeds that fused, the flat side shows that each one is one of a pair of seeds. Very strange.

[Teotzlcoatl]

Must be some sort of twin then...

Growing Psychotria from seed brings up an interesting subject.

How variable is the DMT in the leaves?

[Auxin]

Given that it is most likely an almost entirely undomesticated and non-inbred crop natural variation is likely, and the chemical analyzes support that.

As far as I've read P. viridis farms are an extremely recent occurrence and in more traditional settings plants would be sought out in the wild locally and possibly transplanted closer allowing for a minimalist domestication only right next to villages.

Given the high numbers of P. alba and P. carthaginensis on the market as P. viridis there sure doesnt seem to be a large coordinated effort at spreading superior chemotypes...yet

Those twins are pretty cool dude, be sure to label and track them.

[t st tantra]

it seems to me content is variable and there seem to be plants with none or little.

it may appear with the maturity of the plant.

sometimes aya is introduced in stages,one stage can be using a psychotria known to be inactive.this may explain some confusion about psychotria sp used in aya.

t s t .

[transDiMenTional]

interesting tst. where does this information come from? v curious..

ive seen twins before but not from psychotria

[t st tantra]

i'll look around for it, seen it in a few sources....cant remember off hand.....rastch was the last thing i read but thats gone back to its home...something i read recently confirmed it but forget what....

t s t .

[Teotzlcoatl]

Given that it is most likely an almost entirely undomesticated and non-inbred crop natural variation is likely, and the chemical analyzes support that.

As far as I've read P. viridis farms are an extremely recent occurrence and in more traditional settings plants would be sought out in the wild locally and possibly transplanted closer allowing for a minimalist domestication only right next to villages.

Given the high numbers of P. alba and P. carthaginensis on the market as P. viridis there sure doesnt seem to be a large coordinated effort at spreading superior chemotypes...yet

That's what I was thinking....

Perhaps we can start cultivating potent strains.

[Elrik]

sometimes aya is introduced in stages,one stage can be using a psychotria known to be inactive.this may explain some confusion about psychotria sp used in aya.

This could possibly explain why carthaginensis was introduced to the west as chacruna. Its very weak but would still give the experience the 'DMT flavour' to prepare beginners for alba or viridis.

[t st tantra]

some quotes from trouts aya analogs.....

on viridis

Published analysis:

Most are fairly potent [reported values of 0.10-0.34% by dry wt.; i.e 100 to 340 mg of DMT per 100 grams of dry leaf.] but some entirely lack DMT. Some contain 2-Methyl-1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-β-carboline, some contain MMT. Individuals have been found with 1, 2 or all three.

and also...........

Comments on the commercially available admixture choices

Many species can, in theory, serve as the active tryptamine component in ayahuasca analogs.

In reality, most contain too little alkaloid to be effective, while many others contain toxic and/or other undesirable alkaloids and require purification to make them safe. Even the species which produce useable amounts of DMT or 5-MeO-DMT have not infrequently been reported to produce them in variable amounts or show fluctuations in alkaloid content based on many factors or even to not produce them at all.

Besides a strong genetic influence, time of day, season, age of material, the available nitrogen, the form of nitrogen, the ambient temperature, the weather, the light intensity and other factors have been quantified and reported piecemeal but much is still not adequately understood.

At least several plants containing DMT and/or 5-MeO-DMT are known to be used for entheogenic purposes other than ayahuasca and have also entered into use as ayahuasca admixtures (at least in modern times).

phalaris is more researched than most and this talks about the great variability found there.....

http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online..._phalaris.shtml

t s t .

Edited June 19, 2008 by t st tantra