DMT Plants - continued..

[Guest onemind]

Hi,

I just found this page on a cached dmt world forum.

BEST DMT PLANTS

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Mimosa Hostilis has 0.57% in the rootbark, but is tropical, takes quite awhile to get a large enough root to be worth harvesting, then of course the product is underground!

1 Kilogram->5-1/2 grams DMT!

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Psychotria Viridis DMT leaf concentration is about a third(0.2%) of Mimosa Hostilis rootbark(0.57%). You'd have to do a defatting step before basifying though, since leaves have lots of chlorophyll and misc stuff you wouldn't want. Also very tropical(indoors only).

1 Kilogram->2 grams DMT!

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Forget Phalaris. Extremely variable alkaloid content and DMT isn't the dominant alkaloid. Stuff of myths.

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Acacia Obtusifolia looks really interesting since it has 0.45% in the bark and 0.3% in the dried young shoots. And it can take moderate winters (frosts and occasional light snow).

1 Kilogram branch bark -> 4-1/2 grams DMT!

Hopefully 1 Kilogram mature leaf-> 2 grams DMT?

Got some seeds I'm gonna plant soon...

Is Phalaris really the stuff of myths? Worth bothering about?

I know i keep asking but all sources seem to contradict each other

[indigo264nm]

Obtus is hands down best bet in Aus and from what I know phlaris it's not worth bothering about. Bark and rootbark in obtus is hypothetically harvested for extractions - leaves aren't bothered with to my knowledge.

[Guest onemind]

Cheers Indigo,

So theoreticaly you can use pretty much the whole tree, roots, bark and leaves. On a young tree, say 1 year old, will it have dmt? Or do they need to get old? Or has does nobody know

[noun]

Regarding Phalaris, you may want to check this out http://peyote.com/jonstef/phalaris.htm could be of interest.

[alkatrope]

Cheers Indigo,

So theoreticaly you can use pretty much the whole tree, roots, bark and leaves. On a young tree, say 1 year old, will it have dmt? Or do they need to get old? Or has does nobody know

Yeah I'd guess a one year old would have some level of DMT, but at that age I'd strongly recommend it isn't worth harvesting..

[occidentalis]

The often repeated belief is that young plants do not produce as much alkaloid as older ones, but I haven't tested this carefully myself.

[Auxin]

Desmanthus illinoensis is another one with DMT but its content is usually drastically overstated.

Psychotria viridis is a classic, but very rare- Psychotria carthaginensis seems more common but is in the area of 0.04% if I remember correctly... still a good ethnobotanical ornamental.

Phyllodium pulchellum (syn. Desmodium pulchellum) has an impressive profile for those who dont mind 5-MeODMT being in their ornamentals but it seems to be intensely rare, I cant find it anywhere

Desmodium gangeticum is often quoted as a potential source but concentration is reported to be quite low- still a nice ethnobotanical ornamental (I harvested seed but decided I better test viability before sending any to AFSR, they looked a bit green )

Phalaris brachystachys is supposedly superior to all other known DMT containing Phalaris species but actual quantitative data is very lacking (next year I should be getting 1 or 2 rare P. brachystachys strains of unknown alkaloid content, hopefully enough for AFSR to get some... I sent some rare unbred Phalaris aquatica and arundinacea strains to NNFSR a month ago but *Cough* I dont think Rev checks his PO box much )

[Coschi]

Still no mention of maidenii..

I heard swim went for a trip recently and came back with approx 20 kilos of mature (~20 year old) maidenii bark.. swim's waiting for a dream to come to him where he will finally know whether maidenii is a viable source of alkaloids or not, we'll just have to wait and see i guess...

FYI maidenii has 0.24% NMT and 0.36% DMT in the trunk bark

[occidentalis]

Still no mention of maidenii..

I heard swim went for a trip recently and came back with approx 20 kilos of mature (~20 year old) maidenii bark.. swim's waiting for a dream to come to him where he will finally know whether maidenii is a viable source of alkaloids or not, we'll just have to wait and see i guess...

FYI maidenii has 0.24% NMT and 0.36% DMT in the trunk bark

From what I hear the problem with maidenii is that it's highly variable. There may be some good trees but you never know what you're going to get.

20 kg should give swiy a pretty reliable assay .

[dc]

has anyone tried working with Petalostylis labicheoides (butterfly bush) the australian native yet ??

http://www.herbalistics.com.au/shop/produc...products_id=252

[naja naja]

Phragmites communis (AKA P. Australis)

A threshold dose

Substances: Phragmites communis, Peganum harmala

This morning I was greeted by an incredible phone call. A friend of mine had completed his experiments with Phragmites communis (also known as Phragmites australis in Ott's literature).

This is the story he told me:

"I went out to a local marsh area and harvested about 700g of Phragmite rhizome (wet weight). I seperated out 200g (also wet weight) and shreded it. I then boiled t for 3 hours in filtered water and some lemon juice. Then I put it in a glass dish and evaporated it in an oven on low with the door open and then gelcapped it.

To be conservative I started with one gelcap equaling aprx. 25g wet weight. Of course 3g rue extracted likewise was ingested 20min beforehand. in as little as 4 minutes I noticed effects that began to distinguish themselves from the rue. I waited to confirm this and it was indeed a threshold dose. I proceeded to take another gelcap (hearafter 1gelcap=25g wet weight of Phragmites extracted) This one hit me in about 8 minutes. Vision became alive, everything was pulsating and vibrating. Auras were now present. Colors were intensified. All while my thinking was very clear.

After enjoying this for a bit I proceeded to take another gelcap and another one after that one in about 20min. I felt no strong effect from these next two gelcaps. This made me wonder if it is like smoked DMT where you have to take it all at once or it won't work. Seeing I doubled my dose w/o feeling a thing makes me think that it is very important to take doses very close to one another and at the begginging of the experience. The last 2 gelcaps I used seemed to only lengthen the experience, not increase the intensity."

It appears also when I asked my friend if it contained DMT, 5-Meo, and/or Bufotenine, he told me since he had not tried any thing but mimosa and desmanthus in the past he did not know what 5-meo or bufotenine felt like. He did say though that it was remarkedly simmilar to his other experiences and compared it with about 8g mimosa.

And for comparison to dry weight dosages he told me he had dried out 100g of rhizome and dry it weighed about 45g.

I am still reeling of the information he imparted upon me. It seems there was no Bufo which is what scared me off of experimenting with it till now. Also that it is incredibly potent comparitively. 50g fresh seems to be good start.

[Fenris]

Given that Perth is pretty much sitting on a swamp, would the local swamps ( I am thinking Herdsman lake here) be a very good place to have a look?

Is Phragmites prevalent in WA? Everything I googled mentioned NSW because as we all know WA is just the figment of someones imagination and doesn't really exist, so isn't worth mentioning.

I cant wait to get home and put on the welly boots and have a look.

[Northern Gnome]

This post is not an answer to the last post in this thread but I thought I'd chime in with a new extraction method.

I am not in Australia and would not want to suggest anyone use this method with certain plants which might be illegal to extract the alkaloids, but for those legal alkaloids this method appears to be higher yielding in a hurry than other methods:

i.e., for 250 grams of powdered root bark:

Dissolve 9 table spoons of NaOH into 500 ml of water (this is probably way overkill) and then mix 500 ml of acetone into the basified water and (edit: while still hot from the chemical reaction of lye dissolving into the water) pour the mix into a bowl containing the root bark powder, mix for however long it takes to thoroughly soup up the root bark, adding another cup of water if necessary to keep the aqueous mix fairly thin.

Pour in 250 ml of naphtha, stir for 20 minutes, let settle, pour the solvent off of the top out into an evaporation container and evaporate all of the solvent down to a syrup. Next, extract the syrup with fresh room temperature naphtha, stirring it into the syrup, pouring off into a collection container, pouring in more naphtha and re-extracting the red syrup three or four times over.

Evaporate all of the naphtha you have collected, you will be surprised at the yield.

This process has not been worked up into a refined tech yet and I have some question now about chemical compatibilities but I just wanted to get it out on this forum for all you mates down south.

Edited November 3, 2006 by Northern Gnome

[Northern Gnome]

Each time you stir fresh solvent into the red syrup it may take five minutes for the red stuff to fall to the bottom again and clear out of the naphtha. When you stir it up the naphtha will take on the same red color as the syrup but should clear to a yellow color before you pour it off. Don't let the red stuff go out with the naphtha as it contains impurities, what they are I don't know but there is a load of it in the particular root bark I am working with.

Edit, more on this process:

I don't know for sure what is going on with this process that well yet, or whether the acetone might eventually form an upper layer of solvent when so much NaOH is mixed into the water or not but acetone is not normally miscible in water. I have not observed what is going on with this method enough to get a handle on what is actually happening, but I poured naphtha into the mix and stirred it for a few minutes before separating the solvent on top off for evaporation which produced the red syrup which then extracted so nicely with room temperature naptha producing a large yield for one pull. Even though I believe I poured mostly naphtha off of the top of the aqueous mix of root bark the solvent also had a very strong acetone smell, making me think some of the acetone had somehow mixed into the naphtha.

This method needs refinement, I don't know the best ratio of water and acetone or the minimal amount of NaOH but what I did sure worked well for me on 250 grams of root bark yielding a weight of 2 grams fairly pure light yellow colored alkaloid after a freeze precip refinement from the first pull.

Edited November 3, 2006 by Northern Gnome

[Auxin]

acetone is incompatible with strong base, that extraction method would be heavily contaminated with diacetone alcohol and/or mesityl oxide, it would need a minimum of one A/B with defat or else even with the freeze precip method the product would be contaminated to some degree.

[Northern Gnome]

I was wondering what kind of compatability it had, it sizzled a bit when adding to the basified water but sure pulled out lots of red goo which extracted much better than any other method as far as amount of alkaloid obtained after a freeze precipitation.

I could run it through an A-B but it sure looks pure enough as is, forming crystals when evaporating out of naphtha. I wouldn't want to bio test it with mesityl oxide in it from what I have found on the net about that chemical. Perhaps this would be better done with a mix of some other solvent and NaOH with water? The root bark was mixed into the solvent/water hot, I forgot to mention it was still hot from the chemical reaction of dissolving the lye into the water and just edited that into the first post on this.

Edited November 3, 2006 by Northern Gnome

[spice]

In theory what would the most common dmt plants in WA be? Apart from Phragmites Australis of course.

[naja naja]

In theory what would the most common dmt plants in WA be? Apart from Phragmites Australis of course.

LOL

Phalaris There's paddocks full, just go pinch a whole bail once it's all bailed up. I found it in a 5 min walk on my property.

I'm sure atleast one of our wattles would have decent amounts, we just need sum sum easy to use colour tests and find a few dedicated extractors, who can correctly I.D. specific Acacias and do analysis on these.

as far as how common Phragmites is........ I saw it first at bunbury, just as u turn off roundabout and head towards perth there's a large bunch on the north river bank under the traffic bridge. After that, I saw it all the way to perth, alot near the salt flats at the south end of freeway(steakhill rd) and every swamp and creek system I saw was packed with it.

[occidentalis]

There are plenty of WA juliaflorae. Get out there and do some testing.

[spice]

Alright, so how would one go about testing for tryptamines?

[planthelper]

teo and others probably could answere this in more detail, but i have a quick crack about it.

first we know that all dmt acacias discoverd till now have 5 petals and cylindrical flowers (never just 4 petals and pompom round flowers).

than is the burn test, phylodes if burned, or better smoldered will release the typical dmt smell, same with the bark if you would say apply friction to the latter.

than there are several quick test's which give you indication if a plant contains alkaloids.

and the best methode is to perform an acid/base extraction, which might yield alkaloids.

i think this is not against the law, but once you find say dmt you would break the law if you would do it again.

finding dmt in new acacias is not a very rare occurence. as a shaman one sort of develops a deep bond with plants and they seem to tell you if they have it or not. i found twice alkaloids in "new" acacias, the first time was dmt, the second i am not sure what it is and my instincts told me never to test the material on myselfe, as it could be a poison.