Ok punks. (Especially you Wira) :)

[Guest Pigdog]

Who knows anything about making chimo here?

What I want to know specifically, is whether there is a "time-limit" on boiling the tobacco down, after which you end up boiling all the nicotine etc dead.

For the past 3-4 batches I have just simmered the arse out of it for around 4 hours, I'm wondering now, if this's too long, as it normally takes about 3 matchheads worth per dose to make me feel it.

I ask you specifically Wira cos you're always giving 3 page mega-replies, don't fail us now!!!

Going to chop it into a pot right now so hopefully you'll reply sometime umm soon!

--Pigdog

[Guest Pigdog]

Never mind, Torsten's explained what I wanna know, carry on ppl

Torsten da man!

Wira is da man too!

--Pigdog

[waterdragon]

anyway, for those of us who don't know & would like to .....

[Guest Pigdog]

Oh how rude of me

Chimo is a sortta concentrated tobacco extract, with cocoa powder and honey for flavouring, that is placed under the tongue or in the mouth somewhere, and allows you to maintain a nicotine addiction without the health risks of smoking such as Cancer and heart desease.

Recipe for making it is fairly simple:

1. Take a quantity of fresh tobacco leaves, chop em in a pot with some water and boil em for around an hour

2. Strain out the leaves (we don't need these anymore) and chuck em. A futher strain through a fine cloth is also good to remove any extra grit or little bits of leaf matter, but you don't *have* to do this extra strain.

3. Add a small amount of cocoa powder and honey to the liquid (I usually add about 1/2 a teaspoon of each for a medium sized plant) and stir it in a bit.

4. At a low heat, reduce this remaining brown liquid to a paste, but be careful when it starts getting thicker. It'll burn like a motherfucker. I usually just simmer it down to a syrup, then turn the gas on *just* long enuff to warm the syrup, then turn the gas off, then on, then off etc till the moisture's gone and a paste remains.

5. CAREFULLY scrape the paste into a airtight, lighttight container, and mark this container and keep it *AWAY* from children and pets. Remember it it smells like chocolate and nicotine kills. Also remember, that nicotine absorbs through the skin so *don't* just use your hands

Now, the average dose for this stuff is between 1/2 to 2 matchheads depending on strength and your tolerance level to nicotine, but start with just a TINY bit till you know it's strength!.. 1/4 matchhead even if you wanna be on the safe side cos you *can* die from this relatively easily if you misjudge the dose.

I guess you could add other plants to the mix too, I was thinking of adding some catnip, but I couldn't be bothered, but that's how you make it basically.

--Pigdog

[earthalchemist]

so what kind of effects do you get pigdog? or is it just used as a cigarette substitute?

personally i'd rather just kick the nicotine addiction, weather the withdrawals, and get down to the nasty business of conquering the psychological/habitual side of things ... any suggestions there would be greatly appreciated ... substitution not being an acceptable method

[waterdragon]

gracias....my cup runneth over

[Guest Pigdog]

EChemist, effects are the same as smoking I guess, but much stronger, you'd undoubtably end up with a heavier addiction with chimo than with cigarettes, but it's very pleasant tasting, doesn't repel non-smoking girlfriends, and is a damn-site healthier than smoking

Ever tried them 4mg Nicorettes? (yer the strongest ones) .. Tried two? Well it's basically like that, get that pinchy feeling in your throat, and a little warm flushy feeling, and no desire to have a cigarette

There's apparently other psychoactives in natural tobacco that aren't in commercial tobacco, but I can't discern their presence in the chimo. it's just a really strongarse dose of nicotine and it's alot more relaxing too Cossa the strength undoubtably

--Pigdog

[Torsten]

Oh how rude of me

3. Add a small amount of cocoa powder and honey to the liquid (I usually add about 1/2 a teaspoon of each for a medium sized plant) and stir it in a bit.

This is quite a bit of adulterant. It would probably be more than 70 or 80%. Traditionally the adulterant would be no more than 50%.

4. At a low heat, reduce this remaining brown liquid to a paste, but be careful when it starts getting thicker. It'll burn like a motherfucker. I usually just simmer it down to a syrup, then turn the gas on *just* long enuff to warm the syrup, then turn the gas off, then on, then off etc till the moisture's gone and a paste remains.

This is the only step that need MUCH care. Boiling the liquid previously would have never brought it much above 100 degC, no matter how migh you turn the heat, but at this stage it can race to 200 or more in a matter of seconds. Nicotine is fairly stable at 100 degC, but will quickly decompose at higher temps.

Now, the average dose for this stuff is between 1/2 to 2 matchheads depending on strength and your tolerance level to nicotine,

CAREFUL!! Non-smokers can pass out from the low dose. Nicotine has a massive effect on non-smokers and any dosage guidelines should start with the safety dose of a non-smoker. A smoker can probably tolerate dosages more than 10 times those of a non-smoker.

you *can* die from this relatively easily if you misjudge the dose.

Couldn't have said it better myself !!

I guess you could add other plants to the mix too,

Traditionally is contains coca leaves as well, but these are not really available or legal in australia

I was thinking of adding some catnip

It would be best to choose a plant that has its active principle as an alkaloid. Catnip has an essential oil, which will stream distill when boiling the brew, and will also glugg up the paste. Coffee or green tea are good to add to this, and where legal it could also be interesting to add some Catha edulis leaves.

[Ed Dunkel]

Isn't cathinone in Catha edulis quite temperature sensitive?

So I presume you would add it in at the very end?

E D

[Guest Pigdog]

Torsten>This is quite a bit of adulterant.

>It would probably be more than 70 or 80%. >Traditionally the adulterant would be no >more than 50%.

Yer I used only a *tiny* bit of cocoa and honey for the first two batches, but they tastes pretty nasty Like eating non-salted vegemite, if you will

So after making the first lot yesterday (vegemite tasting yes) I still had some left over "juice" that had to be boiled down. So I boiled this down (used the same pot I did the first lot in too so there was still a fair amount of the finnished product from the first in that pot to start with) and I added.. shit, I can't even remember woulda been about 2 teaspoons of honey and 1 heaped of cocoa, and my f#@$ing word it tastes *nice*

It might require 1/2 a mouthful to get the nicotine of the "vegemite" stuff, but fark me does it taste soo much nicer I be pourin this shit on my fuckn icecream it tastes so good

Another Idea is to mix chocolate (yer real cadbury glass & 1 1/2) to it. I can't see any reason why that wouldn't work, and you'd end up with nicotine choclolate

Someone wanna market it with me? we call em "NicoChocs" rofl sorry I am silly

And Ed Dunkel, your seeds are on their way, I finally got to posting em yesterday so keep ya eyes peeled

Also, I'd like to add, although I wasn't inundated with requests for free seeds, at almost $3 cost to me per package, I won't be doing that too often. Torsten or someone else, can you tell me how I can get outta that cheaper?

I don't mind sending a few off those few that's cool, but I can't afford to make a habit of it. can't I just stamp em and slip em in the red-box on the street ?

Bibi

--Pigdog

[Torsten]

Yer I used only a *tiny* bit of cocoa and honey for the first two batches, but they tastes pretty nasty Like eating non-salted vegemite, if you will

LOL. The flavour depends very much on the age of the leaves. Younger leaves are sweeter, but not as strong.

Also, I'd like to add, although I wasn't inundated with requests for free seeds, at almost $3 cost to me per package, I won't be doing that too often. Torsten or someone else, can you tell me how I can get outta that cheaper?

Basically sending single packets is a waste of time and money. This is why we have a $10 order minimum now. Buying padded envelopes in bulk (ie by the mega box size) reduces costs drastically. Also, if you just stick one stamp on it it will usually make it too and saves 49c. As a business we can't take that risk though.

[This message has been edited by Torsten (edited 15 December 2000).]

[Torsten]

Isn't cathinone in Catha edulis quite temperature sensitive?

Yes, but cathine isn't. Cathinone converts to the enol well before you can do any kind of extraction on it. Cathine (nor-ephedrine) however is stable and present in appreciable quantities. This is why khat makes a great morning tea.

So I presume you would add it in at the very end?

No, the hard leaves would dictate putting it in at the beginning.